Tuesday Open Thread [7.26.16]
Yesterday got off to a bad start, with BernieorBusters booing every speaker when they dared to mention Hillary Clinton’s name and even booing a prayer. During the 5 o’clock hour, I was convinced there was going to be fist fights in the stands when they booed Michelle Obama and that Trump was destined to be President. But it seems the BernieorBusters just had to throw their little temper tantrum like the children (literally) they are. After their steam was released, the convention calmed down and it was an amazing evening with three amazing speeches by Sarah Silverman, Cory Booker and Michelle Obama.
Booker’s speech will be remembered akin to Obama’s 2004 speech. Michelle Obama’s speech will be copied by a Republican in 2024, and remembered along the greatest in American history. Sarah Silverman really gave a unity speech that was better than Warren and Bernie’s, and put the less civil BernieorBusters in their place in a classic moment that will be remembered for all time. And Bernie Sanders gave a speech, like his endorsement speech weeks ago, that was better than I could have asked for.
So, the night was more than salvaged as a show of unity.
my two year old son just asked "daddy, why does the media treat moderate leftism as a threat to society but laugh off fascism on the right?"
— sean. (@SeanMcElwee) January 31, 2016
Ed Kilgore says Bernie may have finally broken the Never Hillary Movement once and for all among his own supporters:
Suppose you didn’t know about the Bernie-or-Bust bros chanting “Lock Her Up” on the streets of Philadelphia Monday morning, or some of his delegates booing him Monday afternoon for calling Hillary Clinton’s election as president urgent and mandatory. Imagine you didn’t know the chattering classes were buzzing all day about the terrible disunity that seemed to be breaking out, and the threat of terrible disturbances on the floor.
If all you paid attention to was the evening speeches, the first night of the convention was a cavalcade of progressive voices (with a few interruptions) making the case for like-minded voters to united behind Hillary Clinton – concluding, of course, with Bernie Sanders. Comedian Sarah Silverman was the only Sanders supporter who came right out and told off the Bernie-or-Bust minority that had basically terrorized the convention at its beginning. But marginalizing these people was the residual effect of the evening. In a way, the Sanders campaign (and its ideological fellow-travelers like Elizabeth Warren) may have even helped Clinton triangulate against the angry Left, without her having to lift a finger or raise her own voice – or calling on her own allies to get their hands dirty.
Would that have happened without the early unpleasantness? I don’t know. But there was a sense of catharsis when the tension of Oh my God they’re going to boo Bernie! broke that probably broke the resistance to Clinton once and for all.
It does appear that Clinton’s people had to make the concession of going along with a full roll call vote in which Sanders will get his votes, but that won’t happen in front of an audience as large as tonight’s.
Maybe then the loud, rude vast minority of Bernie supporters will finally know he lost and lost by a lot if we do a roll call.
Compare: nearly full arena tonight for Dems vs. many empty seats on Monday (for Scott Baio) at RNC pic.twitter.com/6JBKaCzBuj
— Josh Barro (@jbarro) July 26, 2016
Markos Moulitsas is happy:
The rhetoric was inspiration, soaring, inspiring, and hopeful. Corey Booker started dry, ended a powerhouse. Michelle Obama gave the best speech of her career, one full of amazing speeches. Elizabeth Warren was amazing, like always. Bernie Sanders was the constructively progressive champion so many of us hoped would transform into.
We crammed more big-time powerhouse surrogates in one day than the Republican convention managed in an entire week.
But it wasn’t just about the big names, it was about showcasing our party’s deep diversity, it was about not-famous champions, like little 11-year-old Karla Ortiz, pleading for an America in which her parents didn’t live under threat of deportation, and Anastasia Somoza, on her wheelchair, wondering how anyone could be as heartless and cruel as Donald Trump. It was Sarah Silverman, über Sanders supporter, lashing out at the boorish assholes doing Donald Trump’s work for him, inside the convention hall.
It was about a party that could stick to its theme, “Unity Together” tonight. Yes, those few assholes, reportedly from my state’s delegation (California), cast a pall on proceedings, giving the chattering class reason to talk about a “divided” party. But let them talk. A few overly privileged cranks don’t represent our party.
This is my party. This is our party. This is America’s party. We are everybody, and we were all represented in that hall tonight, and on stage. I am filled with pride and purpose. I can’t wait for what tomorrow will bring.
— Sarah McBride (@SarahEMcBride) July 26, 2016
Josh Marshall on Bernie’s speech:
It was particularly well put together in terms of giving voice to what animated his campaign while pivoting to supporting Hillary and not having either seem forced, contrived or false. That’s not the easiest thing to do. That is an understatement. What really brought it together though was that Sanders heart and head seemed very much in it. He managed to bring all the furious intensity he is capable of to this speech. It was really quite something.
Pounding thunderstorm in Philly is shutting down a Jill Stein rally. The DNC's nefarious methods know no bounds.
— daveweigel (@daveweigel) July 25, 2016
Brian Beutler says the Democrats just showed Republicans how it’s done:
Clinton’s convention lineup wasn’t designed to contrast with Trump’s brigade of C-list celebrities and agitators, though it did do that. It was instead meant to serve as a demonstration that Clinton is widely respected in the Democratic Party, which is much less divided than a handful of Sanders delegates would have you believe. Where Trump insists to the public that Republicans are unified, Clinton and her supporters showed that they are.
Perspective thanks to @pbump https://t.co/4wxZS3a5UT
— John Stoehr (@johnastoehr) July 25, 2016
There are just too many stories that I want to show you, but we don’t have enough space, so here are some more to read at your leisure from last night:
How Michelle Obama wrote Donald Trump out of the American narrative.
The Democrats’s big pitch: We’re the Party of [real] Family Values now.
Ezra Klein says the Democrat’s big message is that America is great so don’t let Trump fuck with it (my words, lol).
Matt Yglesias says that the first part of the first day may have looked like a mess, but the Democrats are more unified than it seems (and hey MSNBC, can you perhaps not fill our air with interviews with a few ignorant BernieBusters? They found 3 delegates out of 5 fucking thousand and gave them lengthy live interviews.
Dylan Matthews on the quiet radicalism of Michelle Obama’s speech.
Dylan Matthews with the 4 winners and 2 losers from last night: Winners: Michelle Obama, Bernie Sanders, Sarah Silverman, and American Exceptionalism. Losers: Debbie Wasserman Schultz, TPP.
Bernie Sanders’ former press secretary: No one stole this election. Bernie lost it fair and square.
Your party is imploding as you speak.
No. It’s not. But if you feel that way please elaborate.
Buckle up everyone! If this is your first election year with us get ready for more commenters like Cynnic Acid.
Yeah, a conservative troll.
“Hillary Clinton wants to see that all Americans have the right to choose a public option.” – Bernie Sanders
Some of us remember when Obama lied about that, too.
@CA – Watch what you say on this board. They will prevent you from posting, because they only like to hear 1 side. Their side only!
Sigh. You are an idiot, Disappointed. The votes were not there for it in 2010. Obama tried. He did not lie. This is why I strongly dislike with a passion purist progressives. You are the one who is lying because you are deluding yourself and everyone that Obama, Hillary and Sanders have a magic wand power that can establish whatever they want with a snap of finger. And if they don’t do something, it is because they don’t want it.
It is you, Disappointed, that is the liar.
“If all you paid attention to was the evening speeches, the first night of the convention was a cavalcade of progressive voices ”
This is exactly how I experienced the convention. Actually I have limited basic cable by choice and I don’t even get CNN, FOX, or MSNBC. So I watched the CSPAN feed with no commercials, no commentary, and no interviews by network reporters nutpicking to create inflated controversy. And no Facebook, no Twitter. The only social media I experienced was to occasionally drop in to DL and amuse myself at the pearl-wringing.
What IS concerning are the polls at the moment.Trump got a bounce from an RNC that should have sunk him.
Well, you need to wait on the polls. For example, a Morning Consult poll out this morning shows an unchanged race from last week: Clinton 46, Trump 45. Same as last week, so no bounce. I suggest wait until the DNC is over. Remember, Romney and McCain and Dukakis all led too.
I also wasn’t terribly impressed by Booker’s speech. He seemed to be trying to come up with more and more ways to be cleverly inspirational, but I didn’t hear any meat to the speech. And talk about shouting – Shouting is fine at a convention, but Booker hit that note right away and stuck with it the whole speech without variation. I was afraid he was hurting his throat.
I’ll try to keep an open mind though. It was a convention after all which is the place for that kind of speech. Booker can win me over as the campaign continues if he shows me nuanced speeches with more policy details and pledges for legislation that interest me.
Booker’s role last night wasn’t policy. Every prime time speaker took a different piece of the pie, or was assigned one – because, you know, they worked together to split up topics. Everyone knows that, right?
Stop it, DD. He lied about it, and everybody knows it. It was part of his platform, and he brought it up in his campaign incessantly, and then denied he ever did:
“I didn’t campaign on the public option.” – President Obama,
You don’t have to be such a Dem tribalist as to deny facts, or call me a liar.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2009/12/yes_obama_did_campaign_on_the.html
“Booker’s role last night wasn’t policy. ”
We’ll find out soon enough if he has a broader range.
Disappointed isn’t a Dem purist; he is a Republican troll.
I shed no tears about people not being able to keep their junk insurance. Getting rid of fake insurance plans is part of what makes Obamacare economically viable.
The “never campaigned on public option” was the equivalent of “I never had sex with that woman.” That hurt, but I got over it, because I’m not a Republican troll.
You don’t have to be such a Dem tribalist as to deny facts, or call me a liar.
The fact is, that what DD said is exactly right. There were not the votes in Congress for the public option. The public option was in early bills and in the bill passed by the House. The public option was killed in the Senate by Democrats. And DD made no claims about what Obama campaigned on or not.
Which does make you a Disappointed Liar.
Disappointed, C’Mon Man. With an utterly recalcitrant congress, Obama moved the ball in the direction of the goal line. He isn’t the magic negro of your dreams, but Obama was pretty dang good.
But I’m not going to waste anymore time today defending Obama’s term in office. History will judge his effectiveness. I’m going to start working for a big liberal victory in November. A Democratic White House, House and Senate. that should be our goal now.
Maybe then the loud, rude vast minority of Bernie supporters will finally know he lost and lost by a lot if we do a roll call.
NPR did a number of interviews with Bernie supporters on the floor and I was struck by how many of them still think they were at a contested convention.
“He lied about it”
If you don’t know the difference between campaign promises made with good intentions and untruths for the purpose of deception, then you are not qualified to vote, reproduce, or even have a place in society.
“There were not the votes in Congress for the public option. ”
The public option fight is history, but the lesson for the future is progressive legislation NEVER has the votes unless the President gets behind it and exercises leadership. Progressive policy doesn’t happen only if a majority of voters demand it. That is “leading from behind.”
“I was struck by how many of them still think they were at a contested convention.”
@Cassandra Really? Generally it’s wrong to characterize a group because most groups are not monolithic, but honestly, are a good number of them acting in a relatively juvenile manner, displaying the immaturity of their youth? I’ve watched their actions at rallies, events, etc. Their passion and conviction leave no room for critical thinking. The young I excuse because they don’t know better. The rest have no excuse.
The stakes are pretty high but considering their behavior thus far, I’m not sure what they will do when it comes to the election. After November we will understand whether they effected the outcome.
Without them, Clinton can still win, but so could Trump. We’ll find out whether they mattered. If Trump wins they will be reviled. If Clinton wins, they will be ignored. Either way, they will have made their bed.
Your usual bullshit:
the President gets behind it and exercises leadership.
And you still can’t answer what Obama could have done to get Nelson, Baucus’, Carper’s or Lincoln’s votes on this. SPECIFICALLY.
Carper’s vote was YOUR job. Carper STILL has his job after voting against this. And this is you still pretending that whinging on the internets counts as “holding them accountable”.
“but the lesson for the future is progressive legislation NEVER has the votes unless the President gets behind it and exercises leadership.”
Not to mention actually having Al Franken placed into an office he won and Ted Kennedy in good health.
But I think that you can know something about the future of the Bernie Revolution from puck’s usual answer. People who are looking for an all-powerful leader will do it all for them are most certainly not involved in a revolution worthy of the name. Capturing the flag looks the same all over the world, except for the Americans who want to hire someone to outsource that to.
Conversely, there are ALWAYS enough votes for legislation that benefits corporations at our expense, with or without Presidential leadership. That is the leadership model Cassandra is defending.
No one is defending anything, except maybe reality.
The truth is we do not know what Obama did behind the scenes. We know the outcome and are then filling in the blanks with our own narrative.
Broken campaign promises? Isn’t this EXACTLY what you’ve been calling on Hillary to do? To lay out lofty goals/promises in campaigning because everyone will have to compromise down? Right? That was the problem stated over the 12.00 vs 15.00 minimum/living wage thing, right? That you start at $15 and you’ll get $12.
Doesn’t Michelle looks like she’s ready to run for office?
With one daughter out of the house, and the other not far behind,..
…we’re not witnessing the conclusion of her public service.
“The truth is we do not know what Obama did behind the scenes. ”
Obama was so irked at Max Baucus he appointed him Ambassador to China.
“Progressive policy doesn’t happen only if a majority of voters demand it. That is “leading from behind.”
On the contrary, that’s exactly the only time progressive policy happens. And sometimes (gun registration) not even then.
“Obama was so irked at Max Baucus he appointed him Ambassador to China.”
If that was my dream job I’d never go to sleep.
Michael Moore with 5 reasons Trump is going to win:
http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/277-75/38192-focus-5-reasons-why-trump-will-win
@a “Michael Moore with 5 reasons Trump is going to win:”
MM is clever here. The ONLY way Hillary loses is if the Dems don’t turn out for her. There are more Dem voters than Repug voters, but the Repugs often win because the Dems are too lazy to actually get out and vote.
Last night was a truly great night for the Democrats because everything that happened will increase serve to Dem voting turnout in November.
1. The party came together in a clear manner (Bernie-or-bust now ridiculous)
2. Trump jumped ahead in the polling (ends complacency)
3. The DNC scandal was put behind them (bye-bye DWS)
A truly great day.
Now… Let’s see what today brings.
Can we talk about this guy for a bit? http://jamesspadola.com/gop-candidate-opposes-gop-social-platform-plans-lgbt-meet-and-greet/
I’ve interacted with him in his role as a Newark Police Officer and he seems like a good guy. He claims to be “fiscally conservative and liberal on many social issues.” Reading his Issues page seems pretty progressive to me.
Conversely, there are ALWAYS enough votes for legislation that benefits corporations at our expense, with or without Presidential leadership. That is the leadership model Cassandra is defending.
Way to make my point, puck. There are always enough votes for legislation that benefits corporations because those corporations show up for their own interests. Not so much progressives here, at least.
I read the Michael Moore thing yesterday and I’m having trouble agreeing. His points all seem to rest on the white, male vote? And, pretty much, only certain white male voters. In order for his math to work wouldn’t he need to include white, male Dems/liberals/progressives?
He touches on Hillary’s un-likability and Bernie voters’ depression (Talk about a media narrative), but all roads still seem to lead to the white, male vote.
When was the last time Dems counted on, let alone won with, this voting block? No mention of Trump losing college educated white men? Ignoring the never before seen percentage of Hispanic voters who will not vote for Trump? Or women, or blacks, or LGBT, or non-christians, etc. Those groups – who actually have been the base and reliable voting block for Dems aren’t factored in? Can we count the Republicans who voted for Obama because of Sarah Palin? I see similarities there, as well.
(Look, anything can happen in a two person race -Yep, I always say that – and this race was always going to be close because most Republicans were always going to support the man they trashed in the primary. The closeness doesn’t concern me right now. It was 100% predictable.)
Polls today are showing a different reality than the one Moore puts forth, but that will keep changing daily. This election will be won on GOTV. What’s Trump’s ground game look like?
“I didn’t campaign on the public option.” – President Obama.
Well, did he or didn’t he?
Answer: He did. Check the record.
It’s fine with me if Obama fought for and lost the public option. But that’s not what happened. And there is no doubt Obama campaigned on letting the Bush tax cuts expire. That’s all water under the bridge now. But it does inform me for the future. I now expect a more robust commitment from politicians before I accept their stated position. It’s not enough to just check the box. It’s not enough to claim you “believe ” in a thing; you have to tell the world that you will fight for it, loudly, over and over again. Case in point, Hillary and TPP.
Obama could sign an executive order today requirying all new federal vehicles will be electric vehicles, all new federal buildings will be carbon neutral powered with solar, all new power plant permits will be for renewables and all electric devices and applicance will meet new efficiency standards that are increasingly tighter. America would lead the world again.
Fair enough, Puck. And I take the point on the public option, given that all that was campaigned on was a plan that would achieve universal healthcare. I don’t recall if there were specific policy plans in the campaign, and in fact, if my memory is correct, Obama essentially let Congress write the law, and that law, which passed the House and included the public option, was based on Hillary’s plan from the campaign. So it is kinda ironic now, I think.
Obama could do all that and in a couple of weeks, folks would be on DL bitching and moaning about how he didn’t do it sooner, broke his promises to do that from the start, how the orders don’t go far enough, etc…
If there is one thing I’ve seen plenty of over the past seven years is that some folks seem awfully more concerned with the style and substance of a victory versus the actually victory itself. Basically, if the candidate said they were going to do “1A” during their campaign, then either they do “1A” and only “1A” or they will have broken their promise and unnecessarily compromised by achieving “1B”.
I don’t even know if that makes sense… This is my first full election as a DL visitor and it seems like in this small circle of people, the “where we were before” vs. “where we are now” gets a lot of short shrift at the expense of “but you promised me a three-cheese omlette with bacon but you only delivered a one-cheese omlette with turkey sausage, so you are a promise-breaking liar”… Christ, I sound drunk.
“but you promised me a three-cheese omlette with bacon but you only delivered a one-cheese omlette with turkey sausage, ”
I might eat it if I was hungry enough. But you wouldn’t be getting my tip, and I might go to another restaurant next time.
I hear ya, Prop Joe. Over promising on the campaign and then compromising down is bad, except when it’s not?
I love the DL community, but it’s not a diverse demographic. I always try and keep that in mind. It’s not a bad thing, just that it’s not really representative of my life. That’s not a slam. I learn a lot of interesting things and value the input. It’s just… as a woman, sometimes I need more diverse voices. (Ugh. I know this wasn’t said the best way possible, but hopefully everyone get what I’m saying.)
“Obama could sign an executive order today ”
Ahh!, I love the simple worlds of the idealistic. It’s kind of like the Nike motto “Just Do It!”
There are laws, regulations, contracts, agreements. We live in a complex world and governance by fiat has gone the way of the monarchy. Perhaps you were unaware that the U.S. Supreme Court deadlocked on a lower court’s decision to block Obama’s immigration executive order (which means the lower court decision stands).
So really, no Obama cannot just sign an executive order to do all those things you want done. It really isn’t that simple. But that demonstrates the mindset of revolutionaries, who once they win the revolution are left asking “Ok, now what do we do?” which then causes them to purge, burn all the books, and establish new and just as onerous rules as was in place before.
I prefer tomatos, onion and feta in my omelets. Organic or duck eggs please
It is one thing not to keep a promise or even try to keep it, as Obama did with the public option.
It is another thing to make a promise, not even try to keep it, and then flat-out lie that you ever made the promise to start with.
Obama did both.
I’m thinking that Dissapointed Liar and puck here could start a blog.
Another thing I love is when folks makes these strident claims like “not even try” or “flat-out lie” as if they have any intimate knowledge of how a piece of legislation came to ultimate fruition. Unless “Disappointed” is the screen name for Denis McDonough or David Plouffe, you’re just guessing like everyone else. But, perhaps an olive branch… Is there anything concrete upon which you base your “not even try to keep it” admonition?
God bless Philly
You may not have been through an election cycle with us (not kidding – buckle up), but it didn’t take you long to ask the question many of us have been asking for years.
Here’s how it goes:
1. Obama campaigned on the public option
2. Obama didn’t fight for the public option. How do they know this? The just know.
3. Obama lied, didn’t try, threw people under the bus, etc.
Obama secretly fighting for the public option is a fantasy debating point. The secret would have come out by now.
We’re not the ones claiming to know what happened. You are.
This is all getting silly. It is an arguable point that can be debated over whether Obama did enough to fight for the Public Option. As Jason says, that is left to historians to analyze. What I object to is the assertion that Obama lied. That is categorically false. Come on.
“Apparently Sean Hannity showed up at the Wawa on Walnut Street, and was booed out of the store”
He probably asked for Dijon mustard on his cheesesteak
“I did not have sex with that public option!”
It wasn’t a very big lie from a policy point of view. The fight was over and the damage already done. The mystery is why he even bothered to say it, and why he chose to deceive his progressive allies that way. I would have been happy with “Joe and I tried everything we could but we just couldn’t get the votes.” Maybe later there will be a tell-all book explaining how Joe Biden threatened to recruit a primary challenger for Carper or Obama threatened to endorse Lieberman’s primary opponent or threatened to cut back military contacts in Baucus’s district.
@p “and why he chose to deceive his progressive allies that way.”
You’ve got to be kidding… Are you for real? Do you even remotely remember the politics of this at the time in the Senate?… and the house?
The public option was dead on arrival. It had ZERO chance of being adopted. ZERO. NADA.
All Obama tried to convey was that he wasn’t going to fall on his sword and waste political capital on a fight that was wholly unwinnable.
…and so now he gets this shit from you???
Interesting how no one is mentioning Tom Carpers involvement in killing the public option.
Progressives, the Rodney Dangerfields of politics. They swipe left on everyone and then wonder why they can’t ever hook up.
We don’t live in an ideal world. We live in a real one.
Interesting how no one is mentioning Tom Carpers involvement in killing the public option.
Interesting how you haven’t read this thread.
This could be good for some OG monkeywrenching — Ask Donald Trump anything on Reddit this Wednesday
He’s a Democrat Republican
@mouse: What do duck eggs taste like, compared to organic hen eggs?
Duck eggs are larger and bit tougher. The yoke is a bit darker and richer. It’s not really a big difference. I get them at the farmer’s market in Lewes when they have them. The organic local grown eggs are much better than store egges in my view and cost about the same.
I had some leftover crabs the other day and made omlettes with the crab meat. So good
Fascinating that yesterday’s “bad start” had everything to do with a mere 10% of Bernie’s supporters and had nothing to do with the DWS scandal. But then DWS is a Hillary supporter so she gets a pass. Typical.