Tuesday Open Thread [12.11.12]

Filed in Open Thread by on December 11, 2012

Jonathan Chait:

“In the immediate wake of the election, Republicans felt so stunned — in no small part because they had deluded themselves into expecting victory — that it seemed momentarily possible that the party’s long march to the right may halt or even reverse. But the future of the party is already taking shape, and that future will be, in some form or fashion, a conservative reaction against the Republican leadership that has sold them out. The smarter Republicans have already shaken off the trauma of electoral defeat and begun positioning themselves to capitalize.”

Matt Taibbi:

“Any pundit who tries to claim he knows where all of this is going is lying. This schism could be a disaster for Republicans (because it will further alienate the rank-and-file, middle-and-working-class voters from the party establishment, which will now be bashed from the outside by DeMint and the Tea Party), or it could actually be a good thing for the Republicans’ future prospects (there’s a way to look at this as a long-overdue purge of the party’s moron faction).”

“Or it could all be irrelevant. Remember, the Democrats were facing a similarly bitter split not too long ago, when their party’s mainstream unforgivably backed Bush’s idiotic Iraq invasion and then saddled us with a war-waffling presidential candidate in John Kerry. And just like the Republicans after Romney, the Democrats after the Kerry loss felt hopeless, depressed and self-hating – you heard a lot of ‘Screw it, I’m moving to Iceland’ talk. Four years later, the party sold the identical Kerry policy package in an exciting new Obama wrapper, and suddenly people were partying in the streets. You just never know how these things will turn out.”

“But in the meantime, this split in the Republican Party is a crazy and highly entertaining mess.”

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  1. socialistic ben says:

    The republicans must know that if they want to use that Romson…. right? i forget what his name was…. anyway…. if they want him to be their Kerry, Obama has to be OUR BushII. That is to say, while slightly more than 50% of the people though he had a good first term, EVERYONE had decided he sucked by the end.
    a) Obama had a much better first term than Bush by all rational measurements; and b) his second term should look a lot better, assuming the recovery is allowed to continue and republicans dont intentionally try to tank things….. scratch that…. the republican’s certain attempts to tank things not be allowed to work.

  2. Jason330 says:

    Modern humans don’t like the date rape theme, but “baby its cold out side” is a very nice croonerly tune with perfectly appropriate lyrics for its time.

    The song’s simplicity invites people to do really bad versions. (Kenny Rogers/Dolly Parton) Even Dean Martin’s wasn’t very good. I hope the definitive version is recorded in my lifetime: Fergie/Gwen Staphani

  3. socialistic ben says:

    ass-hat answer 1) so date rape was ok back when it was written?

    ass-hat answer 2) tone of voice suggests they have a pre-existing agreement where she plays hard to get and he has to be “assertive” as is that couple’s preference and who are we to judge what they find stimulating?

  4. Jason330 says:

    Oops – put that in the wrong space. But okay. Nice colloquy.

  5. bamboozer says:

    Conservatives will always be a part of the American political landscape, the question is will the inmates run the show. In the short term the reign of the insane will go on, the Tea Party will rant, conservative media will hate and people with scruffy beards and hunting hats will wait for Obama to come for thier guns. The elite of the party remains the minions of wealth and greed, the enablers of the plutocrats and Wall St. The Republican base has no intention of changing and conservative pundits still issue thier battle cry of “we were not conservative enough!”. Time will tell, but they’ll be back. And we must be ready to fight again and again. The fever has not broke, niether will it in the short term.

  6. Jason330 says:

    Of all the possible GOP options moving forward, “a purge of the party’s moron faction” has a 0% chance of happening.

  7. Rusty Dils says:

    Famous French Actor Gerard Depardieu has purchased a home and set up legal residence in Belgium to escape Socialist French President Francois Hollande’s New Tax Rate of 75% on the first million Euro of Income. Boy, I guess you would have had to have had the intelligence of a second grader to see that coming.

  8. Jason330 says:

    Therefore, you saw it coming.

  9. Jason330 says:

    By the way, earnings over one million euros are taxed. But since you claim to have the intellect of a second grader, you probably aren’t up on ordinal numbering.

  10. Jason330 says:

    Now gross? I never got him as a leading man.

  11. puck says:

    He’s pretty awesome in his 80’s movies: Return of Martin Guerre, Jean de Florette, Manon of the Springs, The Goat, Danton. Actually all of those are some of my favorite movies.

  12. cassandra m says:

    puck is right, Depardieu can be an amazing actor — The Last Metro is especially good, too. But he also takes on alot of dreck, but respect for working so very much when he really doesn’t need to. Depardieu has also been having a fair amount of legal issues in France, mostly around drunken behavior.

  13. Rustydils says:

    But you all miss the point. 500,000 euros per year in tax revenue just left france, probably for good with a bunch more to follow. What plan is the socialist going to come uo with to fix that. Guess what, step two, as the rich flee, all the non rich will have to pay a lot more taxes. It is a lose, lose proposition

  14. cassandra_m says:

    That’s probably unlikely. And a half of a mil in euros isn’t a ton of money when you have an economy the size of France’s. Depardieu is a very wealthy man – he owns wineries and other businesses all over the world, including his home country. If he is moving, he certainly isn’t moving his local investments. And even if he is moving, the French are probably collecting close to a half of a mil in fines for his bad behavior.

  15. jason330 says:

    If he really wanted to avoid taxes he’d move to the United States.

  16. Rustydils says:

    Casandra, ” Really”

  17. @Rusdydils–

    …as the rich flee, all the non rich will have to pay a lot more taxes. It is a lose, lose proposition

    Not really. The rich have to claim someplace as their home country. If Mr. Rich Guy wants to claim the Isle of Man or some other tax haven as his home, GOVERNMENTS of real countries can simply deny entry to citizens of tax havens. Better yet, we can tax the ever-loving shit out of them if they wish to enter any real country. I hope the rich tax evaders enjoy living in Grand Cayman during hurricane season.

    You right wingers rarely consider how others will respond to your actions. I’d include GHWB in that group. His luxury tax put a lot of blue collar boat builders out of work.

  18. Rustydils says:

    Roland, he moved to Belgium, bought a home, and took up legal residence. The mayor of the city he moved to proudly announced it publically. The max tax in belgium is 50 percent, hardly a tax haven, but still way cheaper than the new French 75 percent tax. So basically with the 250,000 euro savings minimum per year, he can treat himself to a new house every year, because it is basicly free compared to if he still lived in France. Roland, you are dead wrong about this one. The proof will be all those that follow.

  19. puck says:

    The French wine-shops are in a panic.

  20. geezer says:

    Getting rich people to leave the country is a feature, not a bug, of higher tax rates. Good riddance.

  21. socialistic ben says:

    so where are you gonna move to rusty?

    If all these rich people leave, all that rich people stuff will still have to be sold… at a lower price. I say let em go. I’ll even help them pack and drive them to the airport, since they are used to “the help” doing that anyway.

  22. puck says:

    Actually it points to the need for a tax treaty among EU members to avoid this kind of behavior. I’m imagining a treaty where EU members agree to a uniform top rate to prevent tax flight, although I agree 75% is kind of steep.

  23. auntie dem says:

    I’m liking the idea of a border tax every time they try to re-enter the country. Let them leave but tax the heck out of them if they try to come back. We have a homeland security watch list, it would be easy to set up a tax-evader watch list.

  24. Rustydils says:

    Or auntie dem, embrace capitalism and free enterprise. That is what built the most powerful, most free country in the world, not socialism and a police state you are encouraging

  25. Rusty-

    Unbridled capitalism brought us the Great Depression and Global Financial Crisis. Please tell me all about how unregulated Capitalism is great for everyone.

    As for a “police state”, we’re already living in one. The USA PATRIOT act guarantees that.

    “Socialism”-please define it in your own words. Your posts on this blog lead me to believe you have no idea what the word means.

  26. Rustydils says:

    Geezer, at what point in time do you want the rich people to leave. Before they become rich, while they are becoming successful and rich, or after they are very rich. If it is before they become rich, or while they are becoming rich, then I am assuming you are not using, or ever plan to use any microsoft or apple products, because you would have gotten rid of steve jobs and bill gates before they finished developing all these fine products. If you want to always get rid of them after they have become rich, then we would never have had those products anyway, because they would not have had any incentive to build them in the first place knowing their country was going to excile them if they became succesful

  27. Rustydils says:

    Roland, everyone knows free enterprise cycles up and down. We are not talking about no regulation, but modern regulation. Capitalism always has peaks and valleys, the more people buy, the more prices go up, until finally they are to high and the market corrects. But over regulation by the government makes the peaks and valleys steeper. Socialism in laymens terms. Everyone does the same regardless of their abilities or productivity. The worker that misses work, shows up late, does a poor job, gets the same salary as the worker who never misses, and has high productivity. The progressive tax code we ard currently under is a form of socialism. One person is more productive than another person, by making more money(maybe this person works two jobs) so we penalize the more productive person by making him pay a higher percentage of his income. That brings him back a little closer after taxes to the less productive person. The completely non socialist solution, flat tax rate. Then there is no penalty fir being more productive

  28. socialistic ben says:

    Socialism in laymens terms. Everyone does the same regardless of their abilities or productivity.

    it is interesting that ou can argue for “regulated” capitalism, or “american capitalism”, that you can understand why
    pure capitalism i a bad thing”, but you see only one type of Socialism…. and it is the same as the one type of Communism that you are capable of seeing.

  29. geezer says:

    Rusty: How silly. People invent products all over the world. They don’t have to live in the US to do so. It makes no difference to me if such products are invented by Americans or someone else.

    But I thought we were talking about people who have already made their pile leaving the country. Let ‘em go.

  30. puck says:

    Rusty – Inventors follow the research dollars, which Republicans are busy mocking because they don’t understand the science. Not much invention gets done after you drown government in your bathtub.

    The worker that misses work, shows up late, does a poor job, gets the same salary as the worker who never misses, and has high productivity.

    This is simply poor management. The market will deal appropriately with that employer. But our current economic problems happened through no fault of workers. The disaster was engineered at their expense by people far above the workers’ pay grade.