Marco Rubio wins stupidest response to Indiana’s “right to discriminate” law
The results have been tabulated, and Marco Rubio beat out a determined field to claim the prize of stupidest response to Indiana’s “right to discriminate” fiasco. Here is the blue ribbon quote:
“No one here is saying that it should be legal to deny someone service at a restaurant or at a hotel because of their sexual orientation. I think that’s a consensus view in America.”
“The flip side of it is, though, should a photographer be punished for refusing to do a wedding that their faith teaches them is not one that is valid in the eyes of God? … What about the religious liberties of Americans who do not want to feel compelled by law to provide a catering service or a photography service to a same-sex marriage that their faith teaches is wrong?”
Basically, it should be illegal to discriminate unless you are a photographer or caterer.
Josh Marshall makes an excellent point. He’s surprised by how Republicans are creating a new standard.
So… a law that came about to let people discriminate against LGTB people now has its supporters saying that discrimination is indefensible? Is that really their argument?
But this isn’t the only law that strikes me as defeating Republican’s core beliefs. Have you read about Arizona’s reversible abortion bill?
Needless to say there’s no science or peer reviewed research behind this reversible abortion claim – just more laws making doctors lie to their patients. (It also bans “women from buying insurance plans that cover abortions on the federal health exchange.”)
Given the GOP’s obsessive need to control women and abortions how does this reversible abortion fit into their plans? I mean, if you’re going to make a doctor present a medical abortion as reversible wouldn’t that result in more women saying, “What the hell, I’ll just get the abortion and if I change my mind I’ll simply reverse it – it’s reversible, like a coat.”
I don’t get where they’re coming from. A law designed to discriminate against the LGTB community has prompted Republicans to say that sort of discrimination is indefensible. Followed by a bill that tells women to basically go ahead and have an abortion since you can change your mind and reverse it?
I suppose it was inevitable, but the fraudulent “family values” pretext the right has used to justify their crackpot views seems to be coming apart at the seems.
” (largely false)”
Actually completely false. The first bill was regarding religious practices (mushrooms and peyote of all things). I’m not sure the wording was stellar, but generally the government cannot interfere with recognized religious practices even if it includes the use of psychoactive alkaloids. However, cake and flowers can hardly be considered religious practices if it provided to the general public. While weddings are a form of religious practice, wedding receptions, at which cakes figure prominently are not. Ditto photographs and flowers. I’m not aware of any religion that requires or employs photographs in their worship ceremonies.
Still, I’m glad to see that business and organizations recognize the economic might they possess and are using that might as cudgel, even if it is because of money.
Agreed. Totally false, but these people love to lie. I happened to listen to Rick Jensen yesterday in the car lie about Hobby Lobby’s claim that Plan B and Ella were abortifacients. That was a flat out lie. They are not. But Rick didn’t let facts get in his way.
A very Republican relative of mine said flat out that he believes discrimination should be legal for any business for any reason based on the idea that it is his private business and he should be able to choose who he does and does not do business with. Now, I disagree wholeheartedly, but at least his reasoning is honest and not shrouded behind the veil of “religious liberty.” He also pointed out that he owns a business and thinks it is absurd to discriminate because it hurts business.
So while all this goes on, what are being distracted from is my question….
Saudi Arabia going to war in Yemen?
Iran Nuclear Talks?
While I think both are important, discrimination based on sexual orientation has the potential to impact more Americas directly than Iran or Yemen. Wouldn’t exactly call it a “distraction”. I’m reminded of the cartoon that came out in during our imperial age that carried the reminder “civilization begins at home.” Still true today…so does economic security and prosperity.
“Saudi Arabia going to war in Yemen?
Iran Nuclear Talks?”
I should give a fuck about these things because why?
why do you give a fuck about Indiana?
Breaking News: “Americans only care about shit that happens in America”
seriously. This is the ONLY discussion on the ENTIRE website. ya’ll need to diversify your news.
Seriously. This is the ONLY website on the entire internet.
out of curiosity…. what do you think happens the first time a Muslim person uses this law? What happens when Wikans want to enter into a polyamorous triad marriage? (not the creepy Mormon kind)
It’s so embarrassingly clear that this is intended for stupid White Christians. As bad as it is, these laws being passed or proposed are much more like the final thrashes of a mortally wounded beast.
The right has no problem throwing their fraudulent family values game under the bus the moment it is no longer useful in sustaining tax cuts for the rich and corporate deregulation. That they will defend to the death.
Even Walmart is publicly against this bullshit. …. when Walmart starts raising it’s minimum wage and supporting equality, you know some battles are being decisively won.
Thinking about this, i kinda feel like it’s free speech. Hate speech, especially, should be allowed. How else are we to identify people, companies, and entire states to avoid and punish economically?
Like all red blooded easterners, my first reaction to this story was…that Indiana pizza is probably shit anyway.
“why do you give a fuck about Indiana?”
Because the assholes who run Indiana would like to run the country.
If you can’t answer the question, just say so.
@Jason: Your proof that Indiana pizza is shit is named Papajohn’s. He’s from southern Indiana, just like Pence.
Who the f**k wants people who hate them catering their wedding?
@Puck: I have been to well over 100 weddings in my life, from the Gold Ballroom to the Grand Forks, N.D., firehall. Even the parties following Justice of the Peace weddings didn’t serve pizza.
It was a PR move, based on the premise that there’s no such thing as bad publicity.
What self-respecting gay couple would even want PIZZA at their wedding? If anything, the shitty people who own shitty eateries have absolutely nothing to worry about when it comes to being hired by a gay couple. They know the best designers, chefs and designers.
What about the religious liberties of Americans who do not want to feel compelled by law to provide a catering service or a photography service to a same-sex marriage that their faith teaches is wrong?”
Your bigotries are served if you just tell the inquiring couple that you are busy that day. The trouble for these bigots is that they want you (and everyone else apparently) to know that they are refusing you service because you are gay. It is amazing, really, that people of the New Testament are looking for permission to bypass its central message from the big, bad government.
“It is amazing, really, that people of the New Testament are looking for permission to bypass its central message from the big, bad government.”
My best guess is that liberals and conservatives use different translations of the Bible, because mine doesn’t say anything about rich people being God’s favorites. Quite the opposite, actually.
BTW, Cassandra, thanks for your work on that police commission. Well done.
They already do run the country, a very large part of it
This becomes a very big deal when we look at this situation outside of cities (or areas with lots of retail/medical options) and outside photographers and wedding cakes. If you live in a small town what happens when a pharmacist or doctor refuses to serve you? Everyone knows this has nothing to do with photographers and wedding cakes, right?
WHO CARES. Who does this affect? Like 5 gay people in Indiana? Seriously, we worry so god damned much about trannies, gay people, cross dressing labradoodle owners, and people who ties their shoes with one hand it’s mind numbing. All of a sudden we get all up in arms over the smallest portion of our general public! OMG!!!! The outrage!!!! We are marginalizing the 1% of our nation. The horror, omg how we descriminate!!!! Those poor moron’s that couldn’t force the fag haters to take their pictures at their gay wedding.
Really? Maybe we should blame the gays for creating this stupid law. GO TO A DIFFERENT PHOTOGRAPHER NEXT TIME…ONE THAT EMBRACES GAY PEOPLE
Seriously, a couple of bigots don’t have to serve pizza to a gay couple now. Tragedy to the highest degree. Our rights are being trampled on.
If you people were so fucking worried about your individual rights and cared about other peoples rights Obama would be in Jail right now. The NSA would have been burnt to the ground and the CIA would have it’s entire organization in Prison.
Spare me the tragedy and theatrics because a few moronic gay people insisted they be allowed to enjoy eating their delivered pizza in between acting out their foot fetish fantasy’s at Pawnee’s local Glamour Shot establishment
Does this affect hiring practices too? If they won’t preform services for people who offend their “religion”, would they also be able to refuse to hire them as well? Obviously I know it is against federal law but where does it end with these Christian Taliban Members.
Wow don….. tell us how you really feel.
Who will not shut up? The gays, or the Christianist who keep bringing these cases forward? Look down my man. Look down. You’ve got your shoes on the wrong feet. ™
It doesn’t end, gigi (and welcome, btw. Enjoying your comments). Wedding cakes and photographers are just the shiny objects being raised for people to make light of the situation, dismiss it and, as usual, miss the real agenda. Donviti’s snarkily written comment above demonstrates this. (Love you, DV)
You’re right about hiring LGTB people, gigi. How about religious organizations that believe women shouldn’t work? Or racists only hiring or serving their race? Serving and hiring people becomes a huge deal when there’s only one pharmacist in town, or one doctor, bank, grocery store, etc.. It could make certain areas unlivable (and not just because you couldn’t get a wedding cake – gotta love the GOP for getting people to buy in, and quote, that nonsense) for certain groups of people.
fyi…don’t say Ho#o’s….it goes into DL’s naughty bin
So your point is…? Don’t talk about this little injustices because there are big injustices going undiscussed? Don’t kill this cockroach because there are millions within the wall that you don’t see?
I think the point is, yet again, we’re doing it wrong. 😉
maybe he just supports discrimination against gay people. He’s allowed…. like I said, I’m all for these people outing themselves so we all know who to marginalize.
If Donviti hates gay people so much, how come we had sex the other night? I mean…. uh…. never mind.
it’s religion. WE (me included) flip out when it has to do with Religion. It has nothing to do with it being wrong. It has something to do with why is THIS is what gets the media, then all of us, up in arms…
Why not the larger transgressions that affect all of us? That we all should be able to coalesce around. Illegal wars? meh. Illegal torture? eh. Spying on all Americans? who cares. Homeless Veterans…they deserve it. No bankers go to jail for rigging entire currency markets…oh well, the banks got fined
But a few gay people can’t get pizza, it turns into a scene from the movie Airplane
But, the magic ingredient is religion. Mix that in, and we all go apoplectic.
It’s a shame.
It was one time! and I was in a phase! AND so what if it was good!!!
apoplectic? I’d say we get animated because we know this is one we can win. Getting angry about that other stuff is spitting in the ocean.
If you think this is just about pizza, you dont get it. If this kind of stuff is allowed to happen without solid national outrage, it wont stop at pizza.
by win you mean cry about it after the law was passed?
Oh wait, Angies List isn’t expanding it’s footprint from one cube to 2….you got me
If you think that stopping this (which already passed and was signed into law) means that all will be right in the anals (pun intended) of civil rights I have an ACLU tattoo I’d like to buy you
We’ll have to agree to disagree. tm
#gaypeoplegettingpizzadeliveredmatters
see? the trolls are wailing as they see their Leave it to Beaver America crumble.
it never existed, but I assume you know that TV isn’t reality
#heisourtroll
“If you people were so fucking worried about your individual rights and cared about other peoples rights Obama would be in Jail right now.”
Really? How would we get from caring about that to putting Obama in jail?
“The NSA would have been burnt to the ground and the CIA would have it’s entire organization in Prison.”
Disbanding the CIA is a must; I’m pretty sure we can get by with the dozen-plus intelligence agencies we would have left. The NSA is more problematic, because as long as there’s a black budget, they will find a way for another agency to do the same thing.
This goes beyond just LGBT people. Every single person who could offend their “religion” are screwed- Jews, Catholics, Muslims etc. And there are business besides pizza shops and photographers. Homeowner Associations are corporations, golf courses are corporations, etc etc. Its been less that 50 years since Jews and Italians weren’t allowed to be members of WASPy country clubs. This opens that door wide open. Thanks Republican Jesus!
@Geezer — thank you!
pandora, #trolllivesmatter?
nothing get’s you people worked up like religion, that’s for sure
Well… it is the root of all evil. 👿
Atheism, now better than ever. Just say no and leave it all behind. Ah! Feels so good!
From what I’ve seen, nothing gets religious people more worked up than their religion. Fuck ’em. You want to believe in invisible men, go right ahead, but I have no reason to respect it.
A very strong case can be made that modern Republicanism and abusive Priests have driven Americans away from Christianity. All the the charity, humanity and poetry seems to have been removed. What’s left? Mindless ritual? The reflexive acceptance of ecclesiastical authority? Fuck that noise.
It’s fairly obvious that this crap isn’t going to fly anymore. But the right wing talk radio educated ilk disdains education for a reason. They are incaple of learning. They should have their noses rubbed in it every time
“Well… it is the root of all evil”
Last weekend my church packed 100,000 meals to fight world hunger. The meals are for refugees and shipped to the Middle East and West Africa. $25,000 was raised and over 300 volunteers participated. I see no evil there, nothing but love for all people.
It’s like when you send cancer into remission. you dont go “oh, an odd mole… im not gonna worry about it, the NSA is reading my porn history”.
NO! you cut that shit out and aggressively stop it before it spreads again. Marriage inequality is a national cancer that is finally being beaten for good. Mike Pence is a dark ugly, misshapen mole on our national butt cheek (the right one)
Stat, Thanks for the comment. There are obviously a few congregations hanging on to some semblance of what past generations regarded as Christianity. They will meekly inherit the Earth while the loudmouth conservatives posing as pious disciples of Christ drive everyone else away from religion.
donviti = the only one with common sense in this thread
I have to admit though, it’s been very amusing to watch the self-righteous bloviating from the left and idiotic backpeddling from the right on such a triviality.
Mike Huckabee is not backpeddling:
“It won’t stop until there are no more churches, until there are no more people who are spreading the Gospel,” Huckabee said
“I’m talking now about the unabridged, unapologetic Gospel that is really God’s truth,”
It sounds like he is going to try and out crazy Ted Cruz on this. That’s a tall order. Cruz thinks this law protects the clergy.
‘We will persecute a Christian pastor, a Catholic priest, a Jewish rabbi.’ Any person of faith is subject to persecution if they dare disagree, if their religious faith parts way from their political commitment to gay marriage.”
Check that he doesn’t think that because he knows this law has nothing to do with the clergy.
you don’t know what you just did to these poor people
@stat: Money can do a lot of good, too. That doesn’t mean it’s no longer the root of all evil.
@torvaldi: Is that Latvian for dickhead?
Geezer: “@torvaldi: Is that Latvian for dickhead?”
With insightful comments like that, it’s no wonder you’re on talk radio.
Also, the love of money is the root of all evil. Not money itself.
I was just matching your own level of insight.
Your idea of self-righteous bloviating demonstrates that you are a thoughtless dickhead, just like most “religious” people of your stripe. If you have any ideas, share them. Otherwise, we like to keep our dicks in our pants and our pants zipped — so zip it, dickhead.
@donviti: Tell your friends that the circle jerk you hold at your place isn’t in operation here.
Religion is not inherently evil. Neither is money. Both are merely an artifice (one of many) through which evil is committed. Things that are that are assigned anthropomorphic qualities diverts and deflects the focus on the single source of evil. There is no murder without man.
There are many that would argue for institutional evil, but I would argue that institutions do not exist without its people and it’s the people that make the institution what it is.
What can we do about man’s innate evilness? Counter that with man’s innate goodness for evil cannot exist without goodness in equal measure. We just have to continue to try to be better than we are, knowing full well that that we are only human.
I’m not sure if that’s a pragmatic view, a cynical view, or just Good Friday.
@Geezer: Good. Use your aggressive feelings, boy. Let the hate flow through you.
I was being snarky in my reply to DV about the root of all evil – who I know “got it”.
That said, stat’s comment is interesting. We’re back to religious people needing validation of their religion again. (We discussed this several weeks ago.) If you do “good works” with your church, great, but that doesn’t prove goodness. Or is the claim that people who do good things with their church wouldn’t do those things without their church? It seems to come down to some religious people saying that without church membership no good things would get done – and that’s why religion is good.
I’m not sure why stat even needs to tell me this, but he/she does need to tell me. I’m not buying it, tho – nor will I validate it. Being religious does not equate into being morally or ethically superior to non religious people, but many of its followers use their religion as a trump card. Even worse, I’m supposed to not only “respect” their religion (while they’re free to disrespect atheists and agnostics, along with “other” religions) but accept their playing of their trump card to win the argument. Sorry, no can do – because religion is not a sound and reasonable argument. It’s faith, not fact. If you have faith, good for you. When you start legislating your faith we’re going to have a problem.
And Torvaldi is “above” a problem that doesn’t impact his life. That’s not courageous and edgy. It is, however, another both sides do it argument – and one that completely ignores that one side actually wrote, passed and signed a law that makes discrimination legal.
The backlash to the backlash is getting hilarious.
CNN contributor Eric Ericson says: “In the last twenty-four hours, much of the mainstream media has shown itself perfectly willing to serve as agents of Satan.”
Mwah hah ha ha!
@torvaldi: Now you want to flatter yourself. It isn’t hate, it’s a reaction to your idiotic statement that donviti — the one who wants Obama jailed and the nation to stop spying on people — was the one demonstrating common sense.
As intelligent people would note, those are the least realistic statements on the thread. Yours wins silver.
I hope they keep talking, Jason. It shows how they were lying when they claimed this wasn’t about discrimination. Almost all Republican issues can be figured out if you ask yourself, “How does this bill/idea discriminate against people?”
Indiana’s law would have effectively implemented a form of Sharia law. Considering the paranoia that exists on the right, I can’t even fathom how they could have supported such a thing. Unless, Sharia law is really acceptable to them as long as it is Christian Sharia and not the Muslim kind.
So, do we give Mike Pence a half-assed attaboy for pushing through a revised bill…… or would that be like congratulating the ass hole who burned down your house on the slightly shittier new house he built after he was astonished you got mad about the fire?