The Trump Agenda – Plainly Worded

Filed in National by on November 9, 2016

I’m already seeing some revisionist history about what this Trump win means. It is hard to fathom because Trump didn’t run on some secret agenda. He was right out in the open. These are the things he ran on, and the things Trump voters voted for:

1) Build a wall with Mexico (invoice them)
2) Overturn Obamacare
3) Overturn the constitutional right to gay marriage
4) Ban Muslim travel to the U.S. until we know “what’s going on”
5) Jail Hillary
6) Stop and frisk blacks
7) Strip first amendment protections from the press
8) “Bomb the shit out of” ISIS
9) Enact extreme abortion restrictions
10) Be unpredictable with nuclear weapons
11) Soft pull out of NATO

And for what it is worth, I believe he can do all of these things. He has been underestimated all along and has always prevailed, so his track record points to his getting these things if he still wants them once he is sworn in.

About the Author ()

Jason330 is a deep cover double agent working for the GOP. Don't tell anybody.

Comments (98)

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  1. chris says:

    Trump’s positions are fluid on everything. He will ‘cut deals’ on all of them. See how his hard cores react when he does and it gets real …

    although he may appoint a special prosecutor on the Clinton Foundation stuff.

    There will be no major changes to Obama care, gay rights, etc. Chill out! Dems still have 48 or 49 D senators.

  2. Steve Newton says:

    @chris: There will be no major changes to Obama care, gay rights, etc. Chill out! Dems still have 48 or 49 D senators.

    Here’s the thing: literally, jason and I were about the only two people here to make the case from the very beginning that Trump winning was plausible. Everybody else continued to do what you’ve just done: explain why the politics as usual will stop him. It hasn’t, and it won’t. The President has so many tools available to gut the Affordable Care Act through Executive Action, including effectively pulling the Federal government out of the exchanges and forcing/allowing the big insurance companies to pull out as well. You don’t have to repeal the ACA–just refuse to administer it.

    Trump gets to claim a mandate because he wasn’t supposed to be even close to winning at all. As James Carville said late last night, when Trump’s new GOP controls the White House, both houses of Congress (and through them the Supreme Court), and something like 37 state legislatures, “There’s nothing less powerful than a Democrat in America after tonight.”

    Take away from last night something you don’t want to admit: Trump won not just by blowing up the GOP–he blew up the national Democratic Party as well.

    El Somnabulo, Nate Silver, and Michael Moore were all correct. Prophets without honor.

  3. Ben says:

    And they dont have the guts to mount a fillibuster.

  4. chris says:

    I thought Trump was going to win. I knew there were many blue collar folks going his way, men and women. Never believed polls, as long as he was within a few points. I am talking about the practicality of actually achieving the things he says in a divided government. Its apples and oranges..it took 60 Senate votes to pass Obamacare, remember??? There is a constitutional tool called a filibuster. They will filibuster on the BIG issues.

  5. pandora says:

    You’re right. I was wrong. I thought we were better than this. Now I know that white people love them some white nationalism.

  6. Steve Newton says:

    @Chris: There is a constitutional tool called a filibuster.

    You’re fighting the last war. The Executive Branch can collapse the ACA and leave an empty crater and then kill the Democrats for not helping to pick up the pieces.

    And they will help. They’ll have no choice.

    You’ve just entered Constitutional tools don’t mean shit land for the next six months to a year.

  7. chris says:

    Democrats need to dump all the dead wood like Speaker Pelosi and get some fresh, young people in leadership. Obama won the Presidency because he was new and inspiring. Some of these old political hacks need to retire and move on. Notice Evan Bayh, Ted Strickland and other experienced pols got smoked. This country voted for change last night, whether we like it or not. and Trump even had coattails.

  8. pandora says:

    Yeah, Speaker Pelosi was so awful and ineffective. What are you smoking?

  9. Brian says:

    The idea of 2 unified political parties is now plainly dead, though it really was since Trump dropped in to the race. There is no Democratic Party and Republican Party. You have splintered factions in each.

    I also believed Trump had a chance win, even though I did not vocalize it much. Maybe I should have said it more often? Who knows.

    GOP club runs the show for at least the next 2 years. Dems need to find a new identity because the 30 year-old one is dead.

  10. Anono says:

    @ Pandora: “Now I know that white people love them some white nationalism.”
    Very disappointing comment.
    Here are 2 articles out of Philly:
    http://www.philly.com/philly/columnists/jenice_armstrong/20161109_Armstrong__Shame_on__deplorables__who_supported_Donald_Trump.html
    http://www.philly.com/philly/columnists/jenice_armstrong/20161109_Armstrong__Shame_on__deplorables__who_supported_Donald_Trump.html

    I hope to God, that we can break down the racial issues in our country today. But, a statement like yours and of these 2 journalists, don’t address the anger for change, but, the anger more of the same….a true divide. Hopefully, let’s work together to make it better for all; race, creed, religion, gender on and on.

    I know I will, will you?

  11. pandora says:

    I won’t if it means ignoring the reality of racism. But you go ahead and pretend, I completely understand why you feel that way.

  12. pandora says:

    But maybe you’re right…

    Jill Filipovic ‏@JillFilipovic 1h1 hour ago

    The KKK is celebrating, white hoods and all, on a bridge in North Carolina. What have we done.

    Yep, this was about policy.

  13. pandora says:

    Or this:

    Street vendor here just yelled, “hey guys, at least now it will be legal to grab pussy!” And high-fived a group of men who laughed.

    Or…

    Traders on @NYSE floor booing Kaine/Clinton appearance, shouting “lock her up.”

    I can do this all day.

  14. Ken says:

    12) Nominate a proven apprentice to the SCOTUS: Omarosa? Bret Michaels? Gene Simmons?

  15. Anono says:

    @ Pandora, you are right, you can do that all day, but…..the above statements ARE disgusting.
    Again, I will work to try to chip away at the racism and end the divide.

  16. pandora says:

    How about this gem?

    The Daily Beast ‏@thedailybeast 9m9 minutes ago

    Kellyanne Conway refuses to rule out that Trump will appoint a special prosecutor for Hillary Clinton: http://thebea.st/2fZGaFD

  17. pandora says:

    Looks like I will be doing this all day.

    “Trump’s victory is an opportunity for Israel to immediately retract the notion of a Palestinian state in the centre of the country, which would hurt our security and just cause,” Naftali Bennett, the Minister of Education, said in a press release on Wednesday morning.

    “This is the position of the President-elect, as written in his platform, and it should be our policy, plain and simple. The era of a Palestinian state is over.”

    Good times.

  18. anonymous says:

    Well, frankly, now that it won’t keep her from the White House, I have no problem with a special prosecutor for Hillary Clinton. Just as I have no problem with a court finding president-elect Trump guilty of fraud over Trump U.

  19. anonymous says:

    @pandora: Please keep doing it all day. As someone from Britain noted last night, the foes of Brexit did not stop fighting just because they lost the vote. Never, never stop saying “I told you so.” Stupidity must be constantly reminded that winning an election does not make your opinions valid.

  20. pandora says:

    Thanks. I plan on exposing what really happened here – and it had NOTHING to do with policy.

    Have you checked this map yet? You can see how the map would look if only certain demographics had voted.

  21. anonymous says:

    Here’s my 30,000-foot overview: America had to choose between two narratives. One stressed the changing demographics and more liberal mores of the country and proclaimed them good. Not coincidentally, that narrative was favored by people who have the most contact with immigrants, minorities and the non-hetero-normative.

    But that narrative, that vision, depends on economic abundance. The narrative favored by the rest of America is strongly influenced by what they see more of: scarce economic resources drying up, people reduced to living off government programs. In an honor-based culture, lack of job opportunity strikes a blow at identity. They claim they are taking their country back, but what they are reclaiming is their badly damaged pride.

    So one narrative is the sequel to the past eight years. The other is an unknown future. So would you choose a future in which you know you lose, or an unknown?

    This is the same choice Southerners faced in 1861. Rather than succumb to a slow death in a changing world, they would fight it. Their honor demanded it. And in so doing they destroyed their world far faster than their enemies would have destroyed it.

    So, as a former movie-goer driven from the multiplex by superheroes, at least this won’t be a sequel.

  22. bamboozer says:

    We’re in for hard times no matter how you phrase it and the worst elements of America feel empowered. No matter the narrative you choose there can be no “go along get along” with Trump and the Republican. Like others I’d like to think the Dems will emerge with a better party that can take on the Trumps of this world. Until there’s a major purge it will never happen.

  23. Josh says:

    There is a legal way to enter this country, walking across the border isn’t it.
    Obamacare is going to either bankrupt itself or all of the people who pay into it. My neighbors individual premium is now nearly $500 per month!
    Hillary belongs in jail. I am an honorably discharged veteran. If I had sent one single email from my private email to or from a .mil address I would be in jail, let alone thousands of them. She also took millions from countries who openly kill homosexuals.
    You try hugging ISIS to death, let me know how it works out for you.
    Most countries don’t put their fair share into NATO, while leaving us begging for help when we do need it. Just google “NATO refuses to send troops”, there’s plenty of examples.

  24. anonymous says:

    “There is a legal way to enter this country, walking across the border isn’t it.”

    And it’s not the preferred method for illegal immigrants, either. Meanwhile, the wall, while useless, will at least create jobs, just like the economics 101 example of digging holes and filling them back in.

    “Obamacare is going to either bankrupt itself or all of the people who pay into it. My neighbors individual premium is now nearly $500 per month!”

    He will consider that a bargain in two years. My “family” of three, including a college student, pays $2,500 a month on an employer-based plan. Your neighbor is getting off easy.

    “Hillary belongs in jail. I am an honorably discharged veteran. If I had sent one single email from my private email to or from a .mil address I would be in jail, let alone thousands of them.”

    Yet Colin Powell, who might have been your commander at one point, did the same thing she did, and he’s not in jail. That’s the difference between being a grunt and being the secretary of state.

    “She also took millions from countries who openly kill homosexuals.”

    Just as you have driven thousands of miles using petroleum products produced by countries that openly kill homosexuals. What’s your point?

    “You try hugging ISIS to death, let me know how it works out for you.”

    You try killing them all. We’ll see how that works. My guess: It won’t.

    “Most countries don’t put their fair share into NATO, while leaving us begging for help when we do need it.”

    That’s the price of running the world. Now, apparently, we won’t run the world anymore, and we’ll find out how much you like China and Russia running the world. You might not have noticed this, but Europe is a lot closer to Russia than it is to the U.S., and there’s no pesky ocean in the way.

    “Just google “NATO refuses to send troops”, there’s plenty of examples.”

    That might be an indication that our belligerent positions are not shared by the people who are more likely to suffer the consequences if we’re wrong.

    By the way, you have answered your own question about who you are: An ignoramus. I recall the line from the Desiderata: “Listen to others,
    even the dull and the ignorant; they too have their story.” Well, I have, and it’s a dull and ignorant story.

  25. Josh says:

    anonymous, I would love to buy you coffee and discuss these topics, pandora you can come along too.

  26. Dave says:

    @Josh “If I had sent one single email from my private email to or from a .mil address I would be in jail”

    BS. I also am a veteran. I have sent and received personal emails from my .mil address to my .mil address when I was in uniform and while wearing a suit. It is perfectly acceptable to do so, within certain constraints.

    You may be a veteran (thank you for your service) but obviously you had no access to regulations or you did not read them if you did have access. If you would avail yourself of actual source material rather than a reddit comment thread or twitter feed you might actually discover some real information and facts.

    It’s your choice how you live your life. Yours might be just fine without any facts. Mine requires verifiable information.

  27. Josh says:

    http://www.ethics.wa.gov/ADVISORIES/Board_Approved_Policies/Military%20Dept's%20Internet%20&%20Email%20Use%20policy%20021403.pdf
    It’s old but it proves Dave right. I apologize for being mistaken. It also proves Hillary was in the wrong, but that doesn’t seem to matter. Thanks for your service as well, Dave.
    Good luck out there

  28. liberalgeek says:

    Does the State of Washington’s military policy apply to State Department of the United States email? Or is this from Reddit?

  29. anonymous says:

    “I would love to buy you coffee and discuss these topics”

    Thank you for the kind offer, but I no longer bother discussing these topics with people who haven’t already done their homework, or don’t want to consider all the facts about issues. Once I read the research that showed people in the wrong tend to double down when shown the facts, I realized trying to “talk sense to people” was doing more harm than good.

    In the internet age there is no excuse for not researching the arguments on both sides of any issue. The problem is not that we don’t understand each other, it’s that we don’t agree with each other. And because the conservative side long ago decided it would rather engage its voters on these issues on an emotional rather than a rational level, most “discussions” go nowhere fast.

    You can always prove me wrong by engaging those issues here, but given your post above I’m skeptical.

  30. Dana Garrett says:

    Obama will pardon Hillary before he leaves the WhiteHouse. He knows that Trump has scoped her out.

  31. Dana Garrett says:

    Not taking back the Senate is almost as bad as losing the White House. It’s going to be Hell because of the GOP coup. The horrors that are coming. Oh, my.

  32. Tom Kilne says:

    You my friend are a race baiter.. Worry about the local issues – Wilmington Crime and a State that is broke..

    pandora says:

    November 9, 2016 at 11:07 am
    You’re right. I was wrong. I thought we were better than this. Now I know that white people love them some white nationalism.

  33. bob j. says:

    Josh might of been confused, but i’m not. Had i used my siprnet access to send anything to a private e-mail, I would be in jail. Had I plugged in a cell phone into a siprnet computer to charge it, accidentally synced e-mail, I would be in jail. (that actually happened to someone btw. They got 5 years.)

    Hillary Clinton was her own worst enemy. It was her state department that gave the recommendation to pull the plug on the siprnet in 2010 after bradley manning downloaded the diplomatic cables. This created an opening for her to utilize her private server more where the classified e-mails ended up.

  34. anonymous says:

    Nobody gives a fuck, Bob. They just elected a guy who’s practically giving Putin handjobs, so I don’t think national security is why they’re worked up over the emails.

  35. pandora says:

    “You my friend are a race baiter.”

    The idea that a Trump supporter would type these words is laughable.

  36. anonymous says:

    No it’s not. Trump engaged in projection the entire campaign. Why would his supporters be any different?

  37. pandora says:

    Oh wow. D.L. Hughley nails it: “I think Obama was what we aspire to be, Trump and his supporters are who we are.”

  38. bobsmith6019 says:

    We have nobody to blame here except for Debbie Wasserman Schultz, Hillary Clinton and the DNC. If Debbie did not conspire to rig the primary against Bernie Sanders the results would have been different. Sanders would be taking office in January. Just look at Wilmington only 25,000 people out of 72,000 voted. The race was lost in the major inner cities. Maybe its time to eliminate the electoral college.

  39. anonymous says:

    “Maybe its time to eliminate the electoral college.”

    We’ll address that in the next Constitutional Convention.

  40. Dave says:

    “Sanders would be taking office in January.”

    Really? Trotting out the not progressive enough meme?

    I guess it’s only lame when conservatives do it.

  41. anonymous says:

    @Dave: You should acknowledge that there’s a little truth to it. She lost the election in the upper Midwest, where Bernie beat her in the primaries. Those are the white guys whose economic interests were put in the back seat. Why should we cater to them? Because it turns out that, like everyone else, they’re strongly motivated by self-interest.

  42. bob j. says:

    Since the electoral college came up again, here is a repost from another thread:

    Ugh, you will never get it. The electoral college was/is a stroke of genius by our founding fathers. They understood the diverse nature of our country and devised a way to try and ensure that every group had a voice. Pure democracy is mob rule, and any pure mob rule will oppress any minority. Think lynchings, nazis, armenian genocide, etc. Just go to nytimes.com and view the county voting results and try to tell me that the direction of america would be best decided strictly by 17-20 small geographical areas.

    Besides hypocrites, if the roles were reversed, you would be thanking the gods that the electoral college saved us from a trump presidency. I doubt there would be one liberal bemoaning the fact that the election was stolen from trump.

  43. Andy says:

    How about she was a week candidate. She Under performed in all Demographics compared to Obama.

  44. Dave says:

    “You should acknowledge that there’s a little truth to it.”

    Sure, I’ll acknowledge she is not a progressive. But let’s wait for the statistics to see what the demographics say before we reach any conclusions. For example, in North Carolina, the African American turnout was lower than 2012. Trump won NC with 51% of the vote. If Sanders was on the ballot, would that turnout have been higher? I doubt it.

  45. Dana Garrett says:

    “Trump won NC with 51% of the vote. If Sanders was on the ballot, would that turnout have been higher? I doubt it.”

    This is irrelevant because it presupposes that Sanders wouldn’t have been able to extract voters from one of Trump’s important demographic groups: namely, the embittered working class persons who feel the economic system is rigged to enrich big corporate interests at their expense. That was Trump’s message even though he lied about it. That was also Sander’s message and he has dedicated his career to it and knew the topic and its remedies better than anyone whose run for office in my lifetime. This election year was very much about being against electing a President not beholden to big corporate interests. Sanders would have stolen a big segment of that vote from Trump. Sanders would have won.

  46. pandora says:

    Perhaps the ever present, never letting up, constant critic, Bernie supporter bemoaning the lost primary and never getting on board had something to do with it? I don’t really think that, but since we’re playing make-believe…

    And I’ll say it again, this had nothing to do with the economy. Did you read Jason’s post above? That was Trump’s agenda. That’s what white people voted for. Stop ignoring what Trump actually said and validating the majority of his voters. At worst, it’s white nationalism. At best, it’s an authoritarian daddy figure who will kick someone’s, anyone’s ass. Neither of the Dem candidates offered this and that’s what won.

    That’s why the polls were wrong. His voters knew what they were voting for, but didn’t want to say it out loud.

  47. Dana Garrett says:

    “That’s why the polls were wrong. His voters knew what they were voting for, but didn’t want to say it out loud.”

    Oh, so there’s no sound empirical evidence for your claim, but that’s not going to keep you from making it. So are you psychic and have the ability to read the minds of millions of voters?

    Or is it that in the election year when voters nationwide were clearly saying (based on polls) that they distrusted establishment friendly politicians for President, you don’t want to admit you were mistaken in your choice and that you were wrong to act like a status quoist?

    What a pity that Democrats are not getting this. Not only should they have won the White House, but they should have won the Senate as well. The Democratic Party was repudiated. And it doesn’t look like it’s going to do the internal analysis necessary to gain the trust and confidence of the vast majority of the American people.

  48. Dana Garrett says:

    Here’s the dynamic that effected the Democratic Party and has been for years:

    “As the center shifts right, liberals press closer to the center in order (being practical and realistic) to forestall the calamity of finding themselves too far out. As they rush in this direction, the equilibrium of the system necessarily shifts right again–and the cycle repeats…The secret of the whole process is the political vacuum on the left. There is no left opposition in American politics. It is this vacuum which pulls the new Right out of the walls.”

    –Hal Draper, “The Ultra Right and the Liberals” (1962)

  49. Jason330 says:

    Dana, I saw that on your FB this morning and used it in an upcoming post. Stay tuned.

  50. pandora says:

    Did you really just accuse me of being psychic after every supposition you just typed in the comments above? That’s quite amazing. Guess your opinions are gospel while mine are psychic.

    Are you saying that Trump wouldn’t have pointed out that Sanders has been part of the establishment since 1981 – as mayor and then in the senate since 1990? Are you saying that Trump wouldn’t have asked Bernie, “What have you accomplished in 30+ years in office? Are you saying that Trump wouldn’t have lied about Sanders and that the press wouldn’t have gone along with it – that somehow they would have held Trump to the same standard as the Dem nominee? Do you really think an avowed socialist wouldn’t be painted by Trump as someone giving hard-working, white people’s money away to all those lazy black and brown people? Do you actually believe any of this? If so, that’s a big part of the problem.

    I’d really rather not have this argument because it’s pointless. No one can know if the results would have been different if we had a different candidate. Here’s the only thing I know: White America elected Trump – knowing exactly who he is and what he would do to the ACA, taxes, Planned Parenthood, Dodd-Frank, Muslims, BLM, women, LGBT, undocumented workers, etc.. That’s what won on Tuesday.

  51. anonymous says:

    @Dave, and others: Nonsense. The election was lost in Pa., Michigan and Wisconsin. Nobody expected her to lose there, and if she had won, she wouldn’t have needed North Carolina, where voter restrictions probably made the difference. (Same in Wisconsin, for that matter).

    Several counties around the country that voted for Obama twice voted for Trump this time, and they were mostly in former manufacturing areas. I watched John King pull up the live numbers all night long. There are areas outside Detroit that normally vote D that voted R this time. Those are former manufacturing areas that responded not to the racism — they voted for Obama, for crying out loud — but to their sense of economic doom.

    Not every vote for Trump was a vote for racism. Your failure to understand this makes you as backward-looking as the Republicans you repudiate.

  52. Jason330 says:

    A teamster lives across the street from me (great guy, not a racist (outwardly anyway)). A week prior to the election he put up a Trump sign and I said “Oh shit.” But I said it very quietly because I didn’t want to be regarded as a nervous nelly, a concern troll, or someone helping out Trump by not staying positive about Clinton.

  53. ex-anonymous says:

    democrats have been getting away with supporting corporate interests by distracting their coalition with victories on social issues. there have been a lot of those victories, which is good. but in their search for social perfection, some democrats have failed to address the economic issues, which are the more important ones right now. bernie had the right idea, but i think voters might have rejected the idea of a socialist president once they had that point driven home. dems will have a more widely accepted populist next time.

  54. pandora says:

    A teamster Trump supporter? Yeah, that’s voting your economic interest. Thanks for making my point.

  55. anonymous says:

    And your point is…?

    Working-class union members voting for a Republican who won’t help them is as old as Reagan’s 1980 victory. It’s just that Democrats don’t even promise to help them anymore. An empty promise works better than ignoring them.

    If your point is that they’re stupid, well, we’ve got our own contingent of those. The point is that some of those ignorant Teamsters voted for Obama but won’t vote for Hillary, and it’s because Clinton never showed any interest in them.

  56. bobsmith6019 says:

    Well a Glass Ceiling for women was broken during this presidential election of course Hillary Clinton never gave this women any credit. So congratulation to Kellyanne Conway the first woman to run a victorious Presidential Campaign!

  57. kavips says:

    Although I don’t have clarity on all the poll data yet, looking at this year from the primaries onward, it appears that populism did win out over everything else.. We will never know how it could have turned out if the negative populist ran against a positive one. Instead our system by its rules after a tight race chose to run on competence.

    And for all of us that seemed like a good choice. One of the messages in this campaign was that we have a candidate who can hit the ground running on day 1; versus their message that they were going to tear down the last 8 years starting with day 1…

    The take away is that competence, science, finesse, experience, ability to get things done, knowledge, education, are now vestigial human traits for half our population, these are no longer necessarily needed for leadership. Leadership is dominated by reality TV; theatrics, drama, image, illusion, plus the ability to hurt others who oppose you. Sounds very Roman, doesn’t it? One prime example being yesterday that even WDEL’s Morning Show’s Susan B was proudly claiming she voted for Trump, and when giving her reasons on her show absolutely ignored every horror Trump had committed to.. This, a woman, a former teacher, a media personality, completely dismissing huge swaths of our nation’s population as irrelevant, was the exact portrait of the problem, not a symptom of its illness. The America we have always loved, is not the real America we actually have today.

    But though it seems like a mandate skewed by the electoral dominance of red over blue, based on the popular vote, it is evenly half and half…Only by the slightest thread, the smallest of distinctions, are we more heavily weighed in favor of their side than ours. If only 1 person out of a hundred had voted for Hillary over Trump , it would have flipped PA, Wis, Mich, FL, and AR, the electoral college would be reversed, and we today would have been saying that indeed, that America was proudly ready to pursue a liberal course because the American People had chosen their first woman president to follow their first Black one… Plus we’d have the supreme court to solidify that for generations…

    Just one out of one hundred… That is how close in actuality we were. So giving up, throwing in the towel, now, is probably not the way to go. Getting that one person to switch back in 2 years, probably is…

    When you are in a car with no brakes, you don’t step on the gas; when it coasts to a rest, you pull over and put new brakes on. That is real life.

  58. pandora says:

    My point is… Reagan got white voters for resentment politics, as well. A Teamster voting for Trump deserves everything heading his way. But hey, as long as those “other” people get screwed over, it’s cool.

    And I’d remind you that Hillary had the white working class vote in 2008 (Hello? Go review the states Hillary won in 2008). The Obama coalition was close to 50% the Hillary coalition. She delivered her supporters to Obama in 2008. He couldn’t have won without them.

  59. kavips says:

    Resentment votes also carried Bush I and Bush II. They just didn’t succeed against Bill Clinton or Obama, for some reason. though they were certainly tried… .

  60. anonymous says:

    @pandora: So you’re not going to let facts change your mind. Gotcha.

    Hillary didn’t “deliver” anything. Despite what political reporters try to pretend, people don’t vote how others tell them to, even when the person is someone they support.

    And if you’re going to toss around historical comparisons, look at what the black turnout was without a black politician on the ticket. Part of that is voter suppression, but not in the northeast. Without an African-American on the ticket, blacks were not as motivated to vote, even against Trump.

    I know this is a shock to you, because you actually vote against your self-interest as a person of some means, as do I. But most people don’t.

  61. kavips says:

    Anyone have links to the low black turnout this election? In the soup of data they are not coming forward on any of my search engines…. 🙁 Grrr.

  62. pandora says:

    You aren’t putting forth facts. You’re putting forth your opinion. You’re claiming your opinion is fact while mine is not. Both are opinion.

    Economic anxiety was the go-to excuse to hide resentment politics – and it was, in most part, media created. The salt-of-the-earth blue collar white male voter narrative. Don’t believe me? Then go review all those Trump rallies and tell me what the Trump supporters were saying – what their tee shirts and signs said. I don’t recall talk, tee shirts or signs advocating economic concerns. Could you point me to that?

  63. anonymous says:

    You can find plenty of articles about how low the early voting black turnout was in places like Florida and North Carolina. As noted, some of that is voter intimidation, but we don’t know how much.

  64. anonymous says:

    “You aren’t putting forth facts. You’re putting forth your opinion.”

    No, I’m not. I can’t link it because I was watching it live on CNN, but there were several large counties near industrial northern cities that voted for Obama but flipped to Trump. Philadelphia is about the only city’s suburbs that flipped in the opposite direction. The Pa. election was lost in the Pittsburgh suburbs, which went solidly red.

    Trump rallies brought out the crazies, and you’re judging his entire electorate by that. He got 59 million votes, some of them from people who voted for Obama. That’s a fact. He won among poor whites, when Romney’s strength was among rich whites. That’s a fact.

    You don’t want to acknowledge that white men have complaints of their own, and that they act on them in the voting booth. Lots of men on this site who are more liberal than you on economic issues have made the point for months, and you have missed it for months.

    Frankly, your attitude is the problem with the Democratic Party. Working-class white men are 40% of the electorate, and you spent the entire campaign telling them their concerns were of no merit. So they elected a guy with no merit.

    Jason, Dana, Steve, and others, myself included, tried over and over again to explain this to you culture warriors, and you kept telling us we were wrong. Now you’re going to double down on it?

  65. mouse says:

    Didn’t we have a discussion last week about Clinton ignoring job/outsourcing issues and crony corporate issues that Trump spoke to that was dismissed by some in here? Obviously a huge percentage voted for him because crazy bigoted and paranoia issues but jobs and trade agreements were a part too. Could have been the difference in the election

  66. Dorian Gray says:

    It’s vexing that you think it’s an either/or. It’s clearly both. Working class whites in western PA and north and central OH who live in backwater towns with one Walmart, no jobs and flush with heroin want their steel and coal jobs back. They struggle to put the economic realities together because they’re not, well let’s say they aren’t exactly intellectually sophisticated. Hence, the stats that Anonymous cited are true. Trump won districts Obama won twice. Bigly.

    Also, a wave of white nationalist were added to the fray and a rejection of “speech police” is very real. Racists, homophones and inarticulate dolts don’t like being called racists, homophobes and inarticulate dolts. (File that under ‘T’ for the truth hurts.) These people flocked to a guy who “says want I want to say.”

    Note: The barely veiled insults are absolutely fait exprès. I couldn’t care less. We just experienced the horror of one of the longest public con-jobs in recorded history and if the answer is to go out to bum-fuck Michigan and explain to Sandy and Cletus the finer points of economic theory and public policy, you can have it. It’s just not my bag.

    I’m done with hand-holding babies. This is why I didn’t have kids. I’m done with politics. If you want to go protest stupidity and racism in the streets, ring me up. I am in. Any time, anywhere and always.

    Proud east coast elite…

  67. pandora says:

    Nice re-writing of history, there. I never said their concerns were of no merit. I said we should run on income inequality and social issues. I was told that social issues were a distraction and should be moved aside. I even wrote a post that pointed out Trump’s pull with progressive white males. But hey, if people think we could have won by throwing out social issues, that somehow that would have increased the woman and minority vote then you’ll need to explain how that works as a motivation to get people to the polls.

    You keep discounting racism, bigotry and misogyny. Anyone who voted for Trump accepted these things were on the ballot. They had zero problem with them. He said them constantly. If you voted for him you knew what you were getting in regards to these issues. You have very little idea of what he’d do for the economy – other than bust up unions and give mega tax cuts to the rich and – LOL – somehow (who knows since he was never asked) bring back union jobs (I’m dyin’ here) that are never coming back. So, if these white guys voted for Trump due to economics then, you’re correct, they are stupid. Can’t have it both ways. Either they were serious and informed about economic concerns, or they weren’t. I’m going with… they weren’t. That the majority couldn’t discuss the most basic economic policy, but they understood the racism, bigotry and misogyny and that was a-okay with them.

    Racism (Mexicans are rapists and murders, bring back stop and frisk, Blue lives matter, the KKK, etc.), Bigotry (Ban all Muslims, his anti-semitic statements, consider getting rid of gay marriage, etc.) and misogyny (calling women names, punishing women who seek abortions, grab them by the pussy, etc.) made up the vast majority of his campaign. When you speak with the groups targeted by Trump there is no confusion over what white America voted for. They watched it every day and night on their TV and then lived it every time they encountered a Trump supporter.

    BTW, Mike Matthews is writing on FB about his Hispanic, American citizen partner’s experience throughout this campaign. The harassment, threats and slurs he’s been receiving tell you what you need to know.

  68. anonymous says:

    @DG and pandora: I never said it was either/or, either. But whenever we pointed out that calls for unity and fairness weren’t going to move the Trump electorate, we were told that it was more important to emphasize fairness for women and minorities. The lesson, I believe, is that you need to hold onto 40% of the white men to win.

    @pandora: “Anyone who voted for Trump accepted these things were on the ballot. They had zero problem with them.”

    You are wrong. I talked with them. They had major problems with it — but bigger problems with Hillary. They would have pulled the R lever more readily for any other GOP candidate. Sure, the KKKers came out of the woodwork, and that might have been the cohort that put him over the top. But for many Republicans Trumpism is a bug, not a feature.

    Perhaps you missed it, but a majority of Trump voters said they disagree with him on the Muslim ban. These “zero problem with it” claims — I realize it’s hyperbole, but that’s not how everyone reads it — are the problem. It turns out that if you keep calling people racists, they tend to vote for your opponent. I trust you understand how that works — look at how you view the party that treats women and minorities as second-class citizens. That’s one of the big motivators for us to vote against Republicans, isn’t it?

  69. Dorian Gray says:

    I’m not a huge supporter of anecdotal evidence. However, I’ve heard some very disgusting and scary story from people very close to me who I trust implicitly. One Pakistani mate of mine who has 2 daughters. His 8 year old was subjected to some very ugly talk at school. Moreover his colleagues at work told him verbatim, “I’m white. This is our country and I should be able to do and say whatever I want.”

    Another very close friend of mine teaches AP Literature at a DE public HS. She had her students write reflects on the election results. One 15 year old boy wrote this sentence in his essay.

    “My biggest fear is that is seems acceptable again to call me a nigger.”

    And I didn’t even get into the misogyny. It’s out there and I’m ready to stand up to it loudly, in public, aggressively and without exception.

    If you don’t want to reckon with this part of it and just rely on facts and figures on a CNN screen, I don’t want to tell you. I’m not saying those figures aren’t accurate. I’m prioritizing my fight.

  70. pandora says:

    “We just experienced the horror of one of the longest public con-jobs in recorded history and if the answer is to go out to bum-fuck Michigan and explain to Sandy and Cletus the finer points of economic theory and public policy, you can have it. It’s just not my bag.”

    Exactly. BTW, Sandy and Cletus voted for Reagan, worked union jobs and cheered when Reagan fired 11,000 air traffic controllers. They brought about their present situation.

  71. Dorian Gray says:

    I have problems with Hillary as well, but if a voter believed those problems were “bigger” that person is a fucking empty-heading Cro-Magnon.

    If emails and speaking fees and a charity are worse than the words Trump spoke at his rallies we’re are proper fucked. If someone can dismiss a Muslim ban because it’s not as bad as hosting emails on a private computer that’s a racist person. It’s not that complicated.

    So if a voter dismissed those as less than HRC’s flaws that’s a person who won’t acknowledge racism or misogyny. I’m simply not standing for this anymore anywhere.

  72. anonymous says:

    ” if these white guys voted for Trump due to economics then, you’re correct, they are stupid. ”

    It’s not that hard to educate them, either, despite DG’s attitude. If the working men of the 1920s could understand socialism, I see no reason today’s working people can’t.

    Here, it’s simple: When the government spends money building things, the economy gets healthy, even under late-stage capitalism. Now that the GOP can take full credit for any economic turn-around, they may even return to doing that.

    Let’s face it, nobody is going to complain much if the economy gets stronger. IF Trump embraces a Keynesian response to the economy instead of austerity, that could happen.

  73. pandora says:

    My black, brown, Muslim, Jewish, gay and women friends are terrified and have had the same experiences Dorian cites. My advice would be for those of you claiming that economic issues ruled the day to go out and talk to these groups. White America’s message was delivered loud and clear to them. Worse, these hateful people have become emboldened. Our nation just sanctioned their behavior.

    And anonymous, anyone that could overlook all that racist, bigoted, misogynistic talk really didn’t care because it wasn’t going to impact their lives. They were okay with it. Sure, it might have bothered them a bit, but not enough. That’s the issue.

  74. Dorian Gray says:

    Do you think Trump know one jot about John Maynard Keynes? Do you think he’ll employ anyone who does?

    He could do it without knowing he’s doing I guess and that’s the best we can hope for. That he does something capriciously that actually works. That’s not exactly optimistic.

    The blue collar worker of the 20s didn’t get their rocks off with Twitter and Fox News either. Let’s face it, those people were readers and likely decent writers as well.

  75. pandora says:

    “It’s not that hard to educate them, either, despite DG’s attitude. If the working men of the 1920s could understand socialism, I see no reason today’s working people can’t.”

    It was easy in the 1920s for them to understand socialism, those pesky women and black/brown people knew their place then. (Make America Great Again = I want my country back!) Their socialism at the time benefited them. Hell, social security, in the beginning, only benefited them.

  76. puck says:

    When we are talking about the “white working class,” let’s focus more on the working and less on the white. In my experience white working class people are perfectly happy to work alongside of black or brown people, as long as they are working in good secure jobs.

  77. Dorian Gray says:

    It’s pretty clear that the successful and affluent people in large cities and/or on the coasts are fully prepared to pay more tax to ensure everyone has a social safety net. How many times must we demonstrate it? How many times must we say it?

    After 100 years of demonizing government and 30 years demonizing HRC as a “feminazi” and “crooked” and 50 years of demonizing socialism I’d wager the task is much more difficult than you’re letting on.

  78. anonymous says:

    Sounds like Trump voters weren’t the only ones with resentments.

    You just put your world-view to the test. It lost. Yet you’re insisting that it’s the right way forward. I’m saying that your way forward just fell off the cliff.

    Clinton ran this election as a morality play — I might have made some poor choices, but this guy is nothing BUT poor choices! Yet this moral rectitude failed as an election strategy. Trump talked about what he was going to do once elected. She talked about how awful Trump was.

    Obama talked about the future with hope. Trump sold an optimistic vision — lies, but his fans don’t care. They just want hope.

    Clinton just said we were “stronger together,” despite clear evidence that the nation is drifting apart. It didn’t strike me as the vision of a person who understood the challenges.

    You cannot persuade people to join you by telling them what terrible people they are. You still show no sign of understanding this.

  79. anonymous says:

    @puck: My point is that we might sympathize with their situation, but most people react better to whatever’s in it for them. The choice in the primaries was between Sanders, who was offering more to the economically oriented, and Clinton, who hit hard on the social equality theme.

    The numbers aren’t final yet, but I suspect they’re going to show that the 1 million missing votes are blacks who were disenfranchised and Reagan Democrats in certain key areas of Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin.

    It will be many months in coming, but I suspect we’re going to find that voter intimidation laws played a key role in Florida, Wisconsin and North Carolina. She would have lost NC anyway, I think, but if she had held Florida and Wisconsin she would have won the electoral college.

  80. Dorian Gray says:

    Totally agree. I’m in the minority* with most of my views. I’m also right. One doesn’t determine correctness by popular vote. That’s why I wrote originally that I’m through with politics.

    Clinton was a poor campaigner. Also fair enough. I’m a poor salesperson myself. In my view quality and truth, like very good drugs, sell themselves. No need for whistles & bells. But for people who haven’t read a written word apart from the websites in their internet browser favorites adore a mindless show. Again, fair enough.

    (*Although Clinton will win the popular vote.)

  81. puck says:

    Sanders was not the right candidate and he would have lost. But he did have his finger on the jobs pain in the Rust Belt, and Hillary ignored that message at her peril. That pain has nothing to to with ethnicity – it began before the Clintons came on the scene and continues to this day. The Rust Belt was failed by decades of Ds and Rs. And the Rust Belt scenario is playing out to differing degrees in most other regions of the country.

    Hillary might have done well to take a page from her husband and tell those voters “I feel your pain,” even if she had nothing else to offer them. Telling coal miners “we’re going to put a lot of you out of business” didn’t help either.

  82. anonymous says:

    “It’s pretty clear that the successful and affluent people in large cities and/or on the coasts are fully prepared to pay more tax to ensure everyone has a social safety net.”

    That’s not enough. We need a majority. People who don’t have the money to spare — our median income is $55K — aren’t going to vote for those extra taxes.

    We need to explain to working people that their vanished “good jobs” didn’t pay well because they manufactured things but because unions made it a condition of employment. I worked for 25 years for a non-union company. It stayed that way by paying union wages, which spared it from dealing with union-negotiated working conditions. (Once again demonstrating that for most people the common good comes second to self-interest.)

    I expect that part of the next four years is going to be an object lesson in the folly of Republican economics. I expect its total failure, which might be the only sort of object lesson that dumb people will understand.

  83. anonymous says:

    Interesting. Seems some of people out marching against Trump did not vote for Clinton. Again, something you and she never got — you can hate Trump and still not vote for her.

    And you can blame whomever you like for that, but it won’t make it go away.

  84. anonymous says:

    Here’s the Pennsylvania map. Note the three counties that flipped from Obama to Trump:

    http://www.philly.com/philly/news/politics/presidential/20161110_How_Trump_took_Pennsylvania__Wins__almost__everywhere_but_the_southeast.html

    You could look at them as whiter than Philadelphia and say it’s race, despite their support for Obama, or you could look at them as more rust-industry-based and voting for a guy who pretended to champion them. I think one response is more useful than the other.

  85. Dorian Gray says:

    Taxpayers at the median income don’t have to pay it. You know that! In fact it’s on AGI > $250,000. HRC said exactly this in a debate. I saw it with my own eyes and heard it with my own ears. So let’s not pretend that anyone was calling for higher taxes on anyone but rich people.

    As far as “making it go away,” as I’ve said, I don’t have the skill set. Maybe if we hire a bunch of kindergarten teachers that would yield results. I don’t converse with 5 year olds (biological age or mental age).

    We’re dealing with people who didn’t trust Hillary when she told the truth and didn’t care that Trump just stumped stream of consciousness shit. They knew Trump was a liar. They just didn’t care. Yet you think they just need better information. This is a strange idea. Have you dipped into my stash, brother?

  86. anonymous says:

    “So let’s not pretend that anyone was calling for higher taxes on anyone but rich people.”

    Middle-class people were under the illusion that they were going to pay $1,000 a year more in taxes, and they believed it. I suppose you think it wasn’t worth educating them on the details of her plan? Yet I never saw an ad about it. Just tut-tutting Trump and Kumbaya moments with kids. How did that work out with white men?

    “We’re dealing with people who didn’t trust Hillary when she told the truth and didn’t care that Trump just stumped stream of consciousness shit.”

    I’m sorry, but most people do not think Hillary tells the truth anytime except when it serves her purpose. For that matter, we do not really know if she told the truth. Telling the truth more often than Donald Trump isn’t much of a bar, and it’s possible to think they’re both liars. Read that philly.com piece on where she lost.

    “Yet you think they just need better information.”

    They certainly don’t need to be sold neo-liberalism, which essentially duplicates the trickle-down theory in trade form rather than tax form — that trade helps the economy, which trickles down to everyone. So we get a lot of cheap crap that nobody earns enough to buy. I continue to believe that if workers of 100 years ago could understand economics, workers of today can understand it.

    “This is a strange idea.”

    I would posit that it’s a more useful idea than total withdrawal from the process. That might help keep your blood pressure under control, but it won’t do a lot to dislodge Republicans.

  87. pandora says:

    Anonymous’ beginning premise is wrong. He equates voting for Obama with voting for Hillary. There are differences between racism and sexism. Equating the two and then extrapolating out from there is a mistake. They are not the same.

    Oh, and the emboldened Trump voters (you know those supposedly economically concerned) are showing us what this election was really about. Our own nemski and Shaun King are documenting their atrocious racist, misogynistic, bigoted behavior on FB. And there’s a ton of it.

  88. anonymous says:

    I pointed to specific elections districts that changed from voting for Obama to voting for Trump. Specific districts. You continue to claim that all 60 million voted for what their lunatic fringe believes.

    Fifty-three percent of white women voted for Trump. Are you sure sexism was their driving force?

    You continue to display, as you have throughout this election, a belief that doing what is right and good will win votes. You continue to believe it even now, with defeat caused by poor turnout and defecting ex-union households staring you right in the face.

  89. pandora says:

    I would advise you to read up on the differences.

    Women buy into sexism often.

  90. anonymous says:

    “Women buy into sexism often.”

    Really? 53% of them? That’s a problem in your own house you ought to get in order before lecturing others who are trying to understand people different from themselves, wouldn’t you think?

  91. anonymous says:

    AS for the notion that the worst behavior of a relative few stands for the behavior of all, does that mean Black Lives Matter is responsible for Micah Johnson’s murder of five cops in Dallas at a BLM rally? I’d say no, but you seem to be arguing for yes.

  92. pandora says:

    That’s a problem in your own house you ought to get in order before lecturing others who are trying to understand people different from themselves, wouldn’t you think?

    I’ll work on that. Now you go fix your white dude bros.

    You don’t understand that voting for a black man and voting for a white women come with their own unique set of circumstances. That voting for one does not equate with voting for the other.

  93. Dorian Gray says:

    Last part first. I didn’t say your idea wasn’t useful I said it was strange.

    I think the HRC campaign was weak and said so.

    The idea that Clinton couldn’t be trusted is a scheme. Of course she could. The fact that people don’t “think” she can be is because they were hoodwinked.

    And if you think I’m a neo-liberal you’re incorrect. I’m a socialist. I’m arguing this side because it was the most reasonable decision given a de facto binary choice.

    On the women and sexism thing Pandora is correct. Think of it like this. The cop the shot and killed Ta Nehisi Coates friend Prince Jones was black. It’s irrelevant. They bought into a racist system. Same with however many women voted for Trump.

    I already address the issue about Trump winning districts Obama did. You keep arguing the same thing over and over.

    I couldn’t really give a fuck what people feel or believe. I can’t emphasis this enough. This is why I’m out. I’m not going to waste my fucking time babying half-wits. Fuck their beliefs. I’ll evaluate reasons and evidence.

  94. Dorian Gray says:

    The BLM Dallas cop killing analogy is shit. The fucking racists and half-wits actually did vote for Trump. So there’s an actually, you know, connection to the outcome. Whereas the loosely organized BLM movement wasn’t connect to the Dallas massacre.

    See the difference. You’re flailing now and embarrassing yourself.

  95. pandora says:

    The entire election cycle was dedicated to babying half-wits. That’s partly why we find ourselves in this situation.

  96. Dorian Gray says:

    Yeah, I suppose that’s true. My only quibble is the “partly” bit. I’d go with mostly.

    This entire fucking farce was predicated on the concept that the system and America is in the shitter and it’s is so broken and depleted we need to burn it down. This is totally fatuous and false. But people believed it! Fuck me… Sort of like a religious idea. I have no time for nonsense anymore. It’s cutting into my reading time.

    Look, the dummies and racists and rubes and hayseeds outnumber me. Fine. I’ll accept the outcome. But that’s as far as it goes.

  97. pandora says:

    I’ll just drop this here:

    Joy Reid ‏@JoyAnnReid Nov 9

    Perspective: as much as 19th century white America hated black people, they gave black men the right to vote 50 years before white women.

    And Dorian, You’re right with the mostly.

  98. Dorian Gray says:

    There was mention a few weeks ago of repealing the 19th Amendment. Now maybe this was hyperbolic campaign talk… but who even says this… also, why did they think it would be effective, do you think?