March 16 Open Thread: Go to Jail. Go Directly to Jail.

Filed in National, Open Thread by on March 16, 2018

The Mueller investigation passed Go and collected $200 yesterday, when it was revealed that Mueller has subpoenaed documents from the Trump Organization. I think Mueller is moving slowly to give the feds time to build a new prison. They’ll need one to hold all the Trumpkins who’ll be spending time there.

The reason Republicans won’t move against Trump? My guess involves the link between Russian arms manufacturers, the NRA and the candidates it supports. Indications are that millions in Russian money went to the NRA, which used it as part of the $50 million-plus it spent on elections in 2016. Congressional Democrats suspect that, too. In short, Trump wasn’t the only American Russia helped put in office.

Of all the shitstain Republicans who have fucked up this country for the past 25 years, none has caused more damage than serial adulterer and prominent moron-who-thinks-he’s-smart Newt Gingrich. He’s at it again, helping identify State Department employees he wants purged from government service.

Speaking of Speakers of the House, the current one, Nancy Pelosi, has been taking a drubbing over Conor Lamb’s vow not to support her. That rhetoric might work in elections, but it’s stupid politics for one simple reason: she’s really good at her job, which is keeping Democrats in line. Or would progressives prefer the alternative — Ohio’s Tim Ryan, a right-wing Democrat just like Conor Lamb.

Despite all the anti-Trump/Republican trends afoot these days, California Democrats have figured out a way to destroy their advantage. The state several years ago went from party primaries to open primaries in which the top two finishers, regardless of party, advance to the final election. This easily-gamed system is, naturally, being gamed. In a primary with, say, 8 Democrats and 2 Republicans, it’s most likely the 2 Republicans who will advance to the final election. This is vastly complicating efforts to flip seats like the one being vacated by Darrell Issa.

From the Wonders of Libertarianism files: A Libertarian candidate in Michigan wants to arm homeless people because they face so much danger on the streets. This is why they call it Michissippi, and it’s also why Libertarians can’t have nice things.

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  1. delacrat says:

    “…she’s[Pelosi} really good at her job, which is keeping Democrats in line.” -alby

    Keeping Democrats in line for the benefit of those who bankroll the GOP cost the “in-line” Democrats the House and why Tim Ryan’s got her Speaker’s job .

  2. Alby says:

    You have not demonstrated anything close to causation to support your thesis, the second half of which is a prediction, not a fact.

    You’re out of your depth here, sonny. Go cuckoo for cocoa puffs somewhere else.

  3. Jason330 says:

    I don’t know I think he/she(?) makes a good point. Look at where the Democrats are in terms of having a coherent message now vs 2007 when she was elected Speaker.

    Pretty shitty in 2007 and still shitty.

  4. Alby says:

    Messaging is not her job. The speaker’s job is delivering votes. That’s why everybody in Washington says Paul Ryan is “not doing his job.” With a majority, he should never have to negotiate with Democrats.

    Democrats have historically been more likely to split from the party’s positions, because in the old days the House contained more people like Conor Lamb. Remember, Democrats used to include Dixiecrats. Keeping together a caucus that represents a diverse group of constituencies is harder than she makes it look.

    I’m in total agreement with you about the Democrats’ problems, but I rank them differently from you. She’s not among my top 5, or maybe even 10.

    Pelosi is not ideal but, given the lack of a progressive alternative and the presence of a more conservative one, it’s not in the progressive interest to depose her. YMMV.

  5. delacrat says:

    ” The speaker’s job is delivering votes.” – alby

    After anti-war voters turned against the R’s and returned Congress to the D’s, I’ll grant you Pelosi delivered the votes to the war industry when her “in-line” Democrats continued to fund the Iraq war.

    Pelosi delivered the “in-line” Democrat votes to the health insurance rackets in getting the Affordable(it ain’t) Care Act through.

    Like Jason said, “Pretty shitty” don’t you think?

  6. Alby says:

    Are we pretending you’re serious? You are then admitting your problem is with the Democratic agenda, not Pelosi. Try to stick to the subject, if your algorithm will let you.

    It’s her job to deliver the votes no matter the subject, so your approach is a total failure. You don’t like the Democrats? Fine. But your simple-minded bot approach is shallow and obvious.

    “Pelosi delivered the “in-line” Democrat votes to the health insurance rackets in getting the Affordable(it ain’t) Care Act through.”

    You consider that a loss? You never have anything bad to say about Trump, though. That’s how we can tell you’re a bot.

    If you’re not getting paid for this, you’re wasting your “talents.”

  7. Ben says:

    I think the narrative that we have to throw out the “old guard” will clash with her sticking around. We are (rightfully, fight me) praising high school students… many of whom were born AFTER she became the party leader. If the dems try to make themselves the exception to the rule that a new generation has to take control, they will pay for it with yet another apathetic generation who thinks (knows) neither party gives a shit about them.

  8. Alby says:

    This “narrative” matters to a microscopic number of people.

    The Speaker of the House plays a role in national elections only because the Republican Party has spent years demonizing her. Many of the same Republicans despise their own Speaker, too. Don’t let these assholes (and bots like “delacrat”) set the agenda for you. Don’t be a sap.

  9. delacrat says:

    It’s her job to deliver the votes no matter the subject,….” – alby

    She delivered the votes to the war industry and health insurance rackets, not the anti-war and pro-single payer voters who returned her party to Congressional control. You call that a victory, rational people call that a betrayal.

  10. Alby says:

    She delivered the votes for the agenda of the president, who was of her party. She does not set the agenda. The president does.

    Let’s see you call out Trump. Right now.

    This is your “prove you’re not a bot” moment. Flunk and you’re gone.

  11. Alby says:

    “the anti-war and pro-single payer voters who returned her party to Congressional control. ”

    This assertion is not backed up by evidence. Those people already voted and vote Democratic; certainly they did at the time. It was moderates who returned Congress to the Democrats, as evidenced by the fact that they were picked off by Republicans when the tide turned.

    You are not entitled to your own facts.

  12. Alby says:

    When you get the chance, you work against a Dan Lipinski. As I said, you don’t replace Pelosi until you have something better.

  13. spktruth says:

    Nancy Pelosi is a $48Million, millionaire! She never stood for Medicare for All, and she never was against the Iraq War…she is just another center right demorat..whose time is at end. The newly elected DNC tried desperately to get the center right dems to support what the majority of americans want…she refused. Screw her…she is kept only because she is a “great fundraiser”. Bernie PROVED you don’t need corporate america to run for President. There is a huge rift between those corporate dems and the progressives trying to get them to support the issues the majority of americans polled want.

  14. Alby says:

    You failed the test. Buh-bye.

  15. puck says:

    Pelosi delivered two of Obama’s signature progressive agenda items to the Senate, where Obama sent Biden around to scuttle them (public option health bill, middle-class only tax cuts).

  16. RE Vanella says:

    Let the guy shit on Pelosi. I agree it’s a little melodramatic and silly, but is she really beyond reproach?

    She doesn’t endorse Medicare for all. She is a corporatist. We can’t critique that? You don’t think there’s evidence to support this criticism? I do.

  17. puck says:

    No doubt. The thing is though, if your critique of Pelosi gains traction, you will probably get someone to the right of her.

  18. RE Vanella says:

    I disagree regarding what I’d “probably get”.

    Political fear-mongering it seems like. We can’t do better only worse so be happy with what you get.

    If the argument gains traction and more people are convinced by it how do you figure that move discourse right? Doesn’t follow.

  19. puck says:

    Criticisms from the left will be lumped together with criticisms from the right and both will weaken Pelosi. And there is less support for a progressive replacement than for a centrist replacement.

    It’s like back when the Obamacare bill had a 50% -plus disapproval rating, but it turned out that more than 10% of that was from liberals who disapproved because it wasn’t liberal enough.

    Pelosi should keep her job as long as the Dem caucus is willing to elect her. We should focus our criticisms on our own corporatist Congress-critters.

  20. RE Vanella says:

    I have no position on whether Pelosi should keep her position or not.

    The idea that all criticism is the same and achieves the same ends is an idea I don’t get down with.

  21. Alby says:

    The guy shitting on Pelosi isn’t about Pelosi, it’s about the guy.

    He posts at That Other Site as well, and never — and I do mean never — has a single word of criticism for Republicans. He’s not just a troll, he’s there to promote fighting among liberals. Whether he’s paid to do it or not is immaterial to me, though I suspect not to him.

    I gave him a very simple test — say something negative about Trump. Anything would have done. He instead gave a reason that boiled down to “I only post here to annoy you.” It’s like Trump with Russia — if he won’t say something, anything derogatory, something ain’t right.

    This isn’t a courtroom, and it’s not a democracy. It was as simple a test as I could devise to determine his motives. He failed.

    As for Pelosi, I think I’ve made myself clear: Replace her when you have a better alternative. Right now all the alternatives are worse. I don’t like Hillary, either, but I voted for her when there were no better alternatives on offer.

  22. RE Vanella says:

    Ah, I limit trips to the Blue safety zone. They put up with criticism of Saint Nancy over there?

  23. spktruth says:

    Pelosi helped get the Corporate health bill passed opposed to Medicare for all. She did vote for the Iraq war…what test?

  24. puck says:

    “Pelosi helped get the Corporate health bill passed opposed to Medicare for all.”

    Medicare for all was never on the table. Pelosi sent ACA with public option to the Senate. Only after Obama and Biden refused to fight for it (Carper helped kill it in committee) did she help with the corporatist version Obama and Biden were willing to support.

  25. Alby says:

    @spk: The test was that he had to say something negative about Trump. He wouldn’t. Don’t worry, I know you, and I know how you feel about Trump. You’re on the up and up. I strongly suspect he’s not.

    To remind everyone of the phrase that set this off, Pelosi is good at her job, which is keeping her caucus together. That’s it. That’s the claim, and none of her critics here have assailed it. Challenging Pelosi’s positions on issues is not what the linked article is about, and it’s not what my claim is about.

    You can hate Pelosi, you can point to anything you like to prove your point, and I won’t take issue with it. I will, however, question the need to sound off on a point as uncontroversial as the one I made. If the very mention of her name triggers you, maybe the problem isn’t with Pelosi but with you. There are lots of sites that will eagerly lap up your criticisms. Most of them are on the right.

    “Pelosi is part of the Democratic establishment” is a statement so obvious that one questions anyone’s need to assert it here.