Monday Open Thread [11.12.12]

Filed in Open Thread by on November 12, 2012

Jonathan Chait:

“If there is a single plank in the Democratic platform on which Obama can claim to have won, it is taxing the rich. Obama ignored vast swaths of his agenda, barely mentioning climate change or education reform, but by God did he hammer home the fact that his winning would bring higher taxes on the rich. He raised it so relentlessly that at times it seemed out of proportion even to me, and I wrote a book on the topic. But polls consistently showed the public was on his side.”

“Obama’s goal was to prove to the GOP that their rigid defense of the richest one percent was political poison and to force them to bend. For now, at least, their same monomaniacal refusal to increase any taxes on the rich is leading Republicans to deny any connection between the tax issue and Obama’s victory.”

Joshua Green:

“Sure, partisan bickering will endure. There will still be Red America and Blue America, Fox News and MSNBC. But with one big difference: During Obama’s first term, and particularly in the last two years, the Republican Party had most of the leverage. The GOP’s willingness to reject stimulus, default on the debt, and sabotage the nation’s credit rating–threats that shook financial markets–often put the White House at the mercy of the opposition. In Obama’s second term, leverage will shift to the Democrats on almost every issue of importance. And that shift has already begun.”

Weekly Standard editor Bill Kristol urged the Republican Party to accept new ideas, “including the much-criticized suggestion by Democrats that taxes be allowed to go up on the wealthy,” the Huffington Post reports.

“It won’t kill the country if we raise taxes a little bit on millionaires. It really won’t, I don’t think. I don’t really understand why Republicans don’t take Obama’s offer. Really? The Republican Party is going to fall on its sword to defend a bunch of millionaires, half of whom voted Democratic and half of whom live in Hollywood and are hostile?”

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  1. Jason330 says:

    According to Grover Norquist, the election wasn’t about raising taxes on the wealthy at all. Nothing to do with taxes. Nope. Did someone say taxes? No. No way. Taxes? No. It was about Romney being a poopy-head.

  2. bamboozer says:

    For once Bill Kristol gets it right, now if he’d just admit the rich are not “job creators”. At some point Lord Norquist will fall from his perch of power and the Republicans will recant thier allegiance to his famed pledge. I still think that niether side is really interested in a balanced budget, unless they can do it on the backs of thier enemies.

  3. jason330 says:

    Bill Clinton did it. So your “both sides do it” bullshit needs to take a hike. Republicans are clearly the malfeasants.

  4. fightingbluehen says:

    “For once Bill Kristol gets it right, now if he’d just admit the rich are not “job creators”.”

    So Bill Gates is not a job creator? The Shell brothers aren’t job creators? There are also small business owners that are pretty well off that create many jobs. There are also small business owners that aren’t so rich that create many jobs, and those are the ones that will feel the greatest pinch when taxes go up.

  5. pandora says:

    And some people will willfully keep themselves in the bubble. For reality… please see Bush, George W., tax cuts/jobs created.

  6. cassandra_m says:

    Popcorn Time! In the coming GOP civil war, it looks like Karl Rove is first to the guillotine.

    In the wake of the party’s 2012 losses, however, Rove and his well-funded American Crossroads super PAC have become a symbol of misguided Establishment strategy, party cronyism, and Beltway bloat. The fall from grace is perhaps unsurprising, given his group’s disastrous performance this cycle. According to a new report, American Crossroads got a mere 1% return on its $104 million investment in 2012 races.

    For social conservatives, Rove’s treason began long before election day, when the Fox News contributor led the party’s tar-and-feathering of Missouri Senate candidate Todd Akin, who came under fire for his now infamous “legitimate rape” comments. The party’s perceived betrayal of Akin confirmed what many grassroots conservative activists had long suspected: That the Republican Establishment was willing to throw the base under the bus to serve the interests of deep-pocketed donors.

  7. Jason330 says:

    Awesome. Couldn’t happen to a better guy.

  8. John Young says:

    Uh oh, the secessionists have poke their neanderthal heads up:

  9. Rustydils says:

    What the disagreement between the president and gop congress is not raising taxes on millionares. It is raising taxes on people making over 250,000. There is a fundemental problem with doing this. Many business owners classified in the small business category make 250,000. Now, these are not generally mom and pop shops, but may employ 20, or 50 emploeeyes, or more, yet pay taxes on the individual scale. While these owners only represent 3 percent of the tax payers, they employ a full 1/2 of the employees employed by small business. And since small business employees half the work force, those top 3 percent employ 1/4 of the us work force. So raising taxes on them in these slow economic times would be catostrophic to job growth. I have two customers who have decided to close the doors just in the last week, due to uncertainties in the economy. One probably has about 20 employees, the other about 10. Both these companies have been in business for over twenty years

  10. jason330 says:

    “I have two customers who have decided to close the doors just in the last week, due to uncertainties in the economy. ”

    Bullshit. They couldn’t hack it. It happens. Stop crying for a bail out you pieces of shit. Man up.

    “raising taxes on them in these slow economic times would be catostrophic ”

    Pure bullshit. How do I know? I’m one of the employers you mention. How else do I know? Math.

    Something you dip shits don’t believe in. It is all faith based mumbo jumbo when you come around here. No links. no nothing expect your stupid ass Fox News progamming.

  11. jason330 says:

    Finally, if you want to lessen “uncertainty” stop trying to throw the country in the fucking trash can. Jesus you are dumb.

  12. John Young says:


  13. geezer says:

    Rusty: What kind of businesses do/did they own?

  14. puck says:

    One probably has about 20 employees, the other about 10.

    Let me guess – whining about “Obamacare,” right? Which kicks in at 50 employees?

    Both these companies have been in business for over twenty years”

    Retirement age, huh? Good for them and their long successful careers, the first half of which was spent benefiting from the Clinton boom, the second half spent sucking up the Bush tax cuts while the economy for everyone else tanked. Now somebody younger, with more patience and a better business model will take up their customers and hire their employees. Yay for free enterprise!

    Many business owners classified in the small business category make 250,000.

    Hooray for America! Hooray for success!

    If this is the usual BS about S-corps, then maybe instead these business geniuses should just re-incorporate under a different form.

    That is, assuming any part of your story is true.

  15. Liberal Elite says:

    @Rusty “I have two customers who have decided to close the doors just in the last week,…”

    But we all know that corporations like those thrived during the Clinton years. Surely you must realize that Obama is not proposing raising taxes above the level they were at during the Clinton years… so why all the angst?

    It makes no sense.

  16. Jason330 says:

    They are simply sore losers LE. A bunch of fucking cry babies who can’t hack it and need to “go Galt” already.

  17. cassandra_m says:

    Remember when RD would show up here with the lie of the week or day re: the election? This tale of woe about businesses closing is Just Like That. Pay no attention to that fool.

  18. pandora says:

    The idea that a successful business would decide to close their doors based solely on an election is ridiculous and probably a lie.

    My guess, if this is true, is that these weren’t successful businesses. Seriously, did they lose their customers/clients last Wednesday morning? If not, are we supposed to believe that they gave up their current income for something that may happen in the future?

    And Puck’s correct, both of these “brilliant” businessmen Rusty cites would be exempt from Obamacare. But FOX told them differently, so they took to their fainting couches.

    They should be out of business. That’s a whole lotta stupid.

  19. puck says:

    If anybody really is selling their business on account of the election, it is most likely because capital gains tax goes back up to 20% in January (from 15% now). And they were thinking about selling anyway.

    Also if these sore losers and their families want to avoid the higher estate tax in January, they know what they have to do.

  20. Jason330 says:


  21. Rustydils says:

    Geezer, both in the building products related industries. The larger of the two builds custom entry doors which are distributed through one of the home centers nationally. They have been losing money for several years now, just not near enough volume to make them profitable like a few years ago. So the owners decided to shut down voluntarily while they have a few bucks left. I am meeting with them tomorrow to start trying to help them sell off equipment. But it is not going to be easy because the overall market is depressed. The other one is a high end residential kitchen cabinet manufacturer. Mainly sell in Nm. Just to big of hole to dig out for them.

  22. Pencadermom says:

    A savy business owner learns to adjust to the market and/or to think outside the box. Maybe the first guy should research what type of carpentry is in need right now (that one might be tough)but he should have started trying to think outside the box and adjust his business to the needs and demands of customers a long time ago, sounds like he’s had several years to do that. The second should switch to making low end kitchen cabinets instead of high end. Right now it’s all about needs, not wants. High end custom doors and cabinets sound like wants, not needs (at least to me) 🙂 I do feel their pain, but yeah, thinking they are bailing due to the election? I think they are using that to put the blame somewhere. Cause that is easier.

  23. mediawatch says:

    Rusty’s buddies are in businesses that have been in tough shape since the housing market tanked … and their inconvenient truth is that the slide started when his idol Bush 43 was in charge.
    Taxes really aren’t the problem — failure to adjust to changing markets is the issue. And, hate to say this, but if their profit for the year falls below $250K, they won’t have to worry about paying higher taxes.