No, Jimmy. Just no.

Filed in National by on September 12, 2018 30 Comments

Lord knows I love me some Bernie Sanders supporting, Jimmy Carter. But even the best among us are walking around with heads full of DC-based spin and nonsense.

ATLANTA (AP) — Former President Jimmy Carter sees little hope for the U.S. to change its human rights and environmental policies as long as Donald Trump is in the White House, but he has a warning for his fellow Democrats looking to oust the current administration: Don’t go too far to the left.

“Independents need to know they can invest their vote in the Democratic Party,” Carter said Tuesday during his annual report at his post-presidential center and library in Atlanta, where he offered caution about the political consequences should Democrats “move to a very liberal program, like universal health care.”

That’s delicate — and, Carter acknowledged, even contradictory — advice coming from the 93-year-old former president, and it underscores the complicated political calculations for Democrats as they prepare for the November midterms and look ahead to the 2020 presidential election.

“Rosie and I voted for Bernie Sanders in the past,” Carter noted.

I can forgive a 94 year old for not realizing that there are no real “Independents” but I can’t forgive any you bastards reading this right now for not realizing it.

That goes for you to Senator Carper. I know you are reading this. Don’t lie.

About the Author ()

Jason330 is a deep cover double agent working for the GOP. Don't tell anybody.

Comments (30)

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  1. bamboozer says:

    Sorry Jimbo, Universal Healthcare is anything but far left. It’s a way to decrease fear, misery, death and the tens of thousands of medical bankruptcies that occur each year. And it’s been proven to save money, many times at that. The reason we don’t have it is the corruption of both parties by the monied interests making a killing from healthcare and drugs. And like all too often that’s both parties. Chris and Tom, looking at you.

  2. A says:

    So wait… did he admit that he voted for Bernie Sanders in the primary against Clinton?

  3. RE Vanella says:

    Yes. He’s said it before.

  4. Dan says:

    Carter is at least the second best ex-president in history, and most likely the best. (The only other contender in this category is John Quincy Adams.). The man has literally (in the correct sense of that word, not the ESPN announcer sense) eradicated two human diseases. You can Google it.

    But he’s not and has never been progressive or liberal.

  5. jason330 says:

    Here he is talking strategy (not politics) and he is flat wrong. FLAT. WRONG.

  6. Liberal Elite says:

    “…and he is flat wrong.”

    Not obvious. He’s arguing for a two-step process rather than trying to do it all at once.

    Slaying the beast and reaching for the golden ring of universal healthcare are two different things.

    If you really think he’s wrong, then tell us how the fight for universal healthcare improves our chances to get rid of Trump? I just don’t see it.

  7. Alby says:

    Turn it around: How does the fight for universal health care harm our chances to get rid of Trump? How many voters do you think hate Trump but will vote for him anyway just to avoid universal health care? Because that’s what he and your are arguing — that there are people revolted by Trump who would vote for him anyway if the alternative is radical health care reform. I’m sure there are people like that, but I think you could fit them all into a modestly sized coffee shop.

  8. Jason330 says:

    There is a huge cost associated with chasing the mythical “center” for Democrats.

    That people like Liberal Elite STILL don’t understand that cost yet is hard to imagine. …unless…. Liberal Elite’s livelihood depends on not understanding the costs. In that case it makes sense.

    • Alby says:

      I have an instinctive aversion to the line of reasoning that these people always use: Some people — not me, but some people — will be scared off by calls for one liberal policy or another. This is bullshit. They mean they themselves are scared of the proposal, and are simply projecting that fear onto a bunch of “other people.”

      Most people can’t really identify their own reasons for the positions they hold let alone predict the reasoning of others.

      What they’re saying is that people are frightened of change. By that logic, we should never change anything — which is the position that used to be called conservatism.

  9. RE Vanella says:

    The “center” isn’t a compromise without the left. Never forget this.

  10. Liberal Elite says:

    @J “…unless…. Liberal Elite’s livelihood depends on not understanding the costs.”

    Nope. Not one bit.

    “They mean they themselves are scared of the proposal…”

    Nope. I’d love to see universal healthcare. But frankly, I see that as a longer term effort.

    “Turn it around: How does the fight for universal health care harm our chances to get rid of Trump?”

    What I wouldn’t want to see is the idea go around that we need to get rid of Trump because… Universal Healthcare!
    That’s only one small reason… There are many many more.

    So… Go ahead. Tie these two separate activities together in a tight knot. It’s a fool’s game.

  11. Alby says:

    “Nope. I’d love to see universal healthcare. But frankly, I see that as a longer term effort.”

    The issue is talking about it in terms of the next election. In the short term, you’re either calling for it now or you’re not. “Eventually” is mush.

    Again, if you’re saying we shouldn’t talk about that because it will hurt our chances in the election, you’ll have to explain how.

    “What I wouldn’t want to see is the idea go around that we need to get rid of Trump because… Universal Healthcare!
    That’s only one small reason… There are many many more.”

    So you think the candidates should go around talking about Trump instead of universal healthcare? Yes, they are two different things. Yet the common centrist wisdom that’s being addressed is the notion that calling for universal health care now, instead of incrementally, will throw votes to the Republicans. I don’t believe there’s a shred of evidence of that being the case.

    If that’s your position, you’re going to have to defend it better than with an absolutist straw man like the quote above. Nobody is going around saying that.

  12. RE Vanella says:

    Liberal Elite’s politics are trash.

    Trump is a symptom. We want to address the disease.

  13. Liberal Elite says:

    @A “If that’s your position”

    No. My position is JC’s. We should focus on driving trump and all the trumpets out of office and then work on healthcare.

    If you fail to do step #1, there’s no way in hell we’ll do step #2.

    …and talking about #2 isn’t going to help all that much, before you do #1.

    Instead, talk about the things that will actually help you achieve step #1 in a big way, and I don’t think that’s talking about healthcare.

  14. Liberal Elite says:

    @REV “Liberal Elite’s politics are trash.”

    No. What’s trash is hopeless idealism disconnected from reality.

  15. RE Vanella says:

    Total garbage.

  16. Alby says:

    “I don’t think that’s talking about healthcare.”

    Yet many polls show that among voters’ top concerns.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnzogby/2018/08/01/majority-wants-government-involved-in-health-care-coverage/#2b36125b3c5f

    What do you want to talk about? Trump? Won’t work any better now than it did when Hillary ran on it. Voters want to know what you’re for, not what you’re against. Everybody assumes you’re against Trump if you’re not Republican. You can’t win by stating the obvious.

    Or do you want to do the normal centrist thing and say nothing because you intend to keep on screwing the people indefinitely while saying over and over, “Not yet.”? When will you folks learn that playing it safe is how you lost everything Democrats once controlled?

    Seriously, I’m at a loss for how you intend to accomplish step 1 if that’s the only step you intend to tell people about, because more of Carperite/corporate rule isn’t getting me off the couch.

    • Alby says:

      “talking about #2 isn’t going to help all that much, before you do #1.”

      I disagree, and strongly. You have nothing to support that statement. See above — it’s the issue that causes people the most economic worries even in this economy. In what way does supporting universal health care scare those folks into Republicans’ arms?

  17. Liberal Elite says:

    @A “it’s the issue that causes people the most economic worries even in this economy. In what way does supporting universal health care scare those folks into Republicans’ arms?”

    You just don’t understand why we don’t already have single payer. Have you noticed that every time the issue comes up, the corporate rent seekers employ racist dogwhistles to shoot it down. It’s always undeserved black people getting free stuff, or undeserved hispanics getting free stuff. When you get to the bottom of it, THAT is the main reason we pay nearly triple what every other country in the word pays for healthcare, and yet we still have crappy healthcare. That also was the most effective way that the GOP slammed Obamacare… dogwhistles.

    If you really want to work at getting rid of Trump and all the trumpites, going after this kind of racism may not be all that helpful. It’s been hammered in and it’s deep seated… There are other issues where Trump is vulnerable that don’t carry that racist baggage. There are other issues where people are not so willing to vote against their own best interest.

    Yes. Healthcare is the real fight. But let’s get rid of Trump first.

    • Alby says:

      You keep saying “get rid of Trump first” as if talking about health care prevents it. It doesn’t.

      How do you propose to get rid of him? By talking about nothing else?

  18. Jason330 says:

    I’m done with you and Democrats like you.
    You are an idiot or getting paid.
    I stand by my observation.
    Fuck off to Blue Delaware.
    Your politics are shit.

  19. Liberal Elite says:

    @J “Your politics are shit.”

    And that’s your problem. You ACTUALLY think this is just about politics and political perspective.

    Look… I would really like Jimmy Carter to be wrong about this. We all would. But all the wishing in the world is not going to make him wrong.

    Your response shows that you are so wrapped up in you political mindset that you’ve resorted to shallow minded thinking… just like your worst opponents.

    “Fuck off to Blue Delaware.”

    No thanks… Never posted there.
    But you need to decide what kind of site you want to have here.
    When you post stupid stuff… When you’re actually wrong about something…
    Do you want to be told? Or is this a fantasy site?

  20. Liberal Elite says:

    @A “How do you propose to get rid of him?”

    I didn’t propose anything. That wasn’t the point of the thread. I just explained why I thought that Jimmy Carter wasn’t wrong, and I tried to back that up with some analysis and reasoning.

    I think it falls on you and others whose shallow analysis was only as deep as “Total garbage” or “FLAT. WRONG.” to actually think harder and justify their specious claims.

    Oh… And try to not conflate strategy and politics as Jason rightly points out, but then utterly fails to practice:
    @J “Here he is talking strategy (not politics)…”
    @J “Your politics are shit.”

  21. Jason330 says:

    Your strategy is also shit, you dunce. If you don’t get that by now you are to thick to bother with.

  22. jason330 says:

    Look. I don’t have the time or inclination to hand hold idiots, and walk them through why chasing “the middle” is a perenial loser for Democrats. The evidence is everywhere and if you are still thinking that democrats risk defeat by being “too liberal” – you are simply an idiot who cannot (for whatever reason) grasp reality.

    I’m done. Get that weak shit out of here.

  23. Liberal Elite says:

    I don’t see how this has much to do with “chasing the middle”. It has FAR more to do with racism.

    Do you really think that going after Trump by pointing out, over and over again, that he’s a racist will help defeat him??

    Trump’s strength exists primarily because he is a racist, and he feeds into racial and xenophobic fears. He brings out the worst instincts in Americans. He used just that strategy to attack Obamacare.

    The entire lingering populace resistance to Obamacare is highly racist in nature.

    You don’t fight racism head-on with logic and reasoning. You squash it like a bug.
    The first step of the strategy should be to make Trump toxic.

  24. jason330 says:

    You know what? I was going to ban you for trolling, but your flailing stupidity speaks for itself.

  25. RE Vanella says:

    The moniker wine mom will be retired. Forthwith all shall use the sobriquet “Praxis Patty” when referring to Liberal Elite.

    Her material strategy for politocal change is incredibly nuanced and strong. Multifaceted and well-reasoned.

  26. Alby says:

    “I didn’t propose anything.”

    Yes you did. You endorsed what JC proposed, which was not talking about health care. Why not?

    Where is the evidence that talking about universal health care will drive even a single voter into the GOP’s arms? If JC were to visit the site I’d ask the same thing of him.

    If you endorse stupidity, you’re going to have to explain why you’re endorsing it.

  27. Liberal Elite says:

    @A “Yes you did.”

    There a big difference between endorsing and proposing. I didn’t propose anything. But since you challenge, I’ll try.
    Consider five pieces:

    “Democrats (Wistfully) Take Aim at a Republican Stronghold: Evangelicals”
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/14/us/politics/democrats-progessive-evangelical-election.html
    This seems like a really good idea. Why not appeal to their better angels? There’s a lot to dislike with the morals that Trump projects. And the young evangelicals are particularly susceptible to dogma challenge. And that might open up the prospect of new discussions within those families.
    Or another way to put it… Ignoring that voting block seems like a really bad idea.

    Of course, Jason might dismiss that as “chasing the middle”, but they’re not really chasing them. They’re undercutting Trump’s support. It’s enough just to get them disgusted enough to stay home and not vote. Remember that Roy Moore lost because his weaker supporters just stayed home. They didn’t cross over and vote for the Dem. We need to make the evangelicals weaker supporters stay home.

    And how about this:

    “Trump administration took nearly $10 million from FEMA’s budget to support ICE, documents show”
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/09/11/femas-budget-cut-10-million-support-ice-documents-show/1274723002/
    Pin all the Hurricane deaths on Trump’s malfeasance. Botching Katrina really hurt GWBush. This is much much worse. Make Trump pay…
    Do the voters know that the FEMA warehouses in PR were empty because the funds were diverted (stolen)?? Why not run on better emergency management?

    Or this:

    “The Looting of America’s Public Lands”
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/09/opinion/sunday/looting-americas-public-lands.html
    This is very unpopular. Why not run against it?

    Or how about this:

    “Researchers warn a common air pollutant is a driver of dementia, even at levels below current EPA standards”
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2018/09/05/researchers-warn-that-common-air-pollutant-is-driver-dementia-even-levels-below-current-epa-standards/
    Older people are terrified of dementia. Why not play on those fears.

    Or this:

    “Republicans’ health-care suicide mission”
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2018/09/06/republicans-health-care-suicide-mission/
    If you really want to hurt the GOP on healthcare, do it this way!!

    I can put provide a lot more, if really needed. But I think I make my point.

    And on the other side… Pushing for single payer right now seems like a really bad idea… Consider this bit:
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/correction-election-2018-kentucky-ads-story/2018/09/14/6c92cda6-b85d-11e8-ae4f-2c1439c96d79_story.html
    “…the consequences of “Amy McGrath’s single-payer Socialist plan,” which would cost “$32 trillion,” ‘’double your federal taxes” and end “Medicare as we know it.””

    Do we really want to try to explain to ignorant voters that total healthcare costs would go down in face of that FUD campaign?? How about we elect people like Amy McGrath, and then work on single payer.

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