Where Are The Big, Brave Gun Owners?

Filed in National by on December 17, 2012

Funny how they suddenly have nothing to say.  Usually you can’t shut them up.  And if they really believed they had nothing to do with this then they should be making their case.  But they can’t, because they aren’t part of any solution.

Pro-gun rights politicians have gone to ground. NBC’s Meet the Press said it had invited the 31 senators, Republican and Democrat, who openly oppose stricter gun control laws to appear on the programme with Bloomberg and Feinstein. None accepted.

The National Rifle Association, the largest and most influential of the gun rights lobby groups, has been similarly silent since the massacre.

Oh, I’m sure they’ll be back, but, seriously, what can they say now?  Dead kids are the price of freedom?  They got nothing… except our short memories.

There’s been a lot of talk about mental illness, video games, etc.  But that’s not the problem.  The problem is how easily we forget.  How easily we accept these shootings.  How numb we’ve become to these deaths.  This isn’t about video games or movies.  This is about us.  And the NRA is counting on us.  After all, we haven’t let them down in the past.  I’d like to change that.

Yeah, I’m not planning on letting this go.

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A stay-at-home mom with an obsession for National politics.

Comments (41)

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  1. Delaware Dem says:

    Neither am I. We are going to ban semi automtic assault weapons and large magazines.

    I don’t care if they speak up or not. Indeed, I take their silence as an admission of guilt. Perhaps finally they realize that we are right, and they are wrong. You can hunt all you want without needing assault weapons. You can be a gun love and be proud of the insane gun culture without amassing an arsenal that could defend a small nation.

    And even if they were outspoken today, I don’t give a shit. Assault weapons are weapons of mass destruction and a clear and present danger to the national security of the United States. They must and will be banned. And if they try to stop us, they are enemies of the United States.

  2. pandora says:

    Non-college educated, white men are the main opponents to gun control.

    First, the toplines. The Post poll finds that Americans favor stricter gun laws by 54-43. The Post polling team tells me that whites oppose them by 48-50. But this is driven by opposition among white men (42-56) and non-college whites (44-53). By contrast, college educated whites favor stricter laws (54-43), as do white women (53-44).

    The same pattern is evident on semi-automatic weapons. Overall, Americans favor a nationwide ban on them by 52-44. Whites narrowly oppose this (48-49), but here again this is driven by opposition among white men (40-58) and non-college whites (42-54). By contrast, white women favor a ban by 56-40 and college educated whites favor one by 58-40.

    This makes a scary sort of sense.

  3. puck says:

    None of their usual arguments work in this case, and they know it.

    I’m sure any new controls will be supported by police, educators, and (not to stereotype) about 100% of mothers.

  4. pandora says:

    That’s really not a total stereotype. There are many examples of mothers rising up against violence. Ireland springs to mind.

  5. Turk184 says:

    The fact that we allow civilians to own military grade assault weapons is repugnant. There is absolutely no need for it. These are purpose built weapons – their purpose is to kill and main – people. I have yet to find a hunter, if he or she is being honest, that will defend the need to have these. They don’t use them. I doubt that any law enforcement officer will support these being held by the general population…they bear the brunt of their use. Let’s wake up, and ban these like Australia did in the 90’s. Buy them back, perhaps with a “collector’s exclusion” for certified decommissioned weapons. The fact that Connecticut has some of the most strident gun laws in the land and this tragedy still happened needs to give us the strength to revisit this nonsense.

  6. CFM says:

    Okay, I’m one of them. Have at me. Grew up in lower Del. Started hunting and shooting with my dad. It was fun, my connection to him. He taught me to respect firearms. This whole thing is tearing me up. I’ve seen where the shooting community has gone from what was a healthy recreational pursuit to something resembling pornography only with these “Black Rifles” as objects of desire. I hope I’m not speaking for myself when I say that there are some or us who are seriously disillusioned by it all.
    I personally have never needed a firearm that required more than three rounds. And if you can’t defend yourself with a revolver that holds six maybe you need to reconsider your situation.

  7. Dave says:

    The NRA has shut down it’s Facebook page and their website has not been updated with any information in the recent days. With no comment from the NRA, I am of the opinion that they have gone into bunker mode, laying low and letting surrogates mouth the party line, at least until this blows over.

    While I am not in favor of restricting hunter’s rights, military style weapons are not used in hunting. It’s past time. The President, has done his job as Consoler In Chief. Now it is time for him to act as Commander In Chief and lead the nation in addressing the motive and means that leads to these senseless acts.

    If not now when?

  8. pandora says:

    Then you aren’t one of them, CFM.

  9. puck says:

    “The fact that we allow civilians to own military grade assault weapons…”

    We already don’t allow civilians to own military-grade assault weapons. What you see are knockoffs that are semi-auto, not full auto. Supposedly there is a DIY way to convert them to full auto, but then again I’ve never heard of a mass killing done on full auto.

    The problem is the capacity of the clips they accept, which is where to focus the legislation. The styling of the weapons also probably draws in the unstable fetishists, although I’m not sure how you can legislate against that.

  10. mediawatch says:

    Let’s do what we can right now, right here in Delaware.
    Ban the sale of large magazines and semi-automatic assault weapons, and anything else capable of causing large-scale mayhem.
    Our attorney general ought to be able to draft that bill before the General Assembly gets back to work in January.
    With strong Democratic majorities in both House and Senate, the legislation should pass. And it will be quite interesting to see whether the Republicans vote with their brains or toe the NRA line preached by their party chairman.

  11. Jason330 says:

    I agree. Put them to a test. Close the gun show loop hole too.

  12. Turk184 says:

    @puck – Look, I understand the difference between semi-auto and auto. These “knockoffs” as you call them; fire a military .223 round as fast as you can pull the trigger. Let’s not marginalize these things with blather and smoke screen comments. Why do hunters not use them? I guess some might try it as a varmint rifle, (personally , I’d like a scope and longer barrel), but the .223 round starts to spin and causes maximum trauma when it hits. It’ll really blast those bunnies…I guess you could make rabbit stew, but a nice, braised saddle of rabbit is out of the question.

  13. Liberal Elite says:

    We don’t need to ban guns. Banning the sale of bullets would be enough. People can make their own bullets, just like when the 2nd amendment was adopted.

  14. puck says:

    @Turk184 – okay, but how would you define an assault rifle? Because it looks like one? I’m thinking the key differential is the size of the clip, regardless of what kind of gun they go into. There are also pistols that take high-capacity clips too.

    Hell, if we can make it illegal to sell DVD players that play movies from overseas, or to make unencrypted HDMI connectors, then we can make it illegal to sell jumbo clips that fit into civilian guns.

  15. mediawatch says:

    Dammit, I’ve got a pet rabbit. I love her dearly, and I’d rather you not talk about blasting bunnies in this thread.

  16. Turk184 says:

    @puck – Yes, I absolutely agree that the large clips should also be part of any plan to address this issue. (I was kinda assuming that, but did not make it clear – my bad.)I also totally agree with Jason330 on the ludicrous gun show loop hole and hope, along with mediawatch, that Beau mans up and tackles this forthright.

  17. Turk184 says:

    @mediawatch – So sorry. I got a little carried away trying to make a point about the uselessness of these guns in hunting. No offence meant to your bunny.

  18. Jason330 says:

    “Sen. Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ) announced on Monday that he would be reintroducing legislation in the new Congress that would ban high-capacity magazines, those that can carry more than 10 rounds of ammunition.”


  19. Brian says:

    I’m friends with some pro-gunnies on FB. Some are already reposting shoddily thrown together graphics about how guns aren’t the problem. Some of them haven’t said a peep. Some have said arming teachers would have stopped this because some district in TX has concealed carry and there haven’t been any mass shootings there. The most interesting graphic I’ve seen thus far states how Timothy McVeigh didn’t use a gun to wreak the havoc he did and we haven’t outlawed box trucks, fertilizer or racing fuel therefore guns are not the problems because murderers will murder with or without guns.

    I’m not even sure where to begin.

  20. blu gal in de says:

    In addition to the need to amend gun laws is the topic of mental health.

    My sister just sent this blog post to me. Go and read it – the blog addresses the need for better/more mental health facilities and the struggles she is having with a violent 13 year old son. Sad and scary.


  21. mediawatch says:

    Won’t be long before your pro-gunny friends go into high gear with their straw men and smokescreens.
    Yes, we have to begin with guns.
    And, no, we cannot stop there. We must also address mental health issues.
    When we address mental health issues, we might be able to provide treatment for those whose warped logic suggests that automatic weapons deserve the same protections as fertilizer trucks.
    Even the best of societies will not eliminate all killing, but the first step to take is to eliminate the tools that are used most frequently and have the most impact.

  22. JConnor says:

    The lady that wrote that has blogged some totally off the wall writings and upon any reasonable examination is not particulaly credible. In my 30 years of association with Mental Health issues it is certainly true that starting with the Reagan years the system has been gutted. However the incidence of mental illness in Europe and Japan is similar and even taking into account poor treatment here, it is clear that the problem is guns, plain and simple.

  23. puck says:

    At least let the bill be introduced by a Kennedy.

  24. AQC says:

    I saw a letter sent to all DE legislatures suggesting that teachers and school staff should receive para military type training, keeps guns in the schools and serve as a militia. So much crazy! People actually want such a things for our schools but they don’t want to pay for school lunches.

  25. cassandra m says:

    So now I’m confused. I thought that teachers were union thugs to be feared and quashed at all costs. Now we’re thinking of *arming* these union thugs?

    AND for the snark impaired — 😉

  26. cassandra m says:

    Here’s another poll — this one conducted by Frank Luntz for the Mayors Against Illegal Guns:

    Among the survey’s key findings:

    87 percent of NRA members agree that support for Second Amendment rights goes hand-in-hand with keeping guns out of the hands of criminals.

    There is very strong support for criminal background checks among NRA members and gun owners:
    74 percent of NRA members and 87 percent of non-NRA gun owners support requiring criminal background checks of anyone purchasing a gun.
    79 percent of NRA members and 80 percent of non-NRA gun owners support requiring gun retailers to perform background checks on all employees – a measure recently endorsed by the National Shooting Sports Foundation, the trade association for the firearms industry.

    There’s more there, but it is interesting that this poll specifically polled gun owners and NRA members and specifically polled some of the gun law weakening measures that the NRA is lobbying for.

  27. Joe Cass says:

    Right to work and destruction of collective bargaining ruins local unions except for two. One has unlimited firepower, warrantless wiretaps and a few armored vehicles. What is the latest head count of former cops in our legislature and why aren’t they so SunShiney about investigations and actions. With all due respect, gun control is not what you want. You want a civilised society. How’s it feel to want?

  28. AQC says:

    No wonder the NRA is so quiet. It’s a marketing boon for them! I was just reading how gun stores are selling out.

  29. Aoine says:

    Pandora mention Mothers rising up against gun violence – specifically in Ireland, especially during the “Troubles”

    Guns, like the more recent smoking issue, were banned in a rather unique way, nationwide, and in one fell swoop – Actually its amusing if you know how the Irish bureacracy works or doesnt work.

    There is not a more bureaucratic people than the Irish:

    1972 Temporary Custody Order and Pistols in Irish firearms law:

    One of the most controversial events in the history of the Firearms Acts occurred in 1972. The “Troubles” in Northern Ireland (1970–1998) were becoming a security concern for the Irish Government at the time, and in 1972 a Temporary Custody Order (S.I. No. 187/1972 – Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order, 1972)[31] was issued for all privately-held pistols and all rifles over .22 calibre to be surrendered to local Garda (police) stations by 5 August 1972, for a period of one month. This order was complied with, but when firearms owners returned to reclaim their firearms, they were informed that their licences had expired while their firearms were in custody (Irish firearms licences until 2008 were issued for a period of one year, and all licences were usually dealt with at the same time, usually at the start of August, though the date has changed over the years).

    Since the firearms were no longer licenced, they could not be returned until a new licence was issued; upon seeking a renewal of their licences, applicants were informed that a new Garda policy was in place that would refuse licence applications for all pistols and all firearms over .22 in calibre. As such, the firearms in Garda custody remained in Garda custody.

    ROTFLMAO!! oh, if you don’t know the Garda (or Gardi)are the Irish police – and they are also an unarmed force. But I wouldn’t mess with them, at all!!

  30. Liberal Elite says:

    The NRA really is the enemy of America. The more one reads, the angrier one gets. It’s a despicable organization.

  31. Pencadermom says:

    Some of my pro gun facebook friends are comparing guns to cars.
    Some others haven’t made a peep.
    One person said they will always be armed with multiple guns, for self-defense, and if anyone broke into their house, they would leave in a body bag. (and didn’t care at all when I mentioned that many home invasions are done by very young teenagers. Nope they would still be leaving in a body bag)
    – that’s not to say I am against all gun ownership. I have family members who hunt others who collect, and some who want a gun to make them feel safe. There are responsible gun owners. And then there are a lot of crazies

  32. pandora says:

    In all probability (and the statistics show this) your friend would most likely be wetting his pants while his own gun was pointed at him. Or panic and shoot their spouse and/or child.

    You know, if only Adam Lanza’a mother had guns in her house… Oh, wait…

  33. Joe Cass says:

    Aoine, then there is history of the “Hunt Clubs”, the crown loyalists that were importing guns at less than retail while creating regulations against any Irish from obtaining a firearm. I hate to part ways with DL contributors over this but I have studied human struggles through the centuries in order to steer my interests clear of obstacles. At least I know I’ll never be an obstacle here.
    Wishing everyone at DL and all the commenters the best of the holidays and the complete experience of your citizenship.

  34. bamboozer says:

    Right now the NRA is lying low until it blows over and at least some people forget. But they’ll be back with a full court press of gun lunacy as will their legions of gun worshippers. I expect gun sales to sky rocket as terrified gunners chant their mantra “Obama’s comin’ fer yer guns!!!!”. There will be bills presented banning assault rifles and large capacity clips, none will pass as the NRA calls in all their chips. And let’s take this time to remember the only pro gun politician to show up on Meet The Press, the idiotic Louis Gohmert from Texas, was that he wished the schools principle had an assault weapon to strike back. Right, I can see it now…

  35. cassandra m says:

    With all due respect, gun control is not what you want. You want a civilised society.

    Speaking for myself, I want them both and really don’t see how they are mutually exclusive. Plenty of countries have some measure of both — certainly more than we have. The issue here might be in defining what is meant by “gun control”. I don’t think that anyone here has proposed eliminating all guns. But banning assault weapons, high-capacity magazines, requiring a more detailed accountability scheme are all things that could start to reduce the overall capacity for mayhem that one person can inflict. A civilized society would recognize that the social contract is broken when the safety of you and yours is never as important as the “right” to semiautomatic weaponry.

    The people who lost their children, and the children themselves had the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I need a good explanation as to why the freedom to own high capacity magazines trumps the victims of these massacre’s rights. Seriously. I ask this same question over and over and over and to date no one has ever even addressed it, much less acknowledged it. And starting with fear or tyranny means you haven’t properly understood the question. This isn’t directed just at Joe, BTW. Who certainly is not an obstacle here.

  36. John Young says:

    Civilized societies alone are not enough of a deterrent. Mental health issues + guns = bad things: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Norway_attacks

  37. cassandra_m says:

    True, and we’ve been talking about that here.

    We certainly do not know if Lanza was mentally ill yet (if ever), and even then you may not know about issues until the first break. Mental illness isn’t the reason why we are such a violent country.

  38. Brian says:

    Just noticed a new graphic on my FB feed regarding the 1997 Pearl River, MS school shooting. The kid was stopped by an assistant principal who retrieved his .45 from his truck. I can’t honestly believe the legit solution to stopping gun violence is adding more guns to the mix.

    This is going to be a complex solution that includes gun regulation, mental healthcare improvements, and a host of other things I’m sure. I came across a quote from John Oliver (The Daily Show):

    “One failed attempt at a shoe bomb, and now we all take off our shoes at the airport. Thirty-one (mass) shootings since Columbine, and no change in our regulation of guns”

    Things are going to have to change. Laws will have to change. It needs to begin now. Before this happens again.

  39. Liberal Elite says:

    @bamboozer “Right now the NRA is lying low until it blows over and at least some people forget.”


    They are like cockroaches, and a mass killing incident is like a flashlight.

    The “need a gun to feel safe” cowards will be back soon enough…

  40. Truth Teller says:

    All the Teabaggers down here in Sussex are not silent you can here these fools every morning on the Bill Culley show who needless to say agrees with every idiot comment they make

  41. Truth Teller says:

    The Constitution states that all citizens have the right to bear arms it doesn’t mention guns it says arms am I to assume that a Stinger Missile would qualify under this definition? I am also not sure that they weren’t talking about short sleeve shirts for casual Fridays.