Police Chief On Trayvon Martin Case Is “Sure” Both, George Zimmerman And Trayvon, Wished They Would Have Done Things Differently

Filed in National by on March 18, 2012

My blood is boiling.

“We are taking a beating over this,” said Lee, who defends the investigation. “This is all very unsettling. I’m sure if George Zimmerman had the opportunity to relive Sunday, Feb. 26, he’d probably do things differently. I’m sure Trayvon would, too.”

Seriously?  Seriously?

What exactly should Trayvon Martin have done differently?  Not walked to the store?  Not worn a hoodie?

There is something very, very wrong in Sanford, Florida.  And I’m beginning to think what happened to Trayvon Martin is related to how the Sanford Police run their department.  I’m beginning to think that George Zimmerman knew, if faced with what happened on February 26th, he’d get off… maybe even get a pat on the back, or a medal.  And if he had actually shot and killed a “bad guy” he’d probably be heralded as a hero today.  And that is a frightening thought.  Far too often stories of a heroic citizen gunman are touted as the reason why guns are good, while stories of gun tragedies are dismissed as isolated incidents that shouldn’t be considered in the equation.

The article I’ve linked to is interesting.  It looks to me that George Zimmerman was a man on a mission, and that mission turned into an obsession in which he viewed himself as the law.  He became a vigilante.  He became one the second he ignored the 911 dispatcher’s instructions and got out of his car.

On the released 911 calls Zimmerman says the following:

“These assholes always get away,” he says to the operator. Zimmerman is then heard giving directions to the dispatcher. “Shit, he’s running,” Zimmerman says.

“Are you following him?” the dispatcher asks.

“Yes,” Zimmerman responds.

“We don’t need you to do that,” the dispatcher says.

The line “These assholes always get away” tells me that Zimmerman has already assumed the role of judge and jury and has found Trayvon Martin guilty of… what?

But take a close look at the “Shit, he’s running” comment.  While it appears Trayvon’s running signals guilt in Zimmerman’s mind – and I am assuming this based on the negative nature of the expletive preceding his words – there is another explanation for Trayvon’s running.

Simply, it’s what we parents teach our children when it comes to strangers.  We tell them to be aware of their surroundings, to be suspicious of people they don’t know approaching them, or following them, and, most importantly, we tell them to run.

Here’s one more thing to consider – One of the stated reasons Zimmerman called 911:

According to 911 recordings released late Friday by Sanford police, Zimmerman said the person was walking slowly, looked drugged and appeared to be looking at people’s houses.  [emphasis mine]

So… it seems Trayvon was guilty of “walking slowing” and “running.”  I’m really not sure what Trayvon could have done to escape Zimmerman’s attention that night.  In my opinion, Zimmerman cast himself as judge, jury and executioner… and the Sanford Police have sanctioned his actions.

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A stay-at-home mom with an obsession for National politics.

Comments (186)

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  1. jgarcia says:

    This needs the FBI or a credible authority looking at what exactly happened. I don’t trust the Sanford police.

  2. pandora says:

    You know, what’s to stop someone in Florida from picking a fight with someone, killing that person and then citing self-defense? How about a man who attacks a women, ends up with scratches on his face, kills her and cites self defense?

    And what about those women who killed their abusive husbands/partners and claimed self defense, but are in jail?

    The Florida Law looks like a legal way to murder someone and get away with it.

  3. kavips says:

    Zimmerman longed to become a police officer. In 2008 he applied to attend a local law enforcement academy, but he never entered the program. Nevertheless, Zimmerman apparently seized every opportunity to live out his fantasy of becoming a law enforcement officer.

    When his neighborhood association considered the idea of starting a neighborhood watch program, Zimmerman was the only person to volunteer. In his role as watch captain, Zimmerman warned neighbors to watch for suspicious persons, particularly “young black men” whom he believed were outsiders.

    Although some neighbors say that Zimmerman’s efforts prevented crimes, others, particularly blacks, complained about his tactics. Teontae Aime, a 17-year-old neighbor, said that Zimmerman “would circle the block and circle it; it was weird. . . If he had spotted me, he’d probably ask me if I lived here. He was known for being really strict.” Another black resident said that he stopped walking in the neighborhood because he fit the “stereotype” of individuals that Zimmerman deemed suspicious.

    According to local police, Zimmerman made dozens of 911 calls over the last 15 months. Usually, he called to report “suspicious” persons in the neighborhood. Zimmerman, however, has engaged in fantasy policing outside of the neighborhood watch program. In 2003, he followed a shoplifter in his car and called police to assist with an arrest. He also pursued another driver whom he said spat at him. The other driver, however, said that an “irate” Zimmerman was tailgating him. No arrests were made.

    Miami Herald/ Orlando Sentinel

  4. kavips says:

    Furthermore: since the police had in their possession the same 911 tapes we have all heard, .. their justification that Zimmerman is innocent, in the hands of an average lawyer, could easily fall under conspiracy.

    We will see a lot of Republican head roll on this on… Btw, the former head of the Florida Republican party, lives in….. Sanford, Florida.

  5. pandora says:

    This…

    “I’m sure if George Zimmerman had the opportunity to relive Sunday, Feb. 26, he’d probably do things differently. I’m sure Trayvon would, too.”

    …crosses every line imaginable. How dare this Police Chief make such a claim.

  6. AQC says:

    What should Trayvon have done differently? Not be a young black male?

  7. Aoine says:

    AQC – you stole my thunder – exactly what I was thinking

    and Zimmerman not a racist bigot with a hair trigger

  8. carol andrews says:

    This story just gets worse and worse. This very blatant and callous discrimination by the Sanford PD especially their police cheif Lee.
    He needs to be removed period. This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Never believed in Conspiracy theories before but I wonder if Illuminati is somehow involved in this….

  9. Jason330 says:

    I just heard the recording of Trayvon screaming for help just befor the gun shot. It is an open and shut case of murder and it should take rallies and protests to get the murder and the police chief behind bars.

  10. Jason330 says:

    After not arresting Zimmerman, if they do it now it will be an admission that they were wrong. I’ll bet they are lawyering up.

  11. pandora says:

    I’m not even sure if they took the evidence to make a case against Zimmerman – looks like the only thing they took was his version of the story.

    Did they impound his gun? Did they give him a breathalyzer? Did they test his clothing? Did the gun release shell casings and were they retrieved or even looked for? I can find no report that states they did any of these things. I hope they did, because if they didn’t I’m having trouble seeing a case against Zimmerman.

  12. Delaware Dem says:

    What exactly should Trayvon Martin have done differently? Not walked to the store? Not worn a hoodie?

    Not be black. That is what this story comes down to.

  13. Delaware Dem says:

    I see other commenters have made the same point.

  14. jeff says:

    you know the first thing you should do when looking over legal matters is look at all the evidence. The evidence had 2 witnesses confirm that there was a person with a white shirt on top , zimmerman was wearing a red shirt. When zimmerman was arrested he had a fucked up face and gashes on the back of his head. On top of this fact there were grass stains on the back of his shirt confirming that trayvon was indeed on top of him attacking him. self defense is solidly justified

  15. puck says:

    Self defense? You are kidding, right? So 17-year old Trayvon dragged Zimmerman out of his car and began manhandling this heavy-set adult? And when Zimmerman said “Oh shit, he’s running” he meant Trayvon was running TOWARD him? And when the 911 dispatcher told Zimmerman not to follow Trayvon he… uhhh, sorry, I’m out of crazy excuses.

    Hell, if I just shot an unarmed kid I’d probably roll around on the grass and smack myself in the head a few times too.

  16. pandora says:

    Complete and utter nonsense, Jeff. If Trayvon was fighting for his life (something I haven’t claimed since we don’t have the details) then I’d expect both would have grass stained clothing and injuries. Trayvon was on top? For how long? Did it happen when Zimmerman grabbed him and fell backward? I have no idea, and neither do you.

    Here’s what we know:

    1. Trayvon walked to the store and bought Skittles and a can of iced tea.

    2. Zimmerman, driving in his car, noticed Trayvon walking slowly in the neighborhood, called police and followed him

    3. Zimmerman’s words, “These assholes always get away” demonstrates that he labeled Trayvon as a bad guy.

    4. Zimmerman is told not to follow Trayvon.

    5. Zimmerman ignores instructions and when he leaves his car he takes his gun.

    6. What happens next is unknown. What is known is that a man with a gun, a man not law enforcement or wearing a uniform, gets into a confrontation (something he was specifically told NOT to do) with Trayvon.

    You see Zimmerman “defending” himself, yet deny that explanation to Trayvon – a kid being followed by a stranger in a car and then on foot. Why would you do that, when, by ALL accounts, Zimmerman is the aggressor in this situation up to this point?

    7. Trayvon is shot and killed.

    8. So far it appears that police let Zimmerman go home. Was there a breathalyzer test? Was the crime scene secured? What evidence was gathered?

    9. Police corrected witnesses statements to confirm Zimmerman’s account.

    The SYG law is based on self-defense in fear for your life. If Zimmerman feared for his life, why did he get out of the car? With a gun? And pursue Trayvon?

  17. jeff says:

    You are still missing peices of the story. First of all lets just forget about the whole “oh he was just buying skittles that makes him completely innocent” bit. If zimmerman had intended to kill somebody just because they were black as the media is insisting back and forth up and down , then he would have simply done it outright, not got into a fist fight risking the gun being taken away from him. So the simple fact that he did not use his weapon sooner solidifies his self defense case as he waited to use it until his life was in jepordy. And despite what the media is telling you what with “oh well he was older and heavier thats impossible” that goes against evidence that he was on the ground and he was beaten pretty bad. so its justifiable defense

    Secondly the neighborhood they were in was victim to 8 buglaries , 9 thefts , and one shooting the year leading up to the incident. Zimmerman serving as community watch during this time , justifying his words of “these assholes always get away”. Too many people are trying to paint this as some “code word” for him being racist. Race has nothing to do with it , zimmerman was hispanic.

    also He didnt “get out of the car and take his gun with him” he was a concealed weapons carrier , they never take the gun off in the first place. So again , any claims of premeditation are null and void.

    He WAS arrested , evidence WAS gathered , he WAS questioned , and the police determined they could not detain him any longer based on the accuracy of his claims of self defense.

    And police did correct witness testimony , because they later changed “what they heard” after the media attention went into overdrive. They had their calls recorded that night and none of them claimed a boy was screaming specifically , just that there was “screaming” , so when a witness then goes and changes their claims that the boy was screaming , that is going against recorded evidence taked directly after the crime.

    Innocent until proven guilty , thats why we have this law , so people dont pick favorites based on media swing

  18. Greg Landesman says:

    How can this guy even have a gun. I will not visit florida anytime soon and I was born and lived there. What everboby can pack and hunt for black kids. How can a150 pound BLACK kid overcome a 225 pound HISPANIC man. And I think Jeff and George had a beer together before George went out hunting and was told not to PURSUE. This is a duh for Sanford police sounds like they need to be investigated.Jeff were you there George could have rolled his fat butt and back on the ground. Jeff you are a real Magnum Pi.

  19. jeff says:

    ^ see look at all the assumptions based on nothing

  20. Liberal Elite says:

    @jeff “If zimmerman had intended to kill somebody just because they were black as the media is insisting back and forth up and down , then he would have simply done it outright, not got into a fist fight risking the gun being taken away from him.”

    That’s a ridiculous assertion… because then he couldn’t claim self defense.

    In fact your entire post is ridiculous, and I’ll bet you know it.

  21. pandora says:

    And yet there’s this:

    Zimmerman went door-to-door asking residents to be on the lookout, specifically referring to young black men who appeared to be outsiders, and warned that some were caught lurking, neighbors said.

    Leaving his car and following Trayvon – which resulted in escalating the situation – negates the self defense claim. Zimmerman also breaks every rule of Neighborhood Watch.

    You cite Zimmerman’s injuries (“beaten pretty bad”). Did he seek medical attention? I don’t know.

    You are also stating as fact things I can find no proof of. What evidence was gathered? Was Zimmerman’s gun impounded? Please provide a link to your sources. If you can’t provide a link, then you have no idea what you’re talking about.

    You also seem to be saying that since the neighborhood has had a series of burglaries then killing people is okay.

  22. socialistic ben says:

    “Race has nothing to do with it , zimmerman was hispanic.”
    so only white people can be racist?

    I think Zimmerman might be mentally ill. He made several calls to the police department reporting everything. There is clearly a degree of paranoia here. NOt justifying murder… which is what he did, no matter what Jeff says… Just saying racism could have played a role here, but the bigger issue is that Zimmerman may have other problems.

    MY outrage is directed entirely at the racist Sanford PD. They are a disgrace to law enforcement… EVEN in florida. All those pigs belong in jail. They let a man they probably knew to be unstable and paranoid drive around with a gun hunting black men.. just like he told people he was doing… then helped cover his ass when he murdered a young boy who was reacting the way ANY child would when being chased by a fat man in a car. He fought for his life and was denied justice. FUCK. THE. POLICE.

  23. jeff says:

    No what would negate a self defense claim would be if zimmerman attacked the kid outright , which didnt happen.

    Yes he did seek medical attention

    “you are stating facts i find no proof of” Thats my problem why? find your own information instead of being hand fed the opinion of the huffington post. But just in case you are unable to do so (which you clearly are) here is a link stating he was arrested http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/Nothing-to-Dispute-Sanford-Shooters-Self-Defense-Claim-in-Miami-Boys-Death-Police-Chief-142376875.html

  24. jeff says:

    “the racist sanford pd”

    lol @ all these people getting so bent out of shape and letting the media dictate how they feel about something.

    He had multiple black family members he wasnt racist. The police department isnt racist either. Claiming so negates any argument you have as you are obviously looking at this case with bitter feelings in the first place.

  25. socialistic ben says:

    They supported a neighborhood watchmen who told people to “watch out for black men” if you dont think that is racist, you also “aren’t racist”

  26. socialistic ben says:

    Why are racist people so afraid to just come out and say they are racist? They say racist things, support racist thoughts and institutions, but lack the courage to own their hate.
    Lemmie tell you something. If people tell you you are being racist, you don’t get to decide. Just because you have convinced yourself the shit you say isn’t offensive to YOU, doesn’t mean it isn’t to everyone else. Stop being racist AND a coward.

  27. jeff says:

    There is nothing racist about describing the individuals spotted during previous crimes in the neighborhood (which zimmerman was doing). BTW im sorry i have to break it to you , but young black males statistically have overwhelming involvement with crime. This isnt a “racist” viewpoint , its simply statistical. So what he was doing wasnt racist.

  28. jeff says:

    See this is just the kind of stuff im talking about. People have latched on to this story because its being pinned as “white man kills completely innocent black baby in cold blood”

    Not what it should be labled as

    “black teen killed in fight with florida community watch officer.

  29. socialistic ben says:

    I feel sorry for you jeff. I really do. You live in a world of false assumptions and have been lied to and brain washed. You dont even realize how klany you sound. You probably pride yourself on your…. im gonna say 2 black friends…. and think it somehow negates the lies you believe.
    It doesn’t. The fact that you buy that shit proves you make assumptions about racial groups of people and allow those assumptions to inform your opinions.
    THAT MAKES YOU A RACIST.

  30. pandora says:

    Thanks for the link. Glad they have the gun since there’s a debate over how many shots were fired.

    You are still applying reasoning to Zimmerman’s action that you won’t apply to Trayvon. Why is that? Why is your imagination the deciding factor?

    You still seem to be stating that… series of burglaries in a neighborhood + unarmed Trayvon Martin walking through the neighborhood = dead teenager… is just the price to be paid. That’s nuts.

  31. jeff says:

    “lied to and brain washed”

    sorry but the only person here who is brainwashed is yourself by thinking black crime rates are irrelevant in a discussion about a person suspecting somebody who was walking in the rain at night who stopped to look at houses in a community that has had a string of burglaries as “racist”

    sorry but the sad fact remains , black people commit more crime in the united states by such a wide margin that its inherently racist in itself. So of course die hard progressives are going to deny this and claim anyone who brings up that fact as racist.

    BTW im black

  32. jeff says:

    where did i say anywhere that what zimmerman did was okay ?

    its not , somebody died. its a tragedy

    But that does not mean he is guilty of murder because he defended himself

  33. pandora says:

    No what would negate a self defense claim would be if zimmerman attacked the kid outright , which didnt happen.

    Prove that.

    Your entire argument is based on something no one knows.

  34. pandora says:

    But that does not mean he is guilty of murder because he defended himself

    Prove that statement, as well.

  35. socialistic ben says:

    “BTW im black”

    still not justification for being a bigot. IF that’s true, i fell even worse for you.

  36. jeff says:

    I just did.

    Self defense isnt murder. The evidence says otherwise

    1.Zimmerman was wearing a red shirt the night of the incident.
    2.more than one witness reported a man with a white shirt being on top.
    3.To further solidify that testimony , zimmerman had a bloddied face and the back of his head was injured. This is on top of the fact that he had grass stains on the BACK of his shirt. This proves he was in a submissive state of conflict on the ground which backed up by his injuries is grounds for use of self defense.
    4.The screams in the tapes were confirmed to be zimmerman after police played the tapes for martins father and he concluded that “that wasnt my sons voice”
    5.If he had commited murder he would have fled the scene. Which he did the opposite. directly after the shooting when he had an audiance he placed the gun on the ground and claimed self defense.

  37. Liberal Elite says:

    @jeff “Self defense isnt murder.”

    It’s not that simple. If Zimmerman was the aggressor, then he can be guilty of murder (or manslaughter) even if he was defending himself. Since he was told to not pursue, a jury could convict if they believe he was initiating a conflict. There are many such convictions on the books.

  38. pandora says:

    I can play that game…

    1. Trayvon was wearing a hoodie
    2. People roll around on the ground when they’re fighting. Or, like I said earlier, Zimmerman could have grabbed Trayvon and fallen backwards with Trayvon on top. Truth: Neither one of us knows this. Difference: Unlike you, I never claimed to know.
    3. Zimmerman had grass stains. Well, Trayvon had a bullet hole. And since every responsible parent instructs their child to run, and if caught fight like hell, then perhaps Trayvon was employing his right to self defense. Why you won’t allow this possibility and are convinced of something that has NOT been proven amazes me. So… no proof of self defense mainly because no one knows what happened.
    4. The screams on the tape haven’t been verified. Still waiting on that info.
    5. Why would he have fled the scene? He knew the law. Truth: You have no idea why he remained at the scene.

    The second Zimmerman got out of his car he escalated the situation. If he had remained in the car – followed 911’s instructions not to follow Trayvon and followed every blessed rule of Neighborhood Watch (not going out alone, do not approach someone, call the police and sit tight. Ya know… Watch – then Trayvon Martin would be alive.

  39. jeff says:

    just because he pursued the person does not make him the initiator of the conflict. things like that have to be proven in court with evidence supporting it. There is no evidence supporting the idea he started the fight.

  40. jeff says:

    “trayvon was wearing a hoodie” a grey hoodie which could easily be mistaken for a white shirt in the dark.

  41. pandora says:

    And there’s no evidence he didn’t. Getting out of the car and following on foot – when he was flippin’ told not to – doesn’t bode well for his argument.

  42. pandora says:

    You are being ridiculous with the white shirt on top nonsense. We don’t know what happened. You think you do. You keep filling in the gaps in this story with theories that support Zimmerman’s story. Are you a member of the Sanford Police?

  43. jeff says:

    He wasnt told not to

    he was told “we dont NEED you to do that”

    there was no order to stop. Again will not hold up in the court of law

  44. Geezer says:

    Jeff: Are you a lawyer?

  45. socialistic ben says:

    Jeff, if your son was walking down the street and a stranger was following him, would you tell him to do what the stranger said?

    and yes, you ARE justifying murder and saying it’s ok.

  46. jeff says:

    “we dont know what happened”

    you are right thats why we have witness testimony that says there was a person with a white shirt on top of an unidentified person.

    zimmerman was wearing a red shirt , something impossible to confuse with white shirt.

    Martin was wearing “as described by zimmerman himself” a grey hoodie. which can easily be confused for a white shirt in a dark setting.

    That is varifyable evidence of zimmerman being assaulted , whether you like it or not.

  47. Geezer says:

    “That is varifyable evidence of zimmerman being assaulted , whether you like it or not.”

    No, it’s not.

  48. socialistic ben says:

    As long as the guy following your son SAYS he’s a neighborhood watch person, he should get in the stranger’s car i guess. When the guy starts chasing him on foot, he should obey what this much bigger person says. When that guy shoots and KILLS YOUR SON… it’s fine, because your son is black, and black males commit a lot of crimes… so at least the guy THOUGHT he was killing a ciminal…UNARMED… so it’s ok.

    you’re sick. seek help.

  49. Geezer says:

    “There is no evidence supporting the idea he started the fight.”

    He pursued and confronted an unarmed teen-ager. No pursuit, no confrontation, no fight. Unless you’re a lawyer, why not STFU and cut your losses?

  50. jeff says:

    “hur dur what if it was your son”

    If it was my son i would want to know what happened. Instead of calling up jesse jackson and making my sons death a fucking circus.

    And no the first and second response to being followed wouldnt be to fucking start a fight with a complete stranger. you are a bad parent if you believe that shit. You are assuming that zimmerman was trying to rape the kid in the middle of the street and all young little martin could do to protect himself was beat the living shit out of a guy in somebodies backyard. you run and thats it.

  51. socialistic ben says:

    Zimmerman has wounds consistent of someone trying to fight him off to save their live.
    Careful everyone…. in Florida, if you are assaulted, you are the criminal if you hurt your attacker.

  52. jeff says:

    just found out that innocent trayvon was on suspention for 10 days at his school where he was an “A-B student”

  53. socialistic ben says:

    HE DID RUN! Zimmerman said “oh shit, he’s running” He was running, Zimmerman chased him and caught him. Zimmerman was in no danger at all. Good for Trayvon for putting up a fight and getting some licks in.. rather than just be ilegally aprehended by a fake cop with a cowboy complex. Zimmerman was NEVER in any danger. He had a GUN..
    A GUN
    A FUCKING GUN
    And the little “description fitter” had skittles.

    listen to the 911 calls

  54. socialistic ben says:

    ok. im done. jeff, i hope this is an act you’re putting on to upset people online… i mean, that’s deranged enough, considering the seriousness of this case…

    but if you are using a 10 day suspension to back up a murder…. you have immense problems and i pray we aren’t neighbors. I was once suspended, i should watch my back.

  55. jeff says:

    I did listen to the calls and you are choosing what you want to hear. Zimmerman clearly stated he was staring him down and coming towards the vehicle

  56. jeff says:

    “murder”

    again there is no evidence for that and you are just buttdevestated that you cant form an argument that doesnt include “hur dur the guy was a racist with a cowboy complex!11″

  57. Liberal Elite says:

    Based on what’s been presented here, I’d vote to convict.

    Someone with a license to carry needs to be responsible, not reckless.

  58. jeff says:

    “reckless”

    reckless would be if he drove by and shot him on sight.

    Getting into a fight to the point where the back of your head is fucked up is more than enough incentive to use a gun in self defense

  59. socialistic ben says:

    what qualification did Saint George Slayer of Evil, have to even get out of his car? he is a civilian with no authority.

  60. jpconnorjr says:

    Hey Jeff, can you spell OBSESSED? The POINT is the handling of the case. Once the facts are in the open the justice can begin

  61. socialistic ben says:

    no, i said i was done. i am. It’s pointless to talk to someone so lost and consumed by lies…

    ya know, if Tryavon was a white kid, there would be a huge discussion about Zimmerman’s immigration status and the dangers of letting people appoint themselves cops.

  62. Liberal Elite says:

    @jeff “Getting into a fight to the point where the back of your head is fucked up is more than enough incentive to use a gun in self defense”

    Not if he was the instigator. Where the hell did you grow up, anyway?

  63. pandora says:

    If you want to keep filling in the blanks that no one knows…

    I did listen to the calls and you are choosing what you want to hear. Zimmerman clearly stated he was staring him down and coming towards the vehicle

    Did Zimmerman pull his car over ahead of the direction Trayvon was walking. If so, then Trayvon would have been walking toward him.

    This is almost too easy.

  64. Another Mike says:

    Zimmerman himself, in one of the 911 calls, said Martin was wearing a “dark” hoodie, then said maybe it was gray. Not white, not light-colored.

  65. jeff says:

    “huge discussion about Zimmerman’s immigration status”

    This is my favorite thing about liberals , racism only matters when you are defending your arguments.

  66. Liberal Elite says:

    @jeff “BTW im black”

    Well. It’s been fun you little troll, but you are so FOS. I’m done too.

  67. jeff says:

    “jeff you are racist”

    “no im black”

    “you are still racist”

    “lol no”

    “why arent we investigating zimmermans immigration status?!?!”

    “^lol wat”

    “jeff you are a troll and really cant be black because this would void all of my racism based arguments”

  68. socialistic ben says:

    damnit.
    I didnt say we should be investigating his satus you troll…. but i DO know republicans and it IS an issue for them.
    how come every Nathalie Holloway or baby jessica is such a big deal, but when a non white girl is murdered, it’s no big thing?
    ok im really done.

  69. jeff says:

    How come everytime a black person is killed by somebody outside their race its a hate crime but its totally normal everyday when black people kill eachother?

  70. Liberal Elite says:

    @jeff ““jeff you are a troll and really cant be black because this would void all of my racism based arguments””

    You fail to realize that I know and have known quite a few blacks. I used to live in Oakland… played bball with several there. I’ve also hired a few in my professional life and worked with them…

    There’s not a black in America who would push this sort of crappy BS: “How come everytime a black person is killed by somebody outside their race its a hate crime but its totally normal everyday when black people kill eachother?”

    You are far far more likely to be a klansman that you are to be a black man. There aren’t any blacks around that think like you do. It takes a special kind of hate…. It’s surprising that you have no shame.

    Now I’m really done.

  71. pandora says:

    I dismissed the black guy claim from the start. It’s the latest troll tactic.

  72. Liberal Elite says:

    @p “I dismissed the black guy claim from the start. It’s the latest troll tactic.”

    But it’s a lousy tactic. A blatant lie totally undercuts ones message.

  73. Jason330 says:

    So, “feeling threatened” is now the bar for legal murder. In that case, there is not a circumstance in which a white guy (particularly the white trolls commenting here) could not legally kill a black teen because they are always feeling threatened.

    Frankly, it is a wonder than more black teens aren’t gunned down by these wannabe cops and gun nuts everyday. Just reading the comments here, it is clear that they are pissing their pants on an ongoing basis.

  74. Liberal Elite says:

    @J “Frankly, it is a wonder than more black teens aren’t gunned down by these wannabe cops and gun nuts everyday.”

    Because they’re too busy killing their girlfriends and spouses (the #1 murder crime in America).

    In fact, getting shot by your boyfriend/husband is the #1 cause of maternal death for pregnant women… only in America. They sure don’t like abortion, but they seem happy to get away with this old redneck divorce.

  75. liberalgeek says:

    If someone shouts “Freeze, Neighborhood Watch!” am I supposed to take them at their word? I got news for you, some neighborhood watch guys tries to impede me on a walk through a neighborhood, he isn’t gonna be able to get off a shot.

    You think I’m suspicious, call the cops. I will happily tell them what I’m doing.

    What Jeff is saying is that the burden of proof of Trayvon’s innocence is Trayvon’s responsibility, since he’s black. But Jeff is trying to justify the killing based on past crime in the neighborhood, some pseudo-statistic about the rate of criminality of ethnic groups, and even Trayvon’s school record. (Trayvon was suspended for excessive tardiness)

  76. Liberal Elite says:

    @lg “Trayvon was suspended for excessive tardiness”

    How about citing statistics that show that blacks are FAR more likely to be suspended from public schools than white for the same infraction? It’s a grossly overused tool, and it’s a huge problem.

  77. JimmyF says:

    @Jeff, you’re a real crown jewel defending somebody that just killed a 17-year old. First off, let me tell you that you know jack shit. You’re obviously not an attorney, nor are you familiar with the law.

    After a “homicide” (which is when you take somebody else’s life), if you claim self-defense, that is a question for the jury. Period. If a homicide has taken place, and if you have legitimate reason to kill this person, self-defense, self-defense of a loved one, somebody breaking into your home, etc. then you are not convicted. But as I stated, THAT IS A QUESTION FOR THE JURY.

    As we have all seen here, there is a question of if it was reasonable or not. There is a question of self-defense when somebody has a gun and the other person does not. As such, a jury of 12 peers should be the ones to decide that, not some POS police unit. If you don’t see that then you don’t have a clue about the American justice system which is the only thing that it being made to look like a “circus.”

    FYI: in every state, self-defense can only be used in direct proportion to what is being used against you. You cannot use deadly force unless your life is in danger.

    Straight out of my law book clown:
    “A person using force in self-defense should use only so much force as is required to repel the attack. Non-deadly force can be used to repel either a non-deadly attack or a deadly attack. Deadly Force may be used to fend off an attacker who is using deadly force but may not be used to repel an attacker who is NOT using deadly force.”

    And if you say, “well he feared for his life,” reread what I said above…let the jury answer that question, because this POS put himself in that situation and just took some innocent kids life.

  78. liberalgeek says:

    Jimmy – out of curiosity, what is the state and year on your law book?

  79. JimmyF says:

    Law books are not state specific because they are published nationally. 2010. It is out of my bar prep book. I can find some FL if you would like.

  80. JimmyF says:

    FL Statute:
    776.012 Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:
    (1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or
    (2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013.
    History.—s. 13, ch. 74-383; s. 1188, ch. 97-102; s. 2, ch. 2005-27.
    http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2011/776.012

    As I stated, it is still a question for the jury to decide if it was reasonable self-defense and use of deadly force. He should be facing manslaughter charges, increased b/c he took the life of a child, and increased b/c he used a firearm, facing up to 30-years in prison.

    And further, from my understanding, self-defense will not usually hold up as a defense if the person claiming self-defense initiated the contact or put themselves in that situation.

  81. reality check says:

    What is wrong with you people responding to a maniacal moron like Jeff. He’s probably that garbage minded Jeff that calls the Mascitti show. The only thing black about him is his soul and his heart. It’s the old tree falling in the forest, if no one listens or responds his animal-like sounds will never be heard,

  82. pandora says:

    I’m sorry for feeding the troll, rc. :-(

  83. Joe Cass says:

    I’ve been angry for two weeks about Trayvon’s murder and angry for months on end regarding the sanctioned abuse of peaceful protesters and angry over the blind eye that graces white collar felons. The badge is the symbol of shame, tyranny and oppression. You might think you know one and not all can be judged by the actions of a few. Wrong. Let the NRA sort out the bodies; may it be a multitude.
    -Joe Cass

  84. Tammy says:

    WOW I thought it was mostly Republican posted misinformation.

    Not to defend Jeff but he repeated F.B.I and U.S. Justice department statistics. Now he is a bigot?

    @JimmyF http://lawbrain.com/wiki/Self-Defense Your law book should sue them from copyright infringement.
    Also kinda of odd is that my husband had totally different study books for the California and the Kansas bar exams. Also I rather have a DA and a Grand Jury take a look at a case first, before your 12 peers take a look. Any educated person that served on jury duty knows what I mean.

    Sorry got distracted by the fake black person and fake law student.

    I am no expert on Florida law so I have no clue what Zimmerman should be charged with. His story might be 90% true. I do think the athletic kid did beat the overweight guy down. I also think Trayvon probably started the physical attack. Also it is was Zimmerman crying for help on the 911 tapes. Residents must really not like him since no one came to help.

    If Zimmerman is following this kid in his private vehicle and wearing some normal coat, how is this kid suppose to know that the guy is not trying to mug him? When I volunteered a Shriners Hospital charity event I was given a jacket that said security in reflective letters. Also what time did this happen at? I would guess between 9PM-10PM, given he walked to the store at halftime of the NBA All-Star game. Is that the normal burglary time?
    I really would like to see a copy of the police report that Zimmerman filled out.

    I hope a law comes out of this that a person claiming to be part of neighborhood watch has to wear a identify uniform and may not patrol alone. To bad a child had to die from a terrible mistake of an adult.

  85. socialistic ben says:

    ” I also think Trayvon probably started the physical attack. ”
    why do you think that? Based on the report of a bunch of cops trying to save their asses?

    we know fatty mcdicpshit’s side of the story, but how about Trayvon’s
    He was walking home and car was following him…. the person, who was a STRANGER then got out of the car and started following him on foot! told him to stop.

    PARENTS! what is the FIRST THING you tell your children to do when a stranger is following them and telling them to stop?
    He ran. Deputy Cyclops followed and likely announced he had a gun. (since he is a by-the-book fraud cop)
    Zimmerman provoked an attack on himself… he started to lose the fight to a child and killed the child. and unarmed child. The fake cop disobeyed “orders” to leave the boy alone, chased down a child half his age, and when he was unable to illegally subdue his prey, he killed.

    None of the arguments of people defending Sheriff Shithead matter, because from the very start he was a big, armed adult stranger chasing an unarmed child who happened to be in much better shape than him. Zimmerman, Chief Bill Lee, and all the other co-conspirators wont do well in prison.

  86. pandora says:

    And right here…

    I do think the athletic kid did beat the overweight guy down. I also think Trayvon probably started the physical attack. Also it is was Zimmerman crying for help on the 911 tapes. Residents must really not like him since no one came to help.

    … is where you show your true colors.

    Consider this: Had Zimmerman followed 911’s instructions we wouldn’t be having this debate. As soon as Zimmerman ignored the instructions and followed Trayvon he became the aggressor.

  87. socialistic ben says:

    Now what i have just said is speculation. A lose narrative based on public facts about the incident…. i have no more basis for my story than any of who you claim Trayvon “got himself shot” or “started it” (you people make me sick for blaming the victim)
    Zimmerman started it by getting involved in a non-crime. THAT is a fact. He wasn’t stopping any sort of wrongdoing. He was acting on prejudices that he has a documented history of displaying. (see his chat to neighbors about watching out for black males)

    damnit, i said i was done with this. oh well.

  88. Geezer says:

    To those who claim to have listened to the 911 tapes: What about Zimmerman’s statement, “these fucking coons.” Doesn’t that kind of screw up the “race-neutral” bullshit you gun worshipers are pushing?

  89. socialistic ben says:

    I hadnt caught that part of the tape, Geezer. I heard “these ass holes always get away” ’bout what time does he say that? i believe you… just curious.

  90. pandora says:

    Here’s the call Geezer references. (approx. at 2:20) Has this call been verified?

  91. JoAnne says:

    Jeff, according to you, If I’m walking down the street and you approach me, push me and I fight back, you have the right to kill me because you were in fear for your life. You’re not only mistaken, but you’re a fucking idiot! … and a dangerous one at that.

  92. Truth Teller says:

    ????????????

  93. Andrea says:

    Wow, this entire situation is so sad. I hope all of the police officers in Zimmerman’s unit come out to support him, along with the police union because as a police officer…STOP, WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!!See how silly this can get. Zimmerman is NOT A POLICE OFFICER, and should not be protected as if he is a police officer, and he doesn’t need any more stupid support from the Sandford Police Department, nor its Silly Chief. Zimmerman murdered a gifted young man based on his own obsession with racial profiling. He is neighborhood watch patrol, which is also known as watch, call, and wait on the police fool. I pray that he spends time in jail, a young man’s life worth, to think about how he, not Trayvon Martin, but how he should have done things differently. No second chances to do it again the right way Zimmerman, so now you must pay for the crime. But no matter how this ends, I know God is in control and only he knows how this will end. Justice for Treyvon!

  94. Phillip says:

    I am getting real tired of people saying this shooting is white on black!!!! Zimmerman is part Mexican and NOT WHITE.
    Look at the freaking photo of the guy.
    If it was white on black Al Sharpton and Jesses Jackson would have flew out there the same day of the tragedy.

  95. Tammy says:

    @Geezer I heard the “these fucking coons” too. But only on youtube, I listened to the ABC one a few times and can’t hear it. I can’t tell if it was inserted or deleted.

    @socialistic ben Someone that calls the cops for someone spitting on them and not doing anything about it, probably doesn’t have the balls to start a physical fight. Also how the kid was shot, and Zimmerman most likely didn’t have his firearm out at the beginning. Trayvon girlfriend was on the phone with him, by her account sounds like he (ran/walked fast) because someone was following him, then after being cornered he confront Zimmerman. “Trayvon said, ‘What, are you following me for,’ and the Zimmerman said, ‘What are you doing here.’ then headset(bluetooth?) fell off. So one would assume that is when the fight started at that moment.

  96. Tammy says:

    @pandora
    “… is where you show your true colors.
    “Consider this: Had Zimmerman followed 911’s instructions we wouldn’t be having this debate. As soon as Zimmerman ignored the instructions and followed Trayvon he became the aggressor.”

    This is where you show your true intelligence.
    I never said Zimmerman should of not followed Trayvon.
    Just to be a b#%@#. Talk about me.
    There was not 911 instructions, because Zimmerman didn’t call 911.
    Also Zimmerman was not told to stop and not to told to not to follow. He was told “you don’t need to do that”.
    It’s important to get the facts right. “Fruit from the poisonous tree”.

  97. Tammy says:

    Did the cops talk to kids girlfriend the night or next day of the shooting? One would think the cops would call back the last number on Trayvon’s phone considering it was so close to the time of the shooting.

  98. pandora says:

    Who knows if the cops contacted the girlfriend. They didn’t do much of anything it seems, except take Zimmerman’s story and run with it. Given all we actually know, you’re giving the Sanford Police a lot of credit.

    He called the police and the police dispatcher said “we don’t need you to do that” Zimmerman said “OK.” If you knew the first thing about how police handle these situations you’d know they don’t order you. If they order you to do, or not do, something and something goes wrong they’re in trouble.

    You, Tammy, are quite willing to make up a scenario favorable to Zimmerman, but unwilling to give an unarmed kid walking home from a store, followed by a stranger the same consideration.

    Keep showing those colors, Tammy.

  99. JimmyF says:

    @Tammy, you’re an idiot…period. Go ask your idiot husband what the self-defense laws are in CA are or in general and if they don’t mimic exactly what I stated above. Just b/c I didn’t want to type it out word for word from my casebook doesn’t mean it’s not the truth. Any legal casebook or legal online reference will show the same: Sprankling, Barnett, LexisNexis, Westlaw, will state exactly what I stated. I also included the statute that defines what self-defense is directly from FL.

    From Barbri (if you idiot @$$ or your lame husband has ever heard of that):
    “A person may use deadly force in self-defense if (i) she is without fault, (ii) she is confronted with unlawful force, and (iii) she is threatened with imminent death or great bodily harm.”

    Zimmermans case falls flat on its face when you look at (i) and (iii). Zimmmerman was not without fault b/c he pursued this kid.

    And apparently we can’t rely on a DA in a bigoted police force, or this happens. You think that these 911 calls that were just released to the public, they didn’t have? That they didn’t know that he clearly got out of his vehicle and pursued a minor with a loaded gun? That he got a concealed weapon license even though he previously faced charges of battery on a police officer?

    Only person lying is your idiot ass b/c you apparently like making up facts instead of clearly understanding what everybody else does, that this is a tragedy and our justice system has failed in this case, that is why higher authorities are stepping in.

  100. Debbie J. says:

    Since when did walking down the street become a crime. Oh…that’s right! It’s not. Unless you’re African American. This is beyond appalling. They need to put both George Zimmerman AND the police chief UNDER the jail. Trayvon was murdered for being black. That is all.

  101. Phillip says:

    Debbie why do people call blacks “African Americans”? The last 4 generations of blacks have had nothing to do with Africa…..nothing. The only thing these people have in common are their silly sounding first names. I am not an Polish American because 3 generations ago in my family history, they landed in this country……You can call me American or white, but not Polish American.

  102. Jason330 says:

    Phillip, Do I really need to explain this? The fact that you don’t consider yourself “Polish American” doesn’t mean that others don’t use that terminology. I am an Irish American and I associate myself with the history and culture of Ireland because 4 generations ago, that’s where my people lived.

    Why would you want to deprive other American of a cultural heritage? Why, other than racism I mean, would you?

  103. Que Pasa says:

    Phillip,

    More like 7 or 8 generations.

    But, yes, “African American” is as absurd an ethnonym as it gets.

    Though a bit less absurd than the entirely contrived “Hispanic” nonsense; as if Cameron Diaz, a Dominican beisbol player and an Ecuadoran mountain-man have anything in common…other than some unfounded ‘right’ to affirmative action set-asides because their last name may contain the letter ‘z’.

  104. liberalgeek says:

    Phillip – I will from here on refer to you as an ignorant-American.

  105. cassandra m says:

    Ever notice that there are never complaints about Irish Americans or Italian Americans or German Americans or WTF is Pennsylvania Dutch? That’s sorta backwards too. Somehow it is only the black and brown people are aren’t entitled to a reminder of their joint heritage.

    And of course these wingnut rat bastards would find the egregious thing here what African Americans call themselves — not the fact that there is a child dead at the hands of one of the ignorant comrades.

    So let’s get back on topic gang and there won’t be a second warning.

  106. cassandra m says:

    Bravo, LG.

  107. Que Pasa says:

    Is Charlize Theron an “African American”? No, of course not. She’s white, but from Africa.

    Thus my contention with the term “African American” is its erroneous insertion in the place of the word “black” or the archaic “negro” when, in fact, not all Africans are black…and even those that are so-called “black” aren’t even remotely related culturally, linguistically or genetically (e.g. West African Cameroonians and East African Kenyans).

  108. Geezer says:

    “Zimmerman is part Mexican and NOT WHITE.”

    Um, you might want to check the facts on that. Hispanics can be white or black. You could look it up.

  109. Geezer says:

    “why do people call blacks “African Americans”? The last 4 generations of blacks have had nothing to do with Africa…..nothing.”

    Yeah, what’s with those people, anyway? So we enslaved their ancestors and then kept the descendants in the Jim Crow apartheid system, complete with laws prohibiting intermarriage, until 1964, but that was years ago! Why can’t they get over the fact that white people just don’t like them because of the way they remind white people of their collective guilt?

  110. Geezer says:

    QP: Yeah, your contentions are the important ones. LOL.

  111. reality check says:

    Pennsylvania Dutch is a brand name for a great tasting eggnog with whiskey, brandy rum etc. You can get it seasonally at State Line liquors

  112. Liberal Elite says:

    @QP “Thus my contention with the term “African American” is its erroneous…”

    No one cares. This is just how right wingers expressing stupid thoughts.

    Why not focus on the real issue… Like how this is an utter disaster from the NRA perspective.

  113. Que Pasa says:

    CM,

    As we move further in time from the Slave Era in the Americas and as the world becomes more interconnected and diversified, should we not seek to be more accurate in our discriptions of one another? Or at the very least have a modicum of understanding in the inherent difference (chasm really) between our half-white, half-Kenyan President and American blacks descended from West African slaves?

    Regardless, back on topic, how on earth is this Zimmerman character “one of the (sic) ignorant comrades”?

  114. V says:

    QP: feel free to get back on topic after reading and satisfying your inquisitive nature
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_american#The_term_.22African_American.22

    seems like the majority of people tend to prefer black in informal settings and African American in more formal settings (similar to white/caucasian)

    and honestly who am i to be judgy and mad about how someone labels themself?

    and i dont care what race Zimmerman is, that doesn’t have any effect on his prejudicial behavior. people of all races can be racist assholes to other races.

  115. socialistic ben says:

    and all the racists rally around their new hero.

  116. V says:

    ooh yay! you were getting back on topic WHILE i was typing.

  117. Liberal Elite says:

    @QP “…should we not seek to be more accurate in our discriptions of one another?”

    Ah yes. Labels are so important. Now let’s be accurate… So today, are you an ignorant buffoon or a slimy weasel?

  118. Liberal Elite says:

    @sb “and all the racists rally around their new hero.”

    I’m guessing the guy doesn’t make 30. If they put him in jail, he’s dead. If they don’t put him in jail, he’s dead. But hey.. That’s OK… I’m sure they will have felt threatened by him.

  119. socialistic ben says:

    If he gets his own brand of justice, it will be a shame… if he’s killed in jail, it will be a shame.
    He needs to spend a long, long time in jail knowing he is not a hero, as the Sanford PD and Jeff would have us believe… but a murderer.
    The bigger villains are the Sanford PD. As a progressive, i question if Zimmerman has a mental illness. The level of paranoia displayed by him is one that SHOULD raise red flags for any normal community…. not Sanford Florida. Because his paranoia was directed at black males, he probably seemed like a stand up guy to Sanford Florida and Police Chief Bill Lee… 407.688.5070 …. (office number) THEY are the one’s who allowed this to happen. They are the ones who supported a man who’s stated mission was to hunt black men. What did they do when he made a kill? They let him go, possibly ruining any chance of a conviction.
    LE, you’re probably right. Zimmerman is now a target, and i cant say i disagree with that. I maintain that the sanford police department is just as culpable, if not more, than the sick man.

  120. pandora says:

    They can’t talk about what happened to Trayvon because, for some reason, they feel saying what happened to this boy would threaten everything they hold dear. This is the sign of a weak ideology.

    You see, if they actually addressed what happened to Trayvon they’d have to address the Stand Your Ground Law or the Sanford Police’s shameful past, or how race played a role in this scenario.

    Instead they throw out stupidity in an attempt to distract from the fact that Tryvon is dead because of an over-zealous, self-appointed community watch captain with a gun who was sick and tired of these “assholes” who always get away. They’d also have to deal with the Sanford Police who are coming across as an accessory to murder.

    All that said, stay on topic.

  121. Liberal Elite says:

    @sb “LE, you’re probably right. Zimmerman is now a target, and i cant say i disagree with that. I maintain that the sanford police department is just as culpable, if not more, than the sick man.”

    Don’t forget the NRA. Their behavior has been reprehensible. They deserve whatever scorn is heaped on those cowards.

  122. Tammy says:

    @JimmyF LOL I am a idiot, because I caught you lying? Sorry son you will never be a lawyer.

    “Straight out of my law book clown:”

    “Just b/c I didn’t want to type it out word for word from my casebook doesn’t mean it’s not the truth.”

  123. Phillip says:

    I love it when morons are blaming this on the Sanford Police Chief. Jeb Bush with pressure from the NRA forced this “Stand your ground” law through the Fl legislature, blame them.
    Now Al Sharpton, the NAACP, and the Black Panthers are going to protest.
    Apparently the rule of law means nothing to liberals as long as they get their welfare checks on time.
    People who live in that subdivision have had a large amount of burglaries from, “drum roll please”…young black males.

  124. puck says:

    Sorry it’s really too soon to point this out but…. I LOVE that Jeb Bush signed Florida’s SYG law into effect. One day it will be his reverse Willie Horton moment.

  125. sonya says:

    @ Jeff does saying your Black validate your ignorance? Saying that really reflects your inner hatered and disdain for the black race and guilt of your prejudice. If you feel strongly about your stance then it does not matter what color you are you would stand on your belief despite attacks or opposition but to say btw I’m Black means that your motive does not come from the passions of your conviction but a false sense reality rooted in RACEISM! The facts are the youth was unarmed, undersized, and due to being pursued fought back (if he passed a lick) a stranger whom he identifed to the last person he spoke to on this earth. Even if fought this man he had no right to kill a KID he pursued in viligante justice. Because crazy Zimmerman aspired to be a cop he knew he would stand behind the self defense law. If you are that afraid and felt the need to shoot why shoot to kill? Why not a shot to the leg or other body parts to subdude? Why shoot to kill? Answer- To slience the witness of his account of what happened that night and avoid arrest for stalking and viligante justice.

  126. Tammy says:

    @pandora You like to falsely project one’s opinion.

    “Who knows if the cops contacted the girlfriend. They didn’t do much of anything it seems, except take Zimmerman’s story and run with it. Given all we actually know, you’re giving the Sanford Police a lot of credit.”

    We found out they did not. I like to look at facts. I know you probably not use to critical thinking. I asked to question to know, not speculate if the cops did a investigation. The detective should be fired.

    “If you knew the first thing about how police handle these situations you’d know they don’t order you.”

    My first four year degree was criminal justice. I almost feel guilty to even comment on your ignorant statement. No, that is completely incorrect.

    You, Tammy, are quite willing to make up a scenario favorable to Zimmerman, but unwilling to give an unarmed kid walking home from a store, followed by a stranger the same consideration.

    Below is from my first comment. You really need to take a philosophy class.

    “If Zimmerman is following this kid in his private vehicle and wearing some normal coat, how is this kid suppose to know that the guy is not trying to mug him?”

  127. kavips says:

    Several things are pretty clear.

    One, this was a lynching. Whether Zimmerman put some thought into it beforehand, or it was spontaneous, will be decided later. But it is exactly what used to go on in the South of old… “Man, I’m having a bad day. Let me kill one of ‘em so I feel better.”

    Two: This was cold blooded murder. There was no scuffle. There was no fight. There was no possible way anyone could look at it and say it was in self defense.

    Three: Because no evidence that a scuffle ever occurred, the fact that Zimmerman was not immediately arrested, proves that murdering a person of color is still considered a “rite of passage” in that Republican neighborhood. Not all Republicans are racist; but all racists ARE Republicans. The attempt to cover up the incident by the police force to “make it look like” an altercation did occur, shows that the police were complicit in protecting one of their own and putting the blame on that unknown stranger bloodying up the sidewalk, who they thought, could never tell the truth.

    Four: They would have gotten away with it, but for modern technology. They didn’t take into account the power of a cellphone. The fact we do have these records… means they, the lynching committee, was not very technologically savvy.

    Five: Just like the Old South (aka George Wallace), defied a greater citizenry to impose their liberal values upon the old South, for any justice to occur, it will take the rest of the country to again, do just that. Liberal values are close to sainthood; just ask Jesus himself. It will take a whole nation to shame all Republicans(not just Floridians) whose absolute irrationality, is what made this event possible… Florida’s law was passed so it would be legal to hunt down blacks and kill them… There is no other reason any Republican would even consider passing such a stupid bill. Call it the Florida Lynching law.. That is how it was defined when it was passed by a Republican Floridian legislature, over every Democrats objection….!

    Six: It is quite clear that anyone,who from this point forward argues that his lynching was perfectly legal, and twists and turns facts, or tries to call people arguing otherwise as stupid, is secretly cheering that one of “those people” is dead… They are gloating. They are proud. They are happy, that “Whitey finally got one, and because of Republicans, will get off scot-free for doing it…” They are jumping for joy, that they killed one… especially one who innocently was carrying home a brand new bag of Skittles….

  128. anon40 says:

    Florida’s law was passed so it would be legal to hunt down blacks and kill them… There is no other reason any Republican would even consider passing such a stupid bill. Call it the Florida Lynching law.

    Zimmerman should be arrested & charged w/ murder in my opinion. However, you totally go off the deep end when you say the nonsense you’ve posted above. Idiotic statements like yours earn you the “Lib-t**d” label that conservatives love to toss around.

  129. kavips says:

    Does anyone care what Conservatives think anymore? No. Truth is truth, no matter how Conservatives try to hide it.

  130. MassMom says:

    Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. said: “It may be true that the law cannot make a man love me, but it can keep him from lynching me, and I think that’s pretty important”

    Trayvon was “profiled”. Zimmerman would not have reported a white girl walking the neighborhood. He based “suspicious” on a black, teenaged boy wearing a hoodie with his hands in his pockets. Is that what happens – we get shot by unemployed losers still living with mom and dad, and playing cop based on some ridiculous interpretation of a law? I’m not sure who is worse, Zimmerman or the morons responsible for protecting and serving.

    There’s one thing that speaks loud and clear. Money. Tourists should cancel their trips and stop investing or spending in Florida. Send a clear message that Florida is a dangerous, lawless state until they deal with the real problems.

  131. Bob says:

    First and foremost let me be clear that I think Zimmerman will be tried and convicted of manslaughter.

    I believe that he said “f’in crooks” and not the racial slur some are saying. Listen to the end of that sentence on the audio tape and it sounds like “x” instead of “ns” (everyone knows it started with a c).

    I believe that Zimmerman confronted Trayvon and that Trayvon started fighting him, knocking Zimmerman down. Zimmerman felt threatened and grabbed his gun from his ankle holster and shot Trayvon in the chest (several witnesses said an individual in white was on top – Trayvon had on a grey hoodie and Zimmerman was in red). Trayvon was also shot in the chest so he was not running away, but was likely standing over Zimmerman.

    This will be the self defense claim. I don’t think it holds water as he didn’t fire a warning shot, or tell Trayvon to move away, etc. Not to mention shooting someone who is armed with a bag of skittles cannot be justified. Ultimately this was a senseless killing.

  132. Liberal Elite says:

    @Bob “First and foremost let me be clear that I think Zimmerman will be tried and convicted of manslaughter.”

    I’ll wager that he doesn’t get convicted. This has been so polarized already, that a jury of 12 with zero stupid gun law supporters seems unlikely.

    I also think it highly likely that he won’t live long enough to be tried. How well can he hide? Will he survive in jail?

  133. Rockland says:

    Nothing Political about it… Yeah, right…

    Not a peep about all the Black on Black shootings or the 6 year old shot in the head by the Brothas in Chicago…

    They had better be mindful of railroading an Hispanic…

  134. cassandra m says:

    And this isn’t about black on black shootings, if you hadn’t noticed. This is about whether or not the shooting of one black young man is not just ignored by either law enforcement or the judicial system. As it was well on track for being until enough people got the MSM to notice and report on it.

    You, Rockland, are one of the few people who don’t get what the concern and the anger is about. But then, it would be OK if the system didn’t work to make sure that this kid hasn’t been wronged.

  135. anon40 says:

    “This is about whether or not the shooting of one black young man is not just ignored by either law enforcement or the judicial system. “

    Black on black crime is routinely ignored, under-reported & under-prosecuted right here in Wilmington. I’m white & I’ve witnessed it personally over the last few yrs.

  136. Geezer says:

    “the inherent difference (chasm really) between our half-white, half-Kenyan President and American blacks descended from West African slaves?”

    Yeah, you conservatives are SO sensitive to the intra-group differences among minorities. ROFLMAO.

    As Obama pointed out four years ago when this argument was brought up, he’s treated exactly like any other African-American when he’s trying to hail a cab.

  137. Trayvon Martin was walking through the gated townhouse community on a visit to his father’s fiance’s house. Not sure, but likely he’d never been there before.

    It was raining when he went for a walk to the 711. Seems natural he’d have his hood up and be ‘looking around’.

    Fucking Coons:

    In the early ’70’s at Grove Point Girl Scout camp, I made friends with a fellow counselor from Chestertown, MD. I took a bus from Wilmington for a weekend visit later that summer. Her family seemed so normal and nice –lots of kids in an old victorian on a tree-lined street in town. ‘Us kids’ piled in the station wagon to go to see “Towering Inferno” in a neighboring town.

    But I got the shock of my young life in that car on a back country road in Maryland. The kids around me started shouting ‘coons’ and pointing to the black people in the car behind us. I hadn’t heard the word used that way before. The gist of it seemed to be to ‘git the shotgun ‘n dogs and kill them coons’.

    Jesus f’ing Christ. The evil in these children shook me to the core.

  138. KuhnKat says:

    Try Trayvon should not have beaten George Zimmerman.

    The police played the the recording to Trayvon’s dad and he stated the person screaming was NOT Trayvon.

    Yup, I think both of them would do things differently a second time.

    Anyone find out what had Trayvon so upset he would beat down a stranger?? Wouldn’t it be good to find out?? If he was such an exemplary young man SOMETHING had to have happened recently to not only cause him to beat George but get him suspended from school!!!

    This is what the MORONS in the media should be looking into rather than starting a race war with their lies, half truths, and selective reporting!!!

  139. socialistic ben says:

    hopefully he left some scars.
    There should never have been a fight. clearly Zimmerman decided to start something with someone and encountered a person not willing to say “yes sir no sir”. good for him (trayvon). Zimmerman, being the coward that most gun owner are, did what all us “anti gun wussies” knew he would do. He wanted to win the fight, he wanted to control the little black boy…. so he reached for his gun.
    If he didnt have a gun, he would have been just some idiot stranger who was following a child and paid for it.
    Actually, according to the Take a Life then Ask Questions law… or whatever it is, Trayvon would have been perfectly justified in killing Zimmerman…. but of course we KNOW.. especially with then Chief Bill Lee that there would already be a conviction and death sentence.

  140. AQC says:

    He was suspended from school for tardiness. Hardly a capital crime.

  141. pandora says:

    The point is… any questions and evidence should be determined in a court of law. The outrage surrounding this case is based on the fact that Zimmerman killed an unarmed 17 year old and the police sent him home and closed the case. So when all these Zimmerman supporters show up here with questions they are, inadvertently, making the case that Zimmerman should have been arrested and tried in court.

    With every comment they make, with every new detail they promote, they prove that Zimmerman should have been arrested.

  142. Jason330 says:

    The NRA and ALEC’s Stand Your Ground laws have turned every gun owner in Florida into free wheeling and unaccountable officers of the court. Some people are comfortable with gun nuts having the power of judge, jury and executioner and some aren’t.

    I think if these gun nuts could get out from behind their talking points for a second, they’d see that de-legitimizing the institutions of the criminal justice system is bad for society. I don’t have any hope that they can get out from behind their talking points.

    Simple mindedness is a virtue for these idiots.

  143. puck says:

    We don’t know if there was a fight or if Trayvon touched Zimmerman at all. That is all something to be worked out in court. If he did, Trayvon was most likely fighting for his life.

    If I shot an unarmed kid in an SYG state, I’d make damn sure I had some bumps and scratches on my head by the time the police showed up.

  144. Miscreant says:

    Looking forward to a thorough investigation before I advocate for the arrest, conviction, and sentencing of anyone. One should have been done by the locals. Not sure of the jurisdictional issues, but FBI involvement could be useful. Of course, that’s if the New Black Panthers don’t get to Zimmerman first.

    “However, you totally go off the deep end when you say the nonsense you’ve posted above. Idiotic statements like yours earn you the “Lib-t**d” label that conservatives love to toss around.”

    At first glance, I thought Kavip’s irrational diatribe was parody. It’s profoundly obvious he hasn’t read any credible information from an objective source. It sounds like he based his opinion on the comments section of some liberal rag like the Daily Kos. Obviously, he’s never lived in the deep south. Even if he visited, he wasn’t paying attention. Get away from the major cities where most of the populace aren’t native Floridians, and you’ll find southern Democrats who would make northern Republicans look like flaming liberals. Usually, Kavip’s post are a little more informed, just a little.

  145. Jason330 says:

    “Looking forward to a thorough investigation before I advocate for the arrest, conviction, and sentencing of anyone.” The murder victim didn’t get that consideration. Convicted and sentenced on the spot thanks the SYG gun nuttery.

  146. Jason330 says:

    The thing that I honestly don’t get about gun nuts like Miscreant is that they don’t get how this is bigger than this one case.

    Do we really want a society in which anyone with a gun is deputized to convict and impose the death penalty for any perceived infraction of the law?

    Part of me thinks that there must be a little shred of humanity left among gun nuts – but that part is shrinking by the day.

  147. pandora says:

    But the problem, Mis, is that a thorough investigation wasn’t conducted at the scene. That’s really the point. The Sanford Police didn’t employ standard law enforcement procedures (Drug testing a dead 17 year old, but not the shooter? Sending a narcotics officer to the scene rather than a homicide detective?). In the end, and when combined with the SYG Law, this entire case may hinge on what the Sanford Police did and didn’t do that night.

    As a cop’s kids I can’t wrap my head around the Sanford Police’s sloppy investigation – and I’m using the term investigation loosely. To me, their actions are either deliberate or incompetent. Take your pick, because thorough and competent aren’t options available to the Sanford Police.

  148. Miscreant says:

    The thing that is amusing about panty wetters like Jason is that his outrage is merely political theater to achieve the goals of the left by using the shooting of Trayvon Martin to force gun control on the honest gun owners in America. On its face, this is an unremarkable case, but the potential racial element, injected by the left, has the potential of making this the perfect storm for sheltered milquetoasts like Jason.

  149. Geezer says:

    I don’t think the racial element was “injected” by the “left.” I”m pretty sure black residents of Sanford noticed it without our help.

  150. Jason330 says:

    Either you’ve got your head up your ass, or that was the most intentionally dishonest comment you’ve ever made here. I’m thinking intentionally dishonest because you don;t have a history of having your head up your ass.

    So that’s my last comment on that.

  151. Miscreant says:

    Pandora, I agree that the opportunity for a complete investigation was lost by the incompetence of Sanford PD. Should that be the case, Sanford PD should be held fully accountable. Best case scenario, one would think the feds have the forensic resources to fill in *some* of the blanks.

  152. Miscreant says:

    Agreed, Geezer. Perhaps “injected” was a poor choice of words on my part. ‘Hyped’ may be more accurate.

    “So that’s my last comment on that.”

    Just as well that you cower away. You haven’t said anything intelligent to date.

  153. Miscreant says:

    Speaking of …
    “…the most intentionally dishonest comment… ”

    My money is on this one:

    “… Florida’s law was passed so it would be legal to hunt down blacks and kill them… ”

    Spare me your fake outrage.

  154. Geezer says:

    Mis: I guess I agree, but it depends on who you mean by “the left.” The black community seems to be the outraged party here, with “the left” following the charge, not leading it. But if you consider the black community as part of “the left,” (you’d get an argument from gays about that) then I’d agree they are turning this into a national case.

    I’m assuming you’re white, as am I. I think it’s almost impossible for us to understand the fear cases like this put in the hearts of parents of black male youths.

  155. Miscreant says:

    If you haven’t read it already, here’s the public version of the initial police report.

    http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf

  156. pandora says:

    Well, Mis, that wasn’t that helpful.

  157. Que Pasa says:

    The more information that comes out…the more it looks like a wayward jump to conclusions by many.

  158. Que Pasa says:

    E.g. “He was suspended from school for tardiness. Hardly a capital crime.”

    Nope, Trayvon ‘the Scholar’ got caught with a baggie with residue of Mary Jane.

  159. Jason330 says:

    …so his murder was justified. There is really no where for racist motherfuckers to hide on this. I guess it is refreshing in a way that they are not sugar coating it.

  160. Liberal Elite says:

    @Jason330 “There is really no where for racist motherfuckers to hide on this.”

    They’re not even trying to hide it. Racism is like soiled underwear. People used to try to keep it hidden. No one wanted to see it. But now they’re waving it around so everyone can see their sh*t.

    Simply amazing!

  161. Que Pasa says:

    Nice try, Jay-boy. I was merely pointing out an example of where people have jumped to erroneous postulations about the facts of the case and the two individuals involved.

    So where’s the racism in that?

    In your collective white guilt to show how much you all care…the word ‘racism’ is tossed out so much that its beginning to become meaningless. It’s almost become a parody.

  162. Que Pasa says:

    Here’s Jay-boy in a nutshell:

    ‘Gosh darn it, I’m soooo outraged!!!’

    ‘In the hopes that an African American will see my comment and so I can look cool, I must use misplaced expletives in order to demonstrate just how outraged I am!’

  163. Jason330 says:

    See? No where to hide for the racist motherfuckers.

  164. socialistic ben says:

    The worst part about racists today, is the fact that they wont admit to being racist. They are in denial even though every thing they say is obviously racist to everyone sane. ” They “just point out facts”.
    The first step in getting help is realizing something is wrong with you.

  165. Jason330 says:

    You either think African American teens deserve a death sentence for being in the wrong place at the wrong time or you don’t. It really is that simple.

    Guys like QP don’t feel racists because they honestly think that African American teens deserve a death sentence for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    Why was he there?
    Why was he wearing a hoodie?

    They are all guilty until proven innocent.

  166. pandora says:

    One of the most frightening things I heard during the summer of the 2008 election:

    “If Obama wins I don’t want to hear one more word about racism!”

    Speechless. I was speechless. That had to be one of the dumbest, nastiest comments I ever heard.

  167. Que Pasa says:

    See? Nothing of substance. Only projection and tenuous conjecture. Keep trying, Jay-boy. You’re making a fool of yourself.

    All I did was point out a previously incorrect statement on this blog as an allusion to the hyperventilation and the terroristic threatening (a felony in most states) being done on a wider scale by others. I said nothing about the actual incident as I/we aren’t privy to all the facts. Yes, its sad that a young man was killed, but we do know that certain laws of the State of Florida MAY apply. Thus, at this point, for anyone to make statements of certainty (e.g. ‘Zimmerman is guilty of murder’) is merely bloviating their own personal opinion.

  168. Joe Cass says:

    @QPdoll, Your name is Lee, right? I remember you.

  169. Miscreant says:

    “Well, Mis, that wasn’t that helpful.”

    True, but it’s about as detailed as I would have expected an initial report from the scene to be. I wish I had access to the supplemental reports, and reporting officer’s notes, which is typically the mother lode and can be discoverable in court. I hope you weren’t deterred by all the blacked out fields of information, and scrolled down to the narratives.

    I did pick up some details that most of the mainstream media seems to ignore. There was actually a specified charge listed, and that Zimmerman appeared to have been on his back on the ground at some point. I had already heard about his injuries, but they were only described as generically as possible in the report. Any details would be listed in a supplemental. Back in the day, they were more detailed. These days, the officer tends to only put minimal information because, unfortunately, they act in terms of how incidents may float in court, rather than getting at the truth. Mostly out of fear of litigation.

  170. pandora says:

    I did scroll down. Is there a special class given on writing narratives? They read like they were written by the same person.

  171. jason330 says:

    QP, Do you think African American teens deserve a death sentence for being in the wrong place at the wrong time? It its a simple question. Why all the bitterness, and anger? Is it because you don’t like the answer to the question?

    I feel like I have a new project and I don’t need a new project right now. Put an end to it right here and now if you can.

  172. Miscreant says:

    “Is there a special class given on writing narratives? They read like they were written by the same person.”

    Actually, we spent more time in the academy on report writing than shooting. These guys seem to have it down to an art. I’ve never seen this format. We used a Uniform Crime Report (UCR), which I thought was pretty much universal with law enforcement agencies because fields of information can be extracted for the state and federal database. For our agency, each officer wrote his own report.

    Perhaps, Aoine can chime in and provide more current information.

  173. anon40 says:

    Has anyone read the Orlando Sentinel today?

    A quick snippet:

    With a single punch, Trayvon Martin decked the Neighborhood Watch volunteer who eventually shot and killed the unarmed 17-year-old, then Trayvon climbed on top of George Zimmerman and slammed his head into the sidewalk, leaving him bloody and battered, law-enforcement authorities told the Orlando Sentinel.

    That is the account Zimmerman gave police, and much of it has been corroborated by witnesses, authorities say. There have been no reports that a witness saw the initial punch Zimmerman told police about.

    Zimmerman has not spoken publicly about what happened Feb. 26. But that night, and in later meetings, he described and re-enacted for police what he says took place.

    In his version of events, Zimmerman had turned around and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from behind, the two exchanged words and then Trayvon punched him in the nose, sending him to the ground, and began beating him.

  174. Geezer says:

    I don’t believe a word that comes out of that police department, including this CYA leakage.

  175. pandora says:

    Then why did Zimmerman say that Trayvon was running? Obviously away from him since Zimmerman set off in pursuit.

    Why would he get out of the car and follow Trayvon?

    Sorry, Zimmerman’s story isn’t adding up for me. His words aren’t matching up with his actions.

    Add to that his comments to the dispatcher about these a$$holes always getting away and I’ll show you a man pursuing someone he’s decided to stop. Are we now supposed to believe that Zimmerman strolled up to Trayvon and said, “Excuse me, are you supposed to be here?” Then turned his back to return to his car? Why?

  176. mike4smom says:

    I asked my 17 year old son what he would do if some guy started following him. He told me he would run, he also said if the guy confronted him he would beat the crap out of him. Based on what I have read and the 911 calls I have heard, I think Trayvon probably did what most 17 year old young men would do. It seems, based on what I have heard and read about this case, that Zimmerman was overly aggressive in his pursuit and now a young man is dead. Hopefully there will be further investigation and possibly a trial so we can all have a clearer picture of what happened.

  177. Rockland says:

    I don’t feel any sense of outrage over the dead kid, he physically attacked Zimmerman, and I feel as though the shooting was justified.

    That being said, in my opinion, Zimmerman did the wrong thing by following the kid, and clearly got himself into a situation that he was ill equipped to deal with. He was lucky to get a shot off if he was really on the ground getting his ass beat, as it appears he was. Putting a guy like this (wannabe cop, previous history of instigation, poor composure, previous violent criminal charges) on neighborhood watch was a BAD decision by his community.

    Also, something seems funny to me about the whole “walking back to the car” thing, because that isn’t what Zimmerman actually said. He claimed he had already returned to his vehicle, and then exited again to check the street he was on (in the gated community he patrols regularly…?) and was attacked by Martin at that moment. That doesn’t really pass the smell test, IMO.

  178. pandora says:

    How the hell you reconcile your heartless first sentence with the rest of what you wrote escapes me.

    That said… no matter what happened the difference is the gun – that’s the difference between a death and a fist fight. And I’m still not sure why, Rockland, you are giving the defense excuse to the guy who followed someone in a car and then got out of the car and followed him on foot. Given those basic facts why couldn’t Trayvon have feared for his life… and fought for it?

  179. Joe Cass says:

    @Rockyroad, you are either attempting to be offensive or following your favorite AM shock jock. An original thought would be new to you.
    (redundant)
    @Pandora, aren’t these trolls?

  180. pandora says:

    ‘Tis the (election) season, Joe! ;-)

  181. Jaydensmommy says:

    So a white shirt??? Hmmm but Trayvon had on a “dark hoodie” I’m a lil lost smh

  182. Jason330 says:

    And silence from QP. Shocking. Well as they say in Spanish, “Está abierto” case closed.

  183. Que Pasa says:

    Jay-boy, I have a life, hence the dutiful silence on my part. Apparently you’re on here all day, all night…tippy-tapping away. Must be fun!

    But I digress…

    To answer your rhetorical question; of course no one deserves to die because they were in the wrong place a the wrong time. That wasn’t the point of my post regarding an incorrect reason for Mr. Martin’s 5-day suspension.

    “Comment by AQC on 26 March 2012 at 7:37 am: He was suspended from school for tardiness. Hardly a capital crime”

    To which we all know now it was for the possession of an empty marijuana baggie rather.

    As for any bitterness and anger. HUH?!? Do yourself a favor and re-read your posts (particularly anything regarding Sen. Carper), there you’ll find a veritable cornucopia of 4-letter words belying what can probably be diagnosed as a mild case of emotional schizophrenia. Which would be more cleverly masked if, perhaps, you were able to add a modicum of humor to your posts. An impossibility I’m sure, given your obviously limited intellect and abject hatred embedded in everything you spew. Wait, I got it! Are you a well-kept shut-in?

  184. Liberal Elite says:

    @QP “An impossibility I’m sure, given your obviously limited intellect and abject hatred embedded in everything you spew.”

    Wow… And this is exactly how I see you and your posts. Humorless and hateful stuff from an individual with limited intellectual abilities.

    Hey… I’ll wager that Jason is better educated than you are (as a modest measure of intellect).

  185. Que Pasa says:

    First, please define “better educated”.