Friday Open Thread [1.30.15]—The Romney Free Edition
In a sense, our first Romney free open thread since 2007, since Mitt Romney began running for President. And by “Romney free,” I mean, we, the citizens of this country, are free from the prospect of Willard Dillard Mittens Romney III ever being our President. If you thought “Romney free” meant this open thread was free of mentions to Romney, you are sadly mistaken.
Here is Mittens on his decision to sit out 2016:
“After putting considerable thought into making another run for president, I’ve decided it is best to give other leaders in the Party the opportunity to become our next nominee.”
“I believe that one of our next generation of Republican leaders, one who may not be as well known as I am today, one who has not yet taken their message across the country, one who is just getting started, may well emerge as being better able to defeat the Democrat nominee. In fact, I expect and hope that to be the case.”
NATIONAL–PRESIDENT–REPUBLICAN PRIMARY–Public Policy Polling: Bush 17, Carson 15, Walker 11, Cruz 9, Huckabee 9, Christie 7, Paul 4 and Perry 2. This poll actually showed Romney leading with 21%, but I have excluded him since he has announced he is not running. I imagine his support was all due to name recognition anyway, and will now be disbursed among Jeb Bush, Chris Christie and Scott Walker.
Mark Halperin says Mitt Romney has held “a jaundiced view” of Jeb Bush “dating all the way back to his handling of the Terri Schiavo case, and has come to see Bush as a non-entity in the 2016 nomination contest. Romney is said to see Bush as a small-time businessman whose financial transactions would nonetheless be fodder for the Democrats and as terminally weighed down with voters across the board based on his family name. Romney also doesn’t think much of Bush’s political skills (a view mocked by Bush’s camp, who say Romney is nowhere near Bush’s league as a campaigner). Romney also considers Bush the national Republican figure who was the least helpful to him during his last run for the White House, a position that has darkened Ann Romney’s view of Bush as well.”
Indeed, from Romney’s statement above, talking about a new generation of Republican leaders, he is not talking about Jeb Bush.
NATIONAL–PRESIDENT–REPUBLICAN PRIMARY–Fox News poll: Paul 11, Huckabee 11, Bush 10, Carson 9, Walker 8 and Rubio 5. Romney also led this poll with 21%.
That Romney publicly doesn’t like Jeb Bush will help Bush among GOP primary voters.
Well gee, If I were a uneducated, lower middle class guy with an unskilled labor job, I would certainly support Romney LOL
This report from Halperin that Romney’s animus towards Jebby dates back to Terri Schiavo in 2005 actually helps Bush with the theocratic terrorists that populate the Republican base.
Of course, Mitt could always change his mind about running. He is Mitt Romney, after all.
With this news and the video of Christie falling off a chair, this is turning out to be a banner day for Jeb.
Technically, Jeb is George’s brother, so it’s impossible for him to represent a “new generation” of leadership.
Right. Hence the rub from Romney.
Beau’s political future gets a mention on Daily Kos:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/01/30/1360986/-The-Daily-Kos-Great-Mentioner-asks-Will-the-Biden-dynasty-continue-in-Delaware#comments
‘Attorney General Mark Denn’.
Well, this is a REALLY good guy walking away right now. Casting pearls before swine is never a good idea, and he’s sure seen the outcome of that. America is still in love with tragic heroes, and blighted pasts, to the point of celebrating, defending, and promoting them to a status we used to decry and hope our kids wouldn’t emulate. Now we have seemed to normalize bad behavior–so a good guy comes along and instead of being refreshed, we are invigorated to beat him up, sully his name, attack his family, and mock or fabricate every utterance or action to arouse suspicion of all things nefarious and sinister. Well, guess we’ll just see if he would come back, or what we’re left with.
Joanne, I had nothing against Romney personally, and I believe I have never attacked him personally. From all accounts, he is a nice man, a great husband, father and grandfather.
I have HUGE problems with him politically and ideologically. And I have been merciless about those differences and I will not apologize for it, nor do I regret it.
@Joanne: We’re dealing with a high-ranking Mormon. We don’t have to make up anything. They’re wonderful people. They’re also on a par with radical Islam in their insistence on what a woman’s role should be.
Are you suggesting that Barack Obama is someone our kids should not emulate?
Bush will be the winner.
People (Independents) will see Bush. They will not want a dynasty.
they will hold their nose and vote for whatever Dem beats Hillary (who hasn’t announced yet)
I look for a guy from the middle of the country. White, “pragmatic” and bank friendly to win (Biden)
The only Democrat who can defeat Hillary is not a man. Her name is Elizabeth Warren. She is not running.
Therefore, the Democratic nominee will be Hillary Clinton. The only way she is not is if she does not run or dies between now and August 2016.
Clinton v. Bush…no way
The republicans are more sheepish than the Dems. Lord knows that.
Clinton doesn’t make it out of the primaries.
Who is running against her? Jim Webb? LOL. He is more right wing than her. Martin O’Malley? He’s not beating Hillary. You needed an amazing candidate to just barely, just barely beat her last time. There is no Obama on the Dem bench in 2016. Accept the reality.
If she wants it, it is hers.
“on par with radical Islam of what a woman’s role should be….”, sure Geezer,erroneous slams like that are precisely the dog whistle you’d rather espouse. And “high-ranking Mormon”? Again, the unpaid, volunteer, service he’s given when asked is at the same level of service any other active member of the Mormon church could be asked. High ranking? It’s a lay ministry of participation, not a pyramid to “rank” or “title”. All are equal, and the assignments come and go.
But yes, DelDem, I could get on board with Elizabeth Warren. I think the nation is Clinton and Bush tired. And yes, DelDem, President Obama has been an absolute positive role model of truly treating people with dignity, tempered, civil disagreement, and deference/care for his family as presented in what we see. But you can’t disagree the process for him to get there, was so incredible in the face of the nastiness of his own party and then an opponent–the stars aligned as he sailed through to victory, because the vitriol was extended elsewhere.
Could we really get that combination again?
The 2016 GOP nominee is not mentioned in any of your polls. Far too early to get meaningful poll data on the 2016 GOP nominee
My GOP 2016 hopeful Presidential nominees in order of my preference, not probability of them getting the nomination.
1. Cârly Fiorina
2. Ben Carson
3. Ted Cruz
4&5th tie, Marco Rubio, Rand Paul
6. Chris Christie
Rustydills I like all your choices except Chris Christie, he just can’t deliver the crushing 20 point loss for the Republicans America needs right now.
@Joanne: What you don’t know or are not acknowledging about Mormonism would fill a book. Several, in fact. None so blind, etc.
@rusty: What on earth makes you think Carly Fiorina, who drove H-P over a cliff last time she was trusted to run something, and Ben Carson, who has no skills once he leaves the surgical theater, could run the government? People like you treat politics as if it were American Idol.
Bambooz… FTW!
“on par with radical Islam of what a woman’s role should be….”
Correct. That is not true, although it is a heavily patriarchal structure, so there are many similarities. Now something more on par with Islam and women, is the Hasidic community of Kiryas Joel in upstate New York where the women don’t drive (the men also don’t work, because they are busy studying the Talmud).
“All are equal, and the assignments come and go.”
Also, not true. After all it is a heavily patriarchal structure and men dominate all aspects of Mormon life.
That all could change if or when the LDS President has another revelation as he did when African Americans were allowed to attain Mormon priesthood in 1978. Revelation is the method by which the LDS Church evolves. I have no information as to whether magic mushrooms or other substances are involved in said revelations.
And people like Geezer treat politics like it were Golgotha.
Howzat last messiah workin’ out?
A little more Meh than Siah?
Never had a messiah. See you’ve got the first syllable of assumptions down pat.
Geezer,
http://www.c-span.org/video/?c4525039/carly-fiorina-iowa-freedom-summit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpiryahOspY
P.S. How did Obama’s qualifications to run a government before he ran for President stack up to these two individuals?
uhm, Obama won elections?
Geezer, more reasons why I want Carly Fiorina as GOP Nominee
http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Carly_Fiorina.aspx
“Fiorna Out, HP Stock Soars”
http://money.cnn.com/2005/02/09/technology/hp_fiorina/
She was fired by the Board after her big gamble didn’t pay off. And her failed Senate campaign still owes $500K to vendors.
So your criterion for picking a president is her/his ability to insult his/her opponent. I have to admit, that’s an even shallower standard than I was expecting.
As for Obama’s experience, are you going to argue that a lack of experience has led to better-than-expected performance? I would argue that what successes he’s had have come despite, not because of, his lack of experience.
But what’s the point of telling you that? It’s obviously over your head. You think this is all a pep rally, and whichever side hollers loudest will win. We’ve got spirit, yes we do, we’ve got spirit, how ’bout you?
To clarify on Obama vs. Carson or FIorina, not only had Obama won elective office twice, he clearly had more executive experience than Carson, who has never run anything, and he never fucked up anything as badly as Carly has. So he’s better than they are almost by default.
@Dave: Perhaps you see driving as a more fundamental right than I do. I have many Mormon friends — I think their religion is f’ed up but hey, it’s their lives. Yet it pains me when I see a brilliant young girl forgo higher education and a career not because that’s what she wants but because it’s all she’s allowed to do if she wants to stay in her family and her faith. At least the Amish give the kids a year among the English to see if they prefer it there.
@Geezer. Oh don’t get me wrong, I think Mormonism is almost a cult (I also feel that way about Hasidic Judaism). Actually, many of the worlds religions have their extreme sects which exhibit cult-like behavior. Interestingly, they all seem to have similarities regarding the role of women. And yeah, it pains me as well, but at least Mormon women can drive in their faith, the Hasidic women can’t even do that. It’s not so much that it’s fundamental right. It’s just that it’s reflective of the right to choose. It’s hard to escape a life you dread if you have no money and don’t drive.
I know Mormons who send their daughters to college and support them having a career. I’m sure there are sections that don’t – just like Christian fundamentalists (Hello, Quiverfull).
I’d have a hard time finding a religion that doesn’t employ patriarchy to keep women down in some way. Focusing on extremists in all religions seems, to me, like giving a pass to everyday religious practices – which, while they don’t come under the label extremist, are pretty much saying the same thing a lot of the time.
My friends aren’t extremists. I never said my friends didn’t send their daughters to college. By higher education I meant continuing after college. And we’ll see how much of a career your friend’s daughter has once she’s married off. My money is on she stops working after the first pregnancy — and there will be a lot more than one.
The pressure in Mormonism for women to marry and focus on the child-rearing is intense. To reiterate, I’m talking about standard-issue Mormons here, and I agree with your conclusion about all religion. The patriarchy is a feature, not a bug.
“It’s hard to escape a life you dread if you have no money and don’t drive.”
First off, I’m not talking about them dreading anything. They are raised and acculturated to perpetuate the faith. Second, most Hasidic Jews in this country live in New York. A high percentage of New York families don’t have a car in the first place, because you don’t need one there. What you’re describing is a condition specific to the US, except for a few major cities. Unless a country follows our wasteful pattern of a quarter-acre for every home, driving is a luxury, not a necessity.
Geezer, you are mixing up your comments to me. On one hand you say how can I expect Carly Fiorina to run a government, I give you two examples of why I can expect her to be more than competent running government, her speech, and the encylopedia about her career, I pose the question to you that says she has far more experience running things than Barack Obama did before he was elected. So, then you switch gears, away from your first statement of how competent one is to govern, to how competent one is to get elected. I specifically in my list of candidates that I prefer state that is my preference list, not a list of who will probably get the nomination. Your response is that Obama was qualified because he had already won elections. Winning elections is politics, not governing. I think the public and the political talk shows often times mix up the two activities, yes they are related because you can’t govern unless you are elected, getting elected is politics, governing so that you or your party can get re-elected, is absolutely the worst type of governing, once elected, no matter which party you represent, you should govern to help 100% of the people. So, I say, you are mixing up one’s ability to get elected, (Which Barack Obama has proven he has), with one’s ability to govern, (Which Barack Obama has proven he does not have, see Joe Bidens recent remarks in my other comment on a different thread). Carly Fiorina has demonstrated the ability to run things to help people, look at the encyclopedia link I sent. But, I don’t know if she has the ability to get elected. I or no one else knows that or not. But, she would be the best President, so I am hoping, that somehow, someway, she finds a way to get the GOP nomination, and then finds a way to win the general election.
Carly Fiorina’s CV is a long list of corporate jobs in which she reported to others, then a stint as CEO that ends with a disaster. The only thing she ran was H-P, and she ran it into the ground. (She is a marketing person, not an operations person, so this shouldn’t have surprised anyone). So she has failed at running a large organization. She then demonstrated that despite ample resources, she could not pull off a winning campaign, so strike two.
You seem to thing that a winning presidential campaign demonstrates no ability, and maybe it doesn’t, though it’s more like the job of president than any other job is. And it’s a helluva lot better qualification than failing to win elections.
The US electorate currently has a preference for people with short track records, as shown by the elections of GWB and Obama, as well as by the right’s love affair with Sarah Palin. I don’t see why, if we’re going to select people with short track records, we should pick those with a short track record of failure.
Your adolescent fascination with the GOP flavor of the month marks you as exactly what the GOP is looking for — easily duped rubes.
Also, your claims about Barack Obama are belied by the reality of his accomplishments. The GOP’s fantasy profile of Obama is just that, despite your belief in it.
Geezer–you are all over the place. First, you allude to denying higher education to bright women–then you clean that up with pursuing greater than a college education for said Mormon woman in lieu of marriage and child-rearing. HELLO! Don’t you think women as a whole might struggle with being married, having children, THEN question “oh should I go back….or I wish I went back…..” It’s a struggle regardless, when there are children involved. Blaming it on a religion may seem finite to you–but child rearing is serious business not to be so blithely turned over to daycare, because of choosing children first–and then the epiphany of “I could have been a ……”. Sorry, you don’t value educated mothers who choose to stay at home, have a wistful day now and then about aspirations….and then get back to work doing the hardest job–staying home. That’s universal in our country. And guess what? You should check out the men now, who stay at home.
As far as candidates go, unless and until the GOP proves it can govern (which it has not thus far throughout most of my life), I’m not about accept any GOP candidate for President, as long as they hold both the House and the Senate. Their single greatest achievement in the House was to be able to claim the world record for voting for the exact same thing (repealing ACA) over 50 times. And if that were not bad enough, they are mostly proud of that record as if it were an accomplishment. Unfortunately no one in the DNC thought to apply to Guinness to make it official so that the GOP can reap their just rewards. Anyway that’s what the GOP House did with their time. Can’t wait for the next 4-6 years!
Bottom line, if Hilary runs, I’m voting for her. If she doesn’t, I’m voting for me.
hild rearing is serious business not to be so blithely turned over to daycare
There is nothing “blithe” about turning a child over to daycare. But I do wish you wouldn’t speak so blithely about a “choice” to put a child in daycare. In nearly every instance it is pure economic necessity, not choice. Even married women can no longer afford to be stay-at-home moms on the dwindling wages paid to their husbands by the Mitt Romneys of the world.
I was raised in the last years when it seemed a lot of women were stay at home moms. Now both spouses work and they each make half as much. I sometimes wonder which way is better.
you are mixing up one’s ability to get elected, (Which Barack Obama has proven he has), with one’s ability to govern, (Which Barack Obama has proven he does not have
Only in the rignt-wing fever swamps does Obama not have the proven ability to govern. Obama drove the car out of the f**king ditch you jackasses ran it into, all while you were tugging on the wheel trying to steer it back into the ditch.
puck–exactly the point. The decision FOR the childcare is based on economic need, or any other decision that a person feels trumps staying at home. It doesn’t negate the feeling of all the “what ifs”, “if only”, “maybe we can”…..99% of mothers have at some moment, struggled with the decison. The point being, RELIGION doesn’t dictate those decisions, nor does it DERAIL a woman’s option to a career or greater higher ed. If it did, you and Geezer would then probably say……..”oh those Mormon women who have to stay home and raise their families…..why can’t they go out and work like most 2 income families today, and they are probably using up all our welfare programs….
Sure–many stay home—and they have sacrified for it too. Just like any other family facing these decisions.
You have no idea what the specifics of the cases are, by design, because I won’t give enough details for anyone to identify people. But you’re not going to argue me out of what I have seen first-hand just because you know other people who have lived other lives.
They don’t describe every Mormon’s life? No kidding, Sherlock. Thanks. You think I’m unfairly generalizing? Sorry, I’m not going to run through my every dealing with every Mormon I know just to defend my conclusions. You’re not convinced by what I say? No concern of mine.
I stand by what I said in regard to Romney and Mormonism: If you dream people in LDS get assignments based on merit, don’t let me wake you up.
Don’t try to drag me into your mommy wars. They have nothing to do with this.
religion…