This Is Who We Are

Filed in National by on October 1, 2015

I am no longer shocked. This is the life we have chosen. It is the American Way.

Via NYT:

A gunman killed at least seven people and as many as 10 at a community college in Oregon, law enforcement officials said Thursday.

[Live updates from the scene are here.]

The first 911 calls reported shooting at Umpqua Community College at 10:38 a.m., and several law enforcement agencies responded.

Ray Shoufler, a fire marshal with the Douglas County Fire Department told MSNBC that as many as seven to 10 people could be dead. Mr. Shoufler also said that a number of injured people had been taken to nearby hospitals.

Cory Grogan of the Oregon Office of Emergency Management said that at least 20 people had been wounded. Most of the wounded were taken to nearby hospitals, he said, but some were still being treated at the college.

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About the Author ()

A stay-at-home mom with an obsession for National politics.

Comments (92)

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  1. Jason330 says:

    It is either this or government tyranny. That’s what I hear anyway.

  2. liberalgeek says:

    There are a lot of trees of liberty out there that need watering, apparently.

  3. pandora says:

    Death count rising, now at 13. Shooter (20 year old male) confirmed dead.

    I know we aren’t allowed to discuss guns… can we discuss men/masculinity issues instead? No?

  4. pandora says:

    Oh wow. Did he post his intentions on 4chan?

    https://archive.moe/r9k/thread/22785073/

  5. Prop Joe says:

    It would be helpful to America if they rounded up all the disgusting sociopaths who commented on that thread and shipped them off to join the Mars rover…

    Of course, absolutely nothing will be done legislatively or societally (if that is such a thing)… Our esteemed Congresspeople are too busy trying to prove Obama a socialist Muslim or blame Hillary for Middle Eadt violence.

  6. Jason330 says:

    We have one political party that thinks the status quo is fine, and another that is too scared to challenge them.

  7. Dorian Gray says:

    People care more about their own fetishes & out-dated stupid ideas than piles of corpses at schools, cinemas, churches, army bases…

    I’m sad and disgusted with all of us.

  8. Anonymous says:

    We have 2 parties that are just afraid of the NRA.

  9. CrackerJack says:

    How about that. From what I,’vs recently read, the killer singled out Christians for death. He is probably a life member of the NRA.

  10. Delawarelefty says:

    Appears that the Oregon community is protected by a “constitutional sheriff” who is dedicated to keeping guns in the hands of killers. Today’s blood is all over his hands too.

  11. That’s true. There was a clip of him on TV saying he wouldn’t enforce any gun regulations that he deemed to be unconstitutional.

  12. Geezer says:

    As Jefferson said, the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of gun nuts and innocents.

  13. jason330 says:

    They aren’t gun nuts, they are 2nd Amendment Activists.

  14. Geezer says:

    Over-activists, actually.

  15. LashLarue says:

    The NRA. Only organization in US history that gets blamed for actions none of its members commit.

  16. LashLarue says:

    When everything is a “micro-aggression” or some kind of slight, why are we surprised that the mentally unstable lash out? I blame politicians and society for fostering a belief that “life” owes everyone something. Every single one of these nutjobs was a loser who felt victimized by LIFE. Who instilled that shit in them? When you’re brought up thinking you get a trophy for just being there, you begin to think the world owes you something. All these shooters are deranged psychopaths, using their “motives” to further some political argument is perverse and stupid.

  17. Jason330 says:

    Okay. The easy access to guns has nothing to do with it. The fact that this is the only country in the world that has this problem is irrelevant.

    Got it. thanks!

  18. ben says:

    The NRA. Only organization in US history that gets blamed for actions none of its members commit.”

    they say, one day after the PP witch hunt…. in a culture that condemns all people of the Muslim faith for the actions of radical splinter groups. wake up.

  19. Dorian Gray says:

    Ohhh. Ohhh… we’ve got a live one on the line! Progressive culture creates mental illness. Sounds provocative. Go on, grandpa… I want to hear you elaborate on this.

  20. Dave says:

    As a practical matter, I assume that anyone who is carrying a firearm in public (with the exception of law enforcement) is someone who is ready, willing, and able to use that firearm with the slightest provocation. In short, I consider them unstable people with malicious intent.

    My response is to exit the immediate area; report the situation to law enforcement and let them sort it out.

    My rationale is that I cannot tell the nut jobs from those who are sane and have no evil intent, therefore I consider all carriers to be nut jobs jus to be on the safe side. I don’t think my logic is assailable because, for the sane ones to believe they need to carry means they are on some level, paranoid and fearful, which really is so close to classical mental illness that it becomes a distinction without a difference.

    Now the ones that feel their guns are primarily to stave off tyranny actually are nut jobs, which obviously are grounds for denying a license.

  21. bamboozer says:

    On a lighter note how about we expand Second Amendment Liberty and allow guns in the house, senate and supreme court? Why separate “our” craven politicians from that which they love? And let’s not forget NRA Headquarters, it seems they’ve banned guns from the building, for shame! Let freedom ring and let them feel the “safe” like we do. As I’ve said a thousand times: Until the victims are the rich, the politicians or their children nothing will change.

  22. Jason330 says:

    That’s what I would do as well – Even knowing that gun nuts have used FOIA to get the phone numbers and id’s of people who have made such calls in order to harass them.

  23. liberalgeek says:

    Several years ago, after one of these threads, I got a call at home from a gun nut while I was walking to the bus stop to get my daughter. My wife answered and luckily, the guy didn’t leave a message with her.

  24. pandora says:

    I’m going to go with what Dave says. If you are carrying a gun around, you are paranoid – you believe someone (bad guy? government?) is out to get you. That’s a mental illness.

  25. pandora says:

    I remember that, LG. These people are dangerous and scary. I just don’t understand why they are so afraid of everything.

  26. Jason330 says:

    The 2nd Amendment Activist was a 26 year old white male who was obsessed with guns and religion and had white supremacist leanings. He was probably a misogynist.

    Trump says there is nothing we can do: “You’re going to have these things happen and it’s a horrible thing to behold, horrible,” Trump said. “It’s not politically correct to say, but you’re going to have difficulty and that will be for the next million years, there’s going to be difficulty, and people are going to slip through the cracks.”

    Slip through the cracks? This isn’t a mental health crisis – it is a nihilistic assholes with easy access to guns crisis. Which, according to Trump, will be around for a million years.

  27. ben says:

    Among other things, it is also a mental health crisis. It is first, an access to guns crisis. It is a cultural crisis among men, white men in particular. I think the mental health of our country as a whole is in crisis.

  28. pandora says:

    I’m not sure about the mental health crisis argument. Will we apply that argument to all shootings and domestic violence situations? I guess we could, but we don’t. And if we did apply that standard across the board (and not just to these situations that tend to involve young white men) then we are the walking dead.

    Seriously, why did we discuss Tiger Moms with the VA tech shooting and Islam with Ft. Hood. We are quite comfortable discussing other cultures/religions as a factor, but when it comes to white male shooters then it’s mental illness.

  29. Jason330 says:

    Few if any of these 2nd Amendment Activists are on the mental health radar screen when they decide to exercise there 2nd Amendment rights. Mental health screenings would not prevent them from getting as many guns and as much ammunition as they want. The mental health argument is a dodge. The simple fact is that easy access to guns is what ties all of these shootings together.

    If there is a mental health “fix” to this, treatment should begin by limiting 2nd Amendment Activists exposure to Fox News.

  30. Tom Kline says:

    I wish Obama would spend sometime working on the gun issues in his hometown Chicago.

  31. Jason330 says:

    The US of A is his town now.

  32. Anonymous says:

    @ Dave
    “As a practical matter, I assume that anyone who is carrying a firearm in public (with the exception of law enforcement) is someone who is ready, willing, and able to use that firearm with the slightest provocation. In short, I consider them unstable people with malicious intent.”

    Assume=Ass out of U and Me

    Some people work in jobs that take them into the worst of areas. They carry for their own protection or they work collecting money, ie Brinks.

  33. Liberal Elite says:

    @Anon “Assume=Ass out of U and Me”

    Anonymous = Annoy us Much

    100% of all gun deaths are caused by people with guns.
    Now apply transposition logic to that, and you’ll get Dave’s point.

    Oh… And remember that the real tragedy here is that 90% of all gun deaths in America are still family and friends.

    It’s the families of gun owners who suffers the true brunt of our national tragedy.
    Mothers… Don’t let your daughters marry gun owners.

  34. SussexAnon says:

    “I assume that anyone who is carrying a firearm in public (with the exception of law enforcement) is someone who is ready, willing, and able to use that firearm with the slightest provocation.”

    You you going for irony with the law enforcement part, right?

    Bang bang, put your hands up!

  35. Anonymous says:

    Here are some stats since 1982:
    Asian 6
    Black 11
    Latino 4
    Native American 3
    Other 2
    Unknown 1
    White 44

    Just some other stats since 1982: There have been 71 mass shooting, 43 had a known “Prior sign of mental illness”, 11 more were “Unknown/unclear”.
    From MotherJones.com
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XV4mZi3gYDgwx5PrLwqqHTUlHkwkV-6uy_yeJh3X46o/edit?pli=1#gid=0

    There are a number of websites, which provide stats, some classify a mass shooting as 1 person killed. But there is no official set of criteria or definition for a mass shooting, according to criminology experts and FBI officials

  36. Dave says:

    I forgot about Brinks guards, although I suspect that the vast majority of them have never been involved in mass murder. Still, let’s just broaden it a bit and say ‘those who carry a firearm in the performance of their duties’ (which should not be read as someone with a firearm at a gas station in Florida who didn’t like hip hop music)

    And no SA it wasn’t irony, there are an estimated 765,000 sworn officers. I’m guessing many of them have faced provocation and yet are able to refrain from resorting to shooting. With about 400 killed by police in 2015, I think the odds are pretty good that I’m safe around a cop with a gun.

    Finally, @Anonymous (Assume=Ass out of U and Me). Well, I won’t speak for you. But it makes me safer to assume that if you feel the need to pack heat while eating at a restaurant, either you know something about the place that I don’t, in which case I should leave. Or you are the reason I should leave. Either way, logic dictates I should leave. Not everyone who carries a firearm is suffering from mental illness, but since I have no means to verify who is or is not a nut, I take the prudent path.
    Paranoia causes people to do things that non-paranoid people often live (and die) to regret. You are entitled to your paranoia. I simply choose not to be a participant in it.

  37. Anonymous says:

    I’m not a gun owner.
    There are hunters, gun collectors, target shooters and ex-military, etc who own guns responsibly. People who go out and take courses to learn to be responsible.

    @LE
    “And remember that the real tragedy here is that 90% of all gun deaths in America are still family and friends.”
    Back up your statistics or shut up!

  38. Liberal Elite says:

    @Anon “Back up your statistics or shut up!”

    Been there and done that here… and more than once.

  39. Dave says:

    “Been there and done that here… and more than once.”

    Ad nauseum. Still, worth doing once more.

    http://www.annualreviews.org/doi/pdf/10.1146/annurev-publhealth-031914-122535

    The highest rate of gun deaths is suicide by white males, which is included in the family and friends meme. After all you are a member of your own family. The data for the study comes from CDC statistical data.

    I sure the data won’t have any effect on you. Those who suffer from confirmation bias rarely accept or internalize information that conflicts with their beliefs.

  40. Liberal Elite says:

    Thanks Dave…

    The white male suicides fall into two distinct categories:
    1. Having a bad day (or a bad moment)
    2. Planned in advance

    A good dividing line is: “Did he know it was his last day when he woke up that morning?”

    The former plagues the young (peaks in early 30s), the latter frees the elderly.
    The former is a disaster, the latter should be respected.

    The suicide rate is actually highest for the sick elderly, but there are far fewer of them (smaller denominator) to make this amount to a significant fraction of total suicides.

    Case in point: I had a cousin (actually wife’s cousin) who just killed himself last week on a whim (fought with gf, half eaten sandwich, smashed cell phone,…). He was 32. His family and gf are devastated.

  41. pandora says:

    Dave, everyone knew what you meant about who should carry a gun. Willful ignorance is best ignored.

    LE, I’m so sorry about your cousin. Guns make impulse suicides so easy. Actually, guns make killing people easy. For an object that so many fetishize it’s dangerously impersonal.

  42. Anonymous says:

    @ Dave:
    ” sure the data won’t have any effect on you. Those who suffer from confirmation bias rarely accept or internalize information that conflicts with their beliefs.”
    That happens all the time on DL, that people will spew a stat and not back it up. That is all I asked. Even though I never saw that report.

    Yes, it is a very ugly statistic.

    @LE Sorry for your loss.

    Again, I’m not a gun owner. I do believe that background checks should be completed, NO MATTER HOW LONG IT TAKES TO BE DONE!

    @ Pandora…………….

  43. pandora says:

    Every time one of these shootings happens I keep coming back to the same thing – toxic masculinity. And this applies to situations like the recent Oregon shooting, urban “gang” related shootings, domestic violence shootings, as well as suicides.

    There’s two things in common with almost all of these shootings: access to guns and men – men who have made guns an extension of who they are. Everyone of them has a target (whether specific or general) and every one of them sees a gun as the solution. Even if they haven’t used the gun yet, all of them know who they will use it against. All of them seem to have a kill list.

    And that’s what’s so troubling. There’s so much fear interwoven with fantasy, and, dare I say… delusion. It doesn’t help that the internet is full of MRAs, PUAs and anti-PUAs, and so, so many gun blogs/groups; groups designed to feed into the paranoia.

    Much of this fear I simply don’t understand. Many “gunners” live in crime free environments, yet these guys are some of the most rabid fearmongers. Why is that? Why would a person who lives in Hockessin or Chadds Ford live in a state of constant threat? No real threat exists, so owning a gun for protection isn’t a rational decision. I think it’s tied to how they view themselves and how they use a gun to define who they are – or rather who they want to be.

    Basically, why is a gun so important to this group? Why is it so entrenched in “masculinity” and being a hero? Of course, I know there are responsible gun owners, but even a lot of their reasoning for owning a gun comes across as paranoia. Seriously, if you own a gun because you want to protect your family from the crazy person breaking into your house then you’ll really need to have guns in every room of your house, loaded and easily accessible. Otherwise, if the “bad guy” breaks in while you’re cooking dinner then the gun in your upstairs bedroom is useless. Right? (And yep, that’s part of the NRA’s message. You need to own lots of guns. They need to be loaded and accessible at all times, and if you accidentally shoot your kid, spouse, etc. well that’s just collateral damage – and they should have known better.)

  44. Anonymous says:

    Ok, so all of us have pointed out statistics and why some have guns. But, let’s discuss what is really needed.
    What is the cause?
    How do we at least find a common ground (we can’t please everyone)?

  45. c'est la vie says:

    Does anyone know if Short or Townsend have a position or policy related to gun control? I may have missed it, but I didn’t see a statement or any kind of message from either candidate on their websites or on social media.

  46. pandora says:

    There is no common ground when it comes to the NRA and gunners (a term the group we’re discussing calls themselves). There is no acceptable or reasonable limitations to gun ownership for these two groups. The NRA uses fear and paranoia to keep the gun manufacturers happy – this keeps them in business since one gun is never enough.

    A few causes of this: Unreasonable fear that “someone” is gonna get ya (in your home, at Olive Garden, at the movie theater, etc.), insecurity, the belief that a gun = a real man, straight up delusion (you (the hero) and your gun will save the day!), and a weird fascination/fetish with military lingo, tactics and clothing/accessories. The military/tactical stuff is the latest addition and one of the most disturbing.

    These people have a lot in common with doomsday preppers. Something bad is going to happen! I honestly don’t understand how people live in constant fear. It can’t be healthy.

    And I’m tossing out the “mental illness” argument. It’s going onto the pile with video games and movies. The entire world has people with mental illness, who play video games and watch movies and, yet, they do not have the gun violence we have – not even close.

  47. Anonymous says:

    @ c’est la vie The last time Townsend opened his mouth on the recent UD issue, he came out with egg on his face. I’m sure he is not going to be allowed to do that again.

  48. No Party says:

    The comments I just read make me wonder who you people are.
    Are you all out of touch, oblivious, or don’t understand what is going on?
    ONLY gun free zones are attacked by these shooters. They don’t want any resistance.
    Wake up and support the people that are doing their best to prevent or stop these acts of violence.
    They are the military, police, and all the Concealed Carry permit owners.

  49. SussexAnon says:

    “Been there and done that here… and more than once.”

    Then you should have no problem finding your post, or data and sharing it with the rest of the class. If you have it, I would like to see it.

    I found a study by the DOJ showing 2009-2010 homicide rates at (males) 25% chance and (women) 12% chance of being killed by a stranger.

  50. Dave says:

    In my opinion, the cause is our culture.

    Our culture celebrates and rewards violence as a legitimate response to every slight. No one is exempt, from the ecowarriors spiking trees, to those who live in an urban jungle, to the Nevada constitutional patriots who are creaming their jeans to water the tree of liberty and let’s not forget those who espouse and commit extreme measures in an attempt to halt abortion.

    Until our culture evolves to a point where we are not so eager to take offense, which then requires us to give offense we will continue to kill and maim those who dissed us, even if they don’t know they dissed us.

    Once upon a time a gun was necessary to feed one’s family and defend one’s home. Today it is nothing more than a vestigial tool serving no real useful purpose except possibly as a crutch for those who feel emasculated (everyone did notice that those involved in homicides, whether suicides or murder, are predominately male).

    So when our culture changes to one where a sign of one’s masculinity is the lack of need for a firearm, that’s when we will start to see a decrease in both firearms and firearm violence. Real men don’t need guns.

  51. Delawarelefty says:

    Damn “No Party” how could you sit and type that moronic post with all the wind whistling through your ears?

  52. Liberal Elite says:

    @SA “I found a study by the DOJ showing 2009-2010 homicide rates at (males) 25% chance and (women) 12% chance of being killed by a stranger.”

    Seems about right. Now add in all suicides (60% of all gun deaths), then add in nearly all gun accidents (killing mostly family and friends), and guess what you get??

    Answer: 90% of all gun deaths in the US are family and friends.

    The math is easy… even for someone from Sussex County.

  53. Liberal Elite says:

    @p “I honestly don’t understand how people live in constant fear. It can’t be healthy.”

    The irony here is that by being a gunner, you suddenly are about 5-10 times more likely to be killed by a gun. The vast majority of people who are killed by gun, are people who have guns.

  54. pandora says:

    Via Josh Marshall:

    Our latest gun massacre raises the troubling effectiveness of the possible use of profiling to limit access to fire arms …

    1. Are you a man?

    2. Are you white?

    3. Are you between the ages of 15 and 30?

    4. Are you currently in a mutually satisfying romantic relationship?

    5. Do you feel alone?

    6. Do you feel angry?

    7. Do you frequently visit 4chan?

    8. Do you spend a substantial part of every day thinking about firearms

  55. Anonymous says:

    Ok, so what is the solution?

  56. LeBay says:

    @Anonymous-

    The solution is a constitutional amendment that bans or severely limits handgun ownership…

    But there’s no way in hell that’s going to pass in my lifetime, and it won’t do anything to stop gun violence among criminals. Criminals don’t care about the law, so they’ll always find a way to get a handgun.

    FWIW, I’m fine with an amendment that bans handguns. I’ve never owned one and I don’t plan on buying one.

  57. LeBay says:

    I hope someone gets a chuckle (or at least a giggle) out of this:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xC03hmS1Brk

  58. Liberal Elite says:

    @LeBay “and it won’t do anything to stop gun violence among criminals.”

    That just isn’t true. If it was so true, then why aren’t criminals in Australia using guns to commit crimes??

    Sure you can buy guns on the black market in Australia, but they are way too expensive for the average criminal.

    The same thing would happen here. Illegal guns prices would skyrocket and they wouldn’t be used by ordinary criminals.

  59. Liberal Elite says:

    @Anon “Ok, so what is the solution?”

    Easy… Do what the rest of the 1st world has done. It works.

    Why should we continue to wallow in a 3rd world culture???

  60. SussexAnon says:

    “Answer: 90% of all gun deaths in the US are family and friends.”

    Including suicide? I guess for liberal elites, the math is easy. Especially if you pull numbers out of your ass.

    Again, if you have a link to a study or a report that supports your claim, I would love to see it.

  61. SussexAnon says:

    Every body is aware there was a shooting in Gun Free Australia last week, right?

  62. Liberal Elite says:

    @SA “Every body is aware there was a shooting in Gun Free Australia last week, right?”

    And when was the one before that? Last December?

    For every gun homicide in Australia, there are MORE than 400 gun homicides in the US (Our rate is more than 30 times larger than theirs).
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependencies_by_population

    Do you see this as a non-solution, since is isn’t even larger than that???

  63. Liberal Elite says:

    @SA “Including suicide?”

    Yes. Of course. A suicide is usually a family tragedy.

    “I guess for liberal elites, the math is easy.”

    Yes it is.

    “Again, if you have a link to a study or a report that supports your claim, I would love to see it.”

    Can I use yours?? What did you say:
    “I found a study by the DOJ showing 2009-2010 homicide rates at (males) 25% chance and (women) 12% chance of being killed by a stranger.”

    OK, and we know that women and men die by guns at nearly equal rates (men shooting at their women is the #1 gun homicide). Oh you want data for that?
    http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf
    Some years more women die, other years, more men.

    Gun homicides account for about 34% of all gun deaths
    Suicides account for about 64%
    Accidents etc… account for 3%
    You want data for that?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

    So.. gun deaths by strangers for men = 34% x 50% x 25% = 4.2%
    And.. gun deaths by strangers for women = 34% x 50% x 12% = 2.0%

    Add those together to get the fraction of gun deaths by strangers.
    We get 6.2% of all gun deaths are done by strangers.

    Subtract that from 100% and you get that 93.8% are not gun deaths by strangers.

    Subtract out a few police killings (~2%)(unless you want to consider you local neighborhood cop as a friend), etc… and guess what you get?
    .
    That 90% of all gun deaths is family and friends.

    It’s a solid result. You can do that again and again using an additive or a subtractive method, or using different data sources, and you always seem to end up with about 90%.

    And THAT is why people who think they are protecting their families by buying guns are actually putting the families at HIGHER risk.
    It’s basically a major health issue.

  64. pandora says:

    This idea that having a gun in your home makes you and your family safer is nuts, and we get this when it comes to other things. Have a pet boa constrictor in your house and your, and your family’s, odds of being injured/dying by snake increase. Have a dog? Then your odds of a dog bite increase. Why don’t gun owners get this? You want a gun in your house? Fine. But flippin’ acknowledge the risks. This is a stunning disconnect.

  65. pandora says:

    Take a look at this petition. I signed.

    We, the American people for gun sanity, demand that the Republican Party (GOP/ RNC) and National Rifle Association (NRA) “put up or shut up” about gun control. From this time forward, all Republican debates and National conventions MUST allow full open and concealed carry rights for every attendee. Every journalist, camera person, moderator, candidate and janitor must be allowed to carry any type of loaded firearm to all RNC/ GOP and NRA events, throughout the duration of those events. No background checks should be required, as the RNC believes that our laws are adequate. If the Republican party and NRA truly believe that guns make us all safer and more polite, then let them prove it.

    Given everything the NRA and GOP say about guns they should support this 100%. There’s absolutely no reason for them not to.

  66. Dave says:

    They can’t acknowledge the risks because of the cognitive flaw of normality bias which causes them underestimate the possibility. Of course there is also the cognitive flaw of overerreaction bias. Still, those who fail to acknowledge the risks are relying on regression towards the mean and on average, real bad things are not going to happen to them. Having convinced themselves of this, they recognize only that information which confirms their belief.

    In short, they double down in thought and deed. They acquired guns for a purpose and despite the data which demonstrates that they increased their personal and family risk, they are left with no choice but to reaffirm their convictions. Unfortunately if and when they are proved to be wrong, they are not usually around to say “I was wrong” or to hear “I told you so.” If only the dead could speak.

  67. pandora says:

    True, Dave. But here’s the deal: Most of us have never called for confiscating all guns. Most of us have never said that all gun owners are irresponsible. Most of us have acknowledged certain people’s “need” to own a gun. Most of us understand hunting and collecting and sport. Our side tends to see the gray area (not all, but most). With gunners there is no gray area. That’s the problem. They simply refuse to acknowledge the risks in owning a gun. They refuse to see how a “responsible” gun owner can turn into an irresponsible gun owner in the blink of an eye (loss of job, divorce, depression, etc.).

    It’s this disconnect that makes me place this group into the irresponsible group. Denying and dismissing facts about owning a gun, imo, makes you disqualified for gun ownership. It’s delusional. It tells me that you haven’t acknowledged the risks and, therefore, are probably careless with your firearms. Seriously, if you don’t believe the fact that owning a gun puts you and your family at risk then you’re part of the problem.

    Most of the responsible gun owners I know talk more about securing their guns and safety/risk of personal/family harm then they do about how cool their gun is or how they’re prepared to “body pierce by Glock” or about the crazy tactical maneuvers they’ll employ when their home is invaded. Responsible gun owners aren’t defined by their guns. In fact, most responsible gun owners don’t talk about their guns. Hmmm… I might start there. If you are constantly verbally stroking your firearms while denying statistical reality – no guns for you, Rambo.

  68. Dave says:

    In short they suffer from emasculation compensation.

  69. pandora says:

    I get that that’s funny, but it also so very true. Guns become an extension of their identity. I wasn’t kidding when I mentioned toxic masculinity. We need to start addressing this issue, and that includes their fear, insecurities, the self-aggrandizing mentality, the entitlement and victimization – the crazy idea that they would stay calm in an active shooter situation; that they would take out the shooter, and not innocent bystanders, in all the chaos.

  70. Anonymous says:

    @Pandora. Why go the extreme with this petition? Why not find some middle ground?
    There has to be a start somewhere.

  71. pandora says:

    Why is this petition extreme? It is exactly what they are telling everybody else to do. One of their biggest claims is that no-gun zones are the reason these shootings happen. If we believe what they are saying, then they should be fine with this… right? If they aren’t, why not? After all, in their world this scenario would result in them being surrounded with good guys with guys, again right?

    And I’ll tell you what, sport… rather than keep asking questions (and ignore the answers you’ve been given) why not provide your definition of common ground?

  72. Anonymous says:

    Anyone who wants to purchase a gun, needs to pass a background check and have to have a license to own the gun. They need to go through x hours of safety training.
    No “gifting” a gun.
    Private sellers at shows have to follow the same procedure.

    It’s difficult to control the person that “snaps” because they lost their job, girlfriend/boyfriend, etc.

    Is that a place to start, I don’t know. The problem is the politicians, except for Obama, are trying to get re-elected.

    Signed: Sport

  73. puck says:

    We need a Supreme Court interpretation that semi-automatic weapons are not “arms” for the purpose of the Second Amendment. That is a lot more do-able than trying to repeal or alter the Second Amendment. Then Congress would be free to impose restrictions on those weapons. Hunting rifles and shotguns would not be affected. Semi-automatic and large-capacity weapons need to be illegal just as machine guns are already. That would knock down the fetish value of those guns somewhat.

    Also, if Obama and Dems want to politicize it, we are going to get our asses kicked in that fight unless we have a coherent legislative package we can all get behind. I say we start with a few more Supreme Court justices on our side and try to get the Second Amendment reinterpreted in a more modern way.

  74. Davy says:

    @Jason330:

    “Okay. The easy access to guns has nothing to do with it. The fact that this is the only country in the world that has this problem is irrelevant.”

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/jun/22/barack-obama/barack-obama-correct-mass-killings-dont-happen-oth/

  75. Jason330 says:

    Davy – Before I debunk your bullshit by pointing out the glaring logical fallacy and laziness of your assumption, please answer the following questions. I need to gauge my risk of being shot.

    1. Are you white?
    2. Are you male?
    3. Do you have trouble forming and maintaining meaningful relationships with members of the opposite sex?
    4. Do you think or talk about guns least twice a day?

    If you answer yes to any three of questions, I’d rather not risk it. If you answered yes to all four, please see a qualified counselor.

  76. Dorian Gray says:

    It amazes me the lengths some people will go to try to argue for guns (or even more guns) and against those trying to stop mass slaughter as corpses continue to pile up. It’s weird and disturbing.

  77. Jason330 says:

    When you’ve staked your identity and sense of self-worth on being on one side of an argument or holding certain beliefs, it doesn’t matter inhuman and cruel those beliefs becomes. Letting go of the myths and sayings that define you is terrifying. I’m not surprised that these gun nuts, who operate out of a sense of fear to begin with, can’t face that prospect.

    Also, of course, they appear to be simple minded and easily manipulated by parties that profit from the status quo. So there is that.

  78. pandora says:

    It amazes me too, Dorian. The gun is obviously an extension of them. It defines them, makes them better? stronger? important? sexier? I just don’t get it. And sometimes I wonder if the people unfazed by these mass shootings, (the people who don’t take a second to be shocked and saddened, but instead rush to defend guns, guns, guns!) aren’t the ones we should be watching. Closely.

  79. Dave says:

    I believe in the Constitution and the 2nd Amendment. And in the spirit of originialism, I do not believe we can infringe on anyone’s right to own a musket with whatever size magazine can used with it.

  80. Jason330 says:

    …and if they don’t want to drill with the militia, they should still be able to own a cudgel. It is what the founders wanted.

  81. mouse says:

    Mostly sociopaths with stunted moral and intellectual development

  82. Davy says:

    @Jason330:

    I didn’t make an assumption. I just linked to an article on Politifact.

  83. Jason330 says:

    You clearly linked without reading the article. But before I get into that…

    1. Are you white?
    2. Are you male?
    3. Do you have trouble forming and maintaining meaningful relationships with members of the opposite sex?
    4. Do you think or talk about how great guns are least twice a day?

  84. Davy says:

    @Jason330:

    I did read the article. You actually made the mistake that the Republicans accused the President of making.

    This is not the only country in the world that has mass shootings; however, this country has more mass shootings than other countries.

  85. Liberal Elite says:

    Men shooting their women (the #1 gun crime in US involving death) is bad enough.

    Now we have boys shooting girls.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2015/10/05/11-year-old-charged-with-murdering-8-year-old-after-arguing-about-puppies/

    Where’s the respect?

  86. Jason330 says:

    Davy,

    1. Are you white?
    2. Are you male?
    3. Do you have trouble forming and maintaining meaningful relationships with members of the opposite sex?
    4. Do you think or talk about how great guns are least twice a day?

  87. Dorian Gray says:

    President Obama said, and I quote..

    “We are the only advanced country on Earth that sees these kinds of mass shootings every few months.”

    https://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2015/10/01/watch-president-obamas-statement-shooting-oregon

    …people seem to miss the ‘every few months’ bit. He never said that mass shooting don’t happen elsewhere. He said, if you understand the fucking English language, that they don’t happen at nearly this sickening frequency.

    Perhaps if people had a decent reading comprehension we wouldn’t have to waste fucking time parsing his language on FactChecker.com… We have a very disgusting problem in this country and trying to nitpick language to score some sort of point isn’t really going to address the carnage.

  88. ben says:

    Kind of like how the gun-humpers also forget about that “well regulated” bit in their beloved Second Amendment.
    They only see and hear what they want… which it threats. At all times, from all places.

  89. Jason330 says:

    As a white male with relationship problems who also talks about how great guns are least twice a day, allowing in the truth of what the President said is out of the question.

  90. pandora says:

    “Other people think I’m crazy, but I’m not. I’m the sane one” Chris Harper-Mercer and every other gunner out there.

    Oh, and he was upset he didn’t have a girlfriend. He even detailed his grievances about that. Anyone surprised?

  91. mouse says:

    They are so crazy and mean that no sane woman would want anything to do with them so they hate women in response..

  92. no party says:

    Listen to what Dr. Sanjay Gupta has to say about gun control. He has some very interesting points. Plus he is absolutely correct.
    http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/05/health/gupta-stopping-violence/index.html