Thursday Open Thread [6.6.13]

Filed in Open Thread by on June 6, 2013

The news of the day seems to be the blockbuster story reported by Glenn Greenwald in The Guardian of a court order that authorized the NSA to collect a good deal of phone call information from Verizon customers:

The order directs Verizon to “continue production on an ongoing daily basis thereafter for the duration of this order”. It specifies that the records to be produced include “session identifying information”, such as “originating and terminating number”, the duration of each call, telephone calling card numbers, trunk identifiers, International Mobile Subscriber Identity (IMSI) number, and “comprehensive communication routing information”.

The information is classed as “metadata”, or transactional information, rather than communications, and so does not require individual warrants to access. The document also specifies that such “metadata” is not limited to the aforementioned items. A 2005 court ruling judged that cell site location data – the nearest cell tower a phone was connected to – was also transactional data, and so could potentially fall under the scope of the order.

While the order itself does not include either the contents of messages or the personal information of the subscriber of any particular cell number, its collection would allow the NSA to build easily a comprehensive picture of who any individual contacted, how and when, and possibly from where, retrospectively.

Over the course of the morning, we’ve been treated to a number of Senators who have been asked about this largely noting that this surveillance is NORMAL. TPM has both Dianne Feinstein and Saxby Chambliss weighing in — here’s Senator Feinstein:

“It is lawful. It has been briefed to Congress,” Senate Intelligence Chair Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) told reporters at an impromptu news conference in the Capitol. “This is just meta data. There is no content involved. In other words, no content of a communication. … The records can only be accessed under heightened standards.” […]

“It’s called protecting America.”

Chambliss:

Senate Intelligence Vice Chair Saxby Chambliss (R-GA) backed up Feinstein, saying, “This is nothing particularly new. This has been going on for seven years under the auspices of the FISA authority, and every member of the United States Senate has been advised of this.”

Then there’s Harry Reid:

“Right now I think everyone should just calm down and understand that this isn’t anything that’s brand new — it’s been going on for 7 years,” Reid said.

Reid said the program authorizing collection of meta-data on phone records has helped stop terrorist acts. He said senators will continue to review the law in that regard and work to make it better.

The White House has given a defense of the program, without committing to reasons. (And seriously, The Guardian has a really good package of articles on this.)

Then we have the author of the Patriot Act — Rep. Jim Sensenbrenner (R-Koch Bros.)– who makes this comment (unironically, I presume):

The Bureau’s broad application for phone records was made under the so-called business records provision of the Act. I do not believe the broadly drafted FISA order is consistent with the requirements of the Patriot Act. Seizing phone records of millions of innocent people is excessive and un-American.”

Translation — Yes I know I left all of those loaded guns on the table, but I told those kids to play with the waterguns on the *other* table! Sheesh.

Sure, there are people out there trying to attack us. But I STILL don’t believe handing the government a ton of detail about my phone usage can possibly be a cost effective or especially efficient way to stop these plots. I DO think that handing over this data wholesale lets the NSA (and other law enforcement) off of the hook from specifically targeting the so-called Bad Guys. I don’t care that this has been going on for 7 years, the Patriot Act continues to enable the government to have way more access to our lives in a way we have no recourse to either stop or inspect. (There’s a Terry Gilliam movie in there somewhere.) The thing that makes me mad about the Patriot Act is that it presumes that we are ALL terrorists until the Government can clear us. And if they are routinely collecting up this kind of data, it seems fair to assume that you never get cleared. That eagle on my passport is supposed to mean something and I’m pretty sure it doesn’t mean Terrorist Until Proven Otherwise.

And how heartbreaking is it that the majority of our legislators seem to think that this is AOK? Except maybe Bernie Sanders. And perhaps this numbnuts GOP rep who seems to be interested in this to find out if the NSA is spying on Congress.

So anyway, I’m sorry this thread was posted late. What interests you today?

About the Author ()

"You don't make progress by standing on the sidelines, whimpering and complaining. You make progress by implementing ideas." -Shirley Chisholm

Comments (12)

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  1. puck says:

    The good news is there is one elected official who is seriously opposed to this kind of surveillance. The bad news is it’s Rand Paul.

  2. Steve Newton says:

    Anyone remember the famous line from Vietnam: “We had to destroy the village in order to save it”?

    Apparently the same thing applies to our freedoms.

  3. Rusty Dils says:

    Vladimir Putin is sitting back laughing his ass off, (“those Dumbass Amercians still think Obama is trying to help them”)

  4. cassandra m says:

    The only thing Putin is laughing at is the fact that RD posts here thinking that he has something credible to say.

    Anyway, NPR this afternoon had a very interesting piece on how all of this data gets used. (As of this writing, only the audio report is available. The transcript should be up in a couple of hours.)

    I’m not changing my mind on this, but knowing abit more about what they do with this data is good. And reinforces my idea that in a country full of smart people, that we can come up with a better way to do this rather than treat us all as freakin’ suspects.

  5. Rusty Dils says:

    Looks like now the government has been spying on everyone via the internet.

    Bye Bye Barry

  6. Rusty Dils says:

    Where is Warren Buffet and George Clooney during all this? Obama is their main man.
    Starting to look like Warren and George are not so smart after all.

    The folks at the Delaware liberal are like the captain of the ship, they have every intention of going down with the ship. Their attitude is that none of this is bad for the country, and absolutely none of it could be Barry’s doing

  7. SussexWatcher says:

    If anyone needed it, here’s more details on Richard Korn’s assholery and scumbagginess, from Celia: http://www.delawaregrapevine.com/6-13korn.asp

  8. geezer says:

    “Looks like now the government has been spying on everyone via the internet.”

    Just as it has for years now, including under George W. Bush. Your blind hatred is tiresome.

  9. geezer says:

    Celia and Richard Korn are a good pair. They deserve each other.

  10. Dorian Gray says:

    That fucking moron Rusty has a point. He is having serious difficulty articulating it, but that’s no suprise. Every god damn “liberal” who reads and posts here should be disgusted by this and should do some serious soul searching… Obama is not our progressive saviour. He’s not a liberal… I, for one, am outraged by this. Please stop conflating the Democratic party with liberalism.

  11. Geezer says:

    Agreed, Dorian. But Rusty’s blind hatred is still tiresome. I guarantee he had no problem with it during the Bush years.

  12. Geezer says:

    “Apparently the same thing applies to our freedoms.”

    Just as it always has. If you have to say that rights are inalienable, then obviously they aren’t, or you wouldn’t even have to say it. Those rights are not granted by God; they are granted by the government, or whatever other authority is in charge of the society in which people live.

    Of course it’s an outrage. But it’s the natural result of pretending that Islamic terrorism is an existential threat rather than a nuisance — a deadly nuisance, obviously, but many common household objects kill more people every year than Islamic terrorists do and we don’t freak out about them. Hell, we accept 35,000 road deaths a year, a number that would be a fraction of that if we had decent public transit, simply because we want the freedom to go where we want when we want. What should the cost in lives be for fucking up the way of life of people around the world in our quest for raw materials?