Al Franken Accused Of Groping (With Photo)
A woman who was on a USO Tour with Al Franken, then entertainer, now senator, claims that he groped her and made her uncomfortable during the tour. The photo, if indeed it wasn’t consensual, leaves little doubt:
We’ve clearly entered a new and, IMHO, utterly necessary phase of our discussion on sexual harassment.
It may make a mess of things for awhile, but it will ultimately be for the better of us all.
Agreed. But I wonder if all the conservatives calling on Franken to resign are going to force Moore from his race first.
And this swimsuit model and military wife seems to fit the mold of the “politically motivated” complaints that conservatives are looking so hard for in the Moore case.
As I always say, they only accuse others of what they themselves are guilty of. Let them call “hypocrisy” once they get that beam out of their own eyes.
What kind of feel are you going to get over a kevlar vest? If that picture hadn’t been snapped, I doubt the victim would have even known about the event.
He still would have forcibly kissed her.
Seems materially less awful than cruising the mall for high school girls, but YMMV.
If we’re going to purge the Senate of anyone who’s ever committed sexual harassment, we won’t be able to get a quorum. I’m all for it, but just sayin’.
This is what political motivation looks like.
Sure enough, the woman has been a guest on Hannity, as opposed to the single “politically motived” woman in Alabama who is under suspicion for being a Democrat.
Same offense, different severity. Not that conservatives will notice.
For the record, most of the comments at Daily Kos call for Franken to resign immediately.
It makes me want to scream that this will hopefully end Franken’s career, but Moore will still win and Dump will still be president. Fuck republicans. Every last one.
Yeah, I’m gonna have to see more before I pull the trigger on Franken. I remember ACORN. They get Democrats to react before all the facts are in all the time, and I have to factor the Hannity guesting into this as well.
Conservative media says there’s a second accuser, which will add weight to this accusation.
I have a hard time giving credence to a swimsuit model’s feelings of vulnerability, or frankly giving a shit about them. Rhythmically admired indeed. I’m certainly not going to waste my sympathy on someone who objectifies herself and then wonders why others objectify her.
What other facts?
Um… what about being a swimsuit model makes it hard to give credence to feelings of vulnerability? cloths aren’t consent.
Any other facts.
I’m sure they’re real feelings, or might be. I just don’t give a shit about them.
I dislike swimsuit models. All models, really. I dislike the sexualization of everything in our culture, and she made a nice living at displaying all but the tiniest bit of her naughty bits. If she really cared about the objectification of women she wouldn’t have made a living off people ogling her body.
And before you accuse me, yes, I’m a misogynist. No, I don’t think people should resign over this sort of thing. I don’t even think Moore should resign. Let the people decide.
Did you see the way she was dressed? she was asking for it!!!!
“Clothes aren’t consent.”
Nope. But my comment wasn’t about consent. It was about my judgment of the legitimacy of her “feelings.”
I frankly don’t gives a shit about anyone else’s feelings, for the simple reason that nobody gives a shit about mine. So we’re all even.
@Arthur: As I said to Ben, it’s not about consent. It’s about how upset she claims to be.
must be a generational thing. How DARE women show their bodies if they dont want to get molested.
No, it has nothing to do with being molested. It’s about how she made her living and her claim of feeling “violated.”
If you don’t understand what I’m saying, think harder.
She made a good living by objectifying herself. That doesn’t make her fodder for molestation. It makes her a hypocrite.
Then you shouldnt have a problem with Trump. most of the women he molested were models also.
How does it make her a hypocrite?
She is fine with people looking at her… after makeup and lighting make her feel comfortable and she gets paid for it.
Full stop.
Getting groped in your sleep, or having some sweaty old man contractually obligate you to french him isnt part of the deal. Models, sex workers, etc… those who you look down on for “selling their bodies’ have to deal with this “shes asking for it” crap all the time.
I have noticed, though… that the guys who are getting squishy about this are the ones with something to worry about.
“If you don’t understand what I’m saying, think harder.”
ok, cassandra_m
Try reading it again. Any of the women he molested who were beauty pageant contestants were hypocrites too. As are feminists who make a living showing skin. That doesn’t mean they’re fair game, it means I doubt them when they talk about their feelings.
I’m pretty sure you can understand what I’m saying if you try.
“Most” of the women. I guess the others don’t count? So again, you seem like the kind of conservative who spends his days looking for hypocrisy among liberals, as if hypocrisy wasn’t rampant among all humans. Get a life.
The number of accusers also plays a role. When the second one comes forward — conservative sites say there is another coming, and I’m sure you can find dozens of incidents if you go back to his comedy career in the ’70s and ’80s — then we’ll talk.
Until then, I remember ACORN, and I know how conservatives play this “gotcha” game. Let the lemmings react immediately. I’ll take my time.
@Ben: You’re still missing it. Probably a generational thing. They don’t teach you kids critical thinking.
It doesn’t excuse molestation. It doesn’t make Franken not wrong. I’m saying I doubt her motivations for coming forward. I’m pointing out that she, much more than any of the accusers of Moore, seems to have a political motivation. And so I’m not going to jump on the “Franken must resign” bandwagon.
You are trying to prove something about Moore by turning immediately on Franken. It won’t work, because hypocrisy is not something Republicans care about avoiding. They’re proud of it.
I. Remember. ACORN.
Pretty shitty accusation there at the end, kiddo. Don’t be a dick.
They “have to” sell their bodies? How would that work without male demand for the service?
I understand what you’re trying to say. Ive heard many men say it.
But i have also heard what women in these lines of work have to say and, sorry, bru… you’re wrong here. You can keep saying it, keep trying to throw insults when you dont feel understood (i know you consider yourself little more than a chimp with a smartphone) but it doesnt make you right.
I remember ACORN too. I also remember Anthony Weiner.
It’s hard when “one of the good ones” turns out to be awful… It helps to form no emotional attachment to politicians. I like them as long as they are advancing my ideals. The instant they stop, throw em in the trash.
Let my see if i can summarize. You seem to agree that it is wrong to grope a model, but she is also wrong for being upset at being groped.. If she thinks one may look, she should also be ok with touching? Is that it? explain, im a dumb kid.
What does what women say have to do with what I think of them for their career choices? I doubt they know or care what I think.
There is no “wrong.” There’s a disagreement, and you have to be right. That doesn’t make me “wrong” except in your head.
Why are you so insulted? I responded to the generational crack you made. You’re the one who said I probably had something to hide. I made no such accusation toward you.
Now answer my question: How does a woman (or man) selling her body work if there are no men to pay for it?
Lest you think the answers are socio-economic, look up prostitution in antiquity.
No, it’s not “wrong” of her to be upset. I’m saying I doubt her credibility. I have no way to check on it, but just because she says she’s upset doesn’t mean I have to believe that part. Given her politics, I get out my salt shaker.
Give me 24 hours and another victim and I’ll agree he should leave. Given the drug-soaked history of SNL in the still-sexist ’70s and ’80s, I’m sure there are more photos out there.
But as I said, and nobody seems to get — I remember ACORN. Let’s give the rest of the media time to check this out. This isn’t the WaPo report on Moore, heavily reported with 4 victims. This is a USO photograph shorn of context with one person’s word and memory against his lack thereof — and even that has drawn condemnation already.
I’m not saying she’s lying. I’m saying I’m not going to respond by jerking my knee.
If you don’t remember ACORN very well, look it up. Democrats acted before all the facts were in and lost one of their best GOTV tools doing so. I know of no awards for being the first to call for his resignation. All it shows is an unwillingness to ditch a Manicean view.
The connection isn’t between her choice of career and molestation. It’s between her choice of career and my sympathy for her.
Do you think men are the only ones who pay sex workers.
Fine.. sorry about the stupid “have something to hide crack” that was too far. I stand by the generational thing, in that attitudes toward sex workers and models are much more open and understanding among people my age. You seem to think they dont have a right to get upset because they are already putting their body on display.
I think that is .. well, wrong. What about any other profession? Being a model requires work to meet our insane beauty standards. Why do they owe you a feel when all you paid for is a glance?
Any emotional attachment I have to Al Franken dates back to SNL. He got much less funny when he took up politics, even as an author.
Weiner showed himself a serial pervert. When Franken is shown to have done the same, I’ll condemn him.
Oh, I don’t think they owe men anything. I just find it odd that someone doing that wouldn’t feel objectified until someone touches them when they are engaging in self-objectification for a living.
I’ve been around a long time, Ben. I save my sympathy on the sex-worker scene for the millions who are forced into it, such as this girl.
I totally get what Alby is saying.
You dont get it, That’s fine. Would you like to attempt to get it?
How about a different vocation. Maybe… baseball player. Cliff Lee doesnt want you throwing a baseball at him and demanding to have a catch just because he loves getting paid to play baseball.
You are allowed to watch him play… you can pay extra to do in in person (let’s say like a strip club) or from the privacy of your couch.. (get it?) but you arent invited to initiate a catch just because he’s ok with throwing to Ruiz. got it?
some player references may be outdated as i swore off following sports-ball long ago.
Ben, please…this isn’t about them GIVING men anything. They owe men NOTHING. I’m not demanding anything of them.
I’m condemning them for taking up professions that continue the essential problem with American life, the use of sexual urges to sell anything and everything. Nobody takes up swimsuit modeling because they think it’s a hard life (which it is, but they don’t know it yet). They do it for the easy money. Same with college girls who work as escorts. I understand they need money, but I have a hard time believing it doesn’t harden them to the ways men degrade women. There are just as many molesters in the photography trade as any other that trades in women’s flesh. I find it hard to believe she hadn’t heard tales of it.
For that matter, why do you think they try to scoop up models during puberty? It’s not just their look. They are usually unwise in the ways of the world, and to the girl — and quite often her parents — it seems like easy money.
All of this is related to my doubts about the victim. The forced kiss part is definitely sexual assault, so if it happened as she said it did, it’s serious. I simply find it hard to believe she was shocked, shocked.
Here’s Franken’s full statement: He’s calling for the ethics committee to investigate him.
Maybe she wasnt shocked at the time. There are so many women in my circle of awareness who, in light of the #metoo phenomenon, are realizing things they just wrote off as “normal” were actually predatory behavior.
With age comes wisdom and you are allowed to look back at something and say “ya know.. that was not ok” That I am aware of, she isnt pressing charges or looking for money. She is just shining a light on an action that was not ok. It sucks because he is a damn good senator and major progressive voice, but there are others.
I m glad he is calling for an ethics committee investigation. It is more than any GOPer would do.
Guess I’m just not an absolutist. If Alabama wants to elect Roy Moore, that’s fine with me. If Minnesota wants Franken, that’s fine with me.
It’s more important to know who a person is than what he’s done.
If Roy Moore felt safe enough to say, “You know, I now realize what I did was sleazy and wrong,” sort of the way Franken did, would that change your view of him? I don’t know if it would mine, either, I’m just asking. But as it is, I’m inclined not to trust him because he has denied it.
I noticed that Franken’s statement made reference to the “many things” he did that I’m sure will now be dredged up from the SNL days. I’ve read a couple of books about that, and nobody can deny that comedy’s “new generation” of that time was as sexist as the generations before it.
Hindsight is not 20/20 — we just look at it through corrective lenses. That Thomas Jefferson owned slaves doesn’t make the Declaration of Independence an invalid document. It only makes him a hypocrite.
As one might expect the kneejerks at Blue Delaware want Franken’s immediate resignation.
So does Mark Joseph Stern at Slate, but at least he’s willing to admit that he doesn’t give a fuck about anything other than his own and Democrats’ “credibility” on the issue (as if Bill Clinton demonstrated nothing).
The drophead says it all: “Democrats’ credibility on sexual harassment is at stake”. You know what’s hypocritical? Claiming it’s all about the women when it’s really all about the political optics.
You want to know why you lose so many elections? This. You let conservatives dictate the battlefield every time.
The victim has a more mature response than most Democrats:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/tweeden-i-was-afraid-to-speak-up-at-time
This gives her more credibility with me, because it’s clear she wasn’t as shocked as SJWs are.
Honesty, people. I just want some honesty. And that includes dropping the moral superiority posing contests some people think constitutes liberalism.
unfortunately, the first thing i think in all these situations is Duke Lacrosse
That’s why I object to the meme “We must believe the women.” I object to the verb, as it turns this into a command. I reserve the right to judge each case on its merits, crazy as that may seem to many liberals.
Along those line my Philadelphia cop friend told me about the time they ran a sting in which they reported a non-existent SEPTA bus accident. More than 200 people claimed to have been aboard. I don’t know if that’s apocryphal, but it certainly speaks to the human behavior cops see all too much of.
“unfortunately, the first thing i think in all these situations is Duke Lacrosse”
That is unfortunate. You shouldnt let one instance cloud your entire thought process. Women have been getting assaulted long before Rolling Stone ran their story.
No, but we shouldnt believe everything said before any real facts are actually uncovered. the accused isnt guilty just becuase they have been accused
My interest here isn’t what Franken did anymore. It’s what incredible dupes liberals are.
You realize, I hope, that if you weren’t so quick to demand Moore resign from his race you wouldn’t have to call for Franken to resign immediately.
The reason you’re in a pickle is that instead of just saying Moore was a sleaze and that’s who the conservatives are, and seeing what the voters decided, you demanded his resignation from the race. You politicized it, so they politicized this. Your own moralistic posturing has bitten you in the ass.
If every man with a picture like this in his past were forced to resign immediately, America would have 50 million job openings tomorrow. It’s an incredibly ignorant, dumbass demand.
It’s also a big reason why Democrats lose elections. Nobody wants to be governed by a bunch of moral tightasses who police everyone’s behavior. Oh, wait, Republicans do, but only when it comes to abortion.
The interesting thing is what will happen over the next 20 years when its comes to visual proof of what future politicians have done. In todays world of everyone photographing and documenting everything, if someone wants to run for office they better make sure now that they never do any kind of social media. because every single 20 something today has posted something that will reflect negatively on them
To me the photograph is much less damning than the forced kissing and retaliation after she rejected him. That’s assault. The photo is a dumb, bad joke — you can’t feel anything through the ceramic plates in a flak jacket. I think that’s what the joke was supposed to be. Like a lot of snapshots, you had to be there.
I want someone to ask the photographer if he or she laughed.
Hey Alby, will you do me a favor and shut the fuck up please. You don’t need to write a 5 paragraph essay in response to this. Just stop posting. Log off.
Why should I do you a favor? Did someone force you to read it?
What a fucking gross post. It shouldn’t be hard for you to just believe victims, especially when there’s photographic evidence
I told’ja it was gonna be messy.
But the photo is a comedian mugging for the camera while pretending to cop a feel through a KEVLAR vest. A bad joke. Worthy of being tossed out of the Senate? As Alby said, can we wait 24 hours and see if there’s anything else?
If Franken isnt forced out, it will kill any hope of Moore getting expelled. You are forgetting to adjust the offensces for dem/gop.
And you think this sucks? Just wait until everyone is reminded that ol grandpa bernie once wrote that women fantasize about being raped.
Bullshit. Moore was never going anywhere. Don’t be a stupid dupe.
Right. How many times do the D’s unilaterally concede something in the hope and expectation that their goodwill will be reciprocated? I don’t know the number.
How many times do the Rethugs reciprocate? I KNOW that number. Zero.
Yet when they dont, they are punished. Rapist republicans will win public support by decrying a dem aldulterer…. Welcome to America.
“It shouldn’t be hard for you to just believe victims, especially when there’s photographic evidence”
I believe the victim, though the photo doesn’t show what you seem to think. The forced tongue kissing is the problem, not the photo.
“If Franken isnt forced out, it will kill any hope of Moore getting expelled.”
And so we get to the root of it — politics, not ethics.
“What a fucking gross post.”
What a fucking moral hero you are. Posture much?
Here, from the latest HuffPo piece, is the nub:
“[Democratic Senators’] swift, straightforward responses are a far cry from the statements that Republican senators trickled out after four women accused Moore of sexually harassing them when they were between the ages of 14 and 18.”
The press is falling over themselves praising this, so Democrats will somehow think this makes them look good and is therefore a win. The right sure knows how to get the left to eat its own, don’t they? Frankenfurters go well with ACORNs.
If SJW Democrats hadn’t acted so self-righteous about Moore they might not be eating their own today.
Oh, and it appears that Roger Stone had been ‘tipped off’. There is not a sleazier dirty trickster out there. Which raises questions of legitimacy on its own:
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/360726-stone-appeared-to-know-franken-allegation-was-coming
See what I mean about waiting at least 24 hours before calling for Franken to resign?
Maybe we should do a poll. Who will the poster who used to write here claim must immediately resign next? If I had a quarter for every time he called for someone to resign, I’d have about $10. If I gave back a quarter for every one of those targets who actually resigned, I’d still have $10.
So it appears the second case of harassment by Franken is a conservative commentator who claims Franken “stalked” her by calling to disagree with her on policy issues. Cooler heads are starting to prevail in terms of response, as well.
It’s so depressing to see how easily the conservatives can weaponize our own morality against us. Wake up, sheeple!
This episode ends the Al Franken 2020 Presidential bid….
I’d prefer the other Minnesota senator, Amy Klobuchar. Betch’a she could win.
Amy Klobuchar is a very smart and substantive legislator… might be a future AG or S Ct pick in a future Democratic administration.
Anyone who supported or voted for the sexual abusing, fraud creating, uranium selling, tattle tell murdering Clinton crime family is very, very hypocritical chastising, Donald Trump, or Al Franken, or Roy Moore. I think ” those who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones” applies here more than ever!
Boy, Rusty you really hate Clinton. Did Bill try to suck your dick or something, or is it just the Fox News 24/7?
Uranium selling? Sorry, but that one’s totally inaccurate. “Tattle tell murdering”? Is that the name of an emo band?
Keep trying, Rusty. Even a blind pig finds an acorn now and then, and you’re overdue.
There’s so much to be critical of the Clinton about I don’t see why one would need to use sensational lies and propaganda. The uranium thing is an obvious lie as is the murder charge.
Rusty – Little bit of advice. If you want people to take you seriously, acting like a fuckstick troll isn’t productive. You just look like an idiot. Of course self published books are also a waste of time, so I see it’s a trend.