Tempers Flaring in Sussex? – UPDATED
We received a tip this evening that there was some sort of physical altercation at County Council the Sussex County GOP offices between Councilman Vance Phillips and Sheriff Jeff Christopher. Georgetown Police were called to the County Council Building by the sheriff. The matter is under investigation by the police and no arrests have been made at this time. Note that during this altercation, one of the people was armed (guess who?).
Phillips and Christopher have been bumping heads since the beginning of the year over the sheriff’s desire to make himself the top lawman in the county, contrary to Delaware law. Phillips is not on-board with the move.
More details as they become available.
wouldnt this have been in the news?
You should probably ask the Cape Gazette or Sussex Countian that question, Phil.
MJ
Since you’ve reported this, you should verify your sources, instead of making up the details as you go.
If you are the one breaking this news, we should not have to call and ask the Cape Gazette anything!!!
Don, unlike you, I vet my sources and got independent confirmation of this from two different people. Since there is an ongoing police investigation, I have been asked to withhold certain details that could jeopardize it.
I know you have a man-crush on the sheriff and his long, hard piece of steel he carries in a holster, but maybe you should just settle down and do your own investigating. A simple phone call can answer any questions you have. That is if you know who to call.
Don Ayotte,
You say MJ is making this up. Do you have proof of that?
Of course he doesn’t, DD. He’s a lazy RWNJ.
So you are saying Don Ayotte is attacking the messenger rather than addressing the issue? How very Republican of him.
SO, we have a guy with a gun and no control over his temper – no wonder he cannot get/hold a job as a cop – he may not be able to pass the psych eval necessary
this is the reason we should NOT ELECT guys with guns!! Nuclear weapons access maybe.. but then again…..
May I point out to Mr. Ayotte the Delaware Constitution:
Article VI:
§ 1. Impeachment power of House:
Section 1. The House of Representatives shall have the sole power of impeaching; but two-thirds of all the members must concur in an impeachment.
Section 2. The Governor and all other civil officers under this State shall be liable to impeachment for treason, bribery, or any high crime or misdemeanor in office. Judgment in such cases shall not extend further than to removal from office, and disqualification to hold any office of honor, trust or profit, under this State; but the party convicted shall, nevertheless, be subject to indictment, trial, judgment and punishment according to law.
any questions?? Mr. Sheriff??
If the Sheriff is convicted, even of a misdemeanor – well then teh super majority in the House can handle the rest of it….
if removed form office, I would assume the Governor would appoint the replacement until the office is electable again.
so, we have armed deputies attending political meetings
sheriff deputies pulling over speeders, which they do NOT have the authority to do
and now this?? is someone going to have to be shot and killed before some action is taken
Hello, FBI?? yes, may I report a “color of law” violation??
I’m fantastic.
The real issue for Don and his fellow travelers is that these people are not professional enough to run a county council meeting without getting sued for it, yet they think they are qualified to tell people how to run the country.
The best cure for this nutjob conservatism it to put some of its practitioners in office and put their tenets into practice. Outside of Medieval America, er, Dixie, the Tea Party Republicans are being rejected mere months after winning office.
Conservatism has flourished because, with the help of talk radio, it told the 10% of America made up of right-wing assholes that they were a majority. OWS could act as a corrective for that, and clowns like those in Sussex County will just speed the day when everyone realizes that not only are those people not a majority, they’re not even normal.
Geezer–pretty sure (and very sad) that more than 10% of Americans are RWNJs/”conservatives”/assholes.
I’m 100% sure I don’t want to live in Sussex county!
Another 20% are conservatives, and 10% beyond that call themselves conservatives but aren’t really. Only that 10% are the fringe group I was referrring to..
Ah, Geezer, you finally came back to Delaware Liberal where you can use profane language and make libelous statements at will. MJ will let you guys do anything inappropriate to smear the competition.
You must feel great to let your foul mouth run its course without restrictions or guidelines.
Don – hello, pot.
Finally came back? I’m here every day.
Smear the “competition”? Do you nutsacks think you’re in a competition with other blogs? That’s rich. Don’t worry, you’re still the #1 unintentional humor site in Delaware.
As for libel, as usual you don’t know what you’re talking about. You’re a borderline illiterate with less brains than a baboon and a temper to match.
Geezer, please tell us what you really think about Don. 🙂
Poor Vance Phillips. He probably never thought that he’d be considered one of the more reasonable Sussex Republicans.
MJ: I wrote that too quickly, and so was unfair to baboons. Baboons aren’t given to paranoid, pants-wetting screeds, or bragging about an English degree and journalism career in ways that testify to the declining value of both, or thinking they’re smarter than they prove themselves to be every time they open their mouths.
Nailed it on the temper, though.
Hey Don. I guess Dan Gaffney is also lying about this. From his Twitter feed (also on Facebook):
Georgetown Mayor Brian Pettyjohn confirms police involvement in incident between Sheriff Jeff Christopher and Councilcman Vance Phillips
The News Journal has also confirmed this story. So, will the people who accused MJ of lying now apologize?
@geezer. Somedays I wqnt to kiss yoi..most days no..but today after reading that about Don..yup
I watched that nut on action more than once…he os given to semi literate screeds woth a temper too. He can abuse humiliate and lie…but month one else can challenge him..
Yep u nailed ot.
He claims he was hit with a pad of paper. I’m actually embarrassed for him. A pad of paper?
And Don Ayotte has never been correct about anything – including the proper use of punctuation.
A pad of paper can be dangerous, Pandora. Haven’t you ever had a paper cut? They’re quite painful.
My advice to anyone having dealings with Ayotte – be sure you’re up to date on your rabies shot because he’s a rabid dog.
Vance misunderstood how to play Rock, Paper, Scissors. Good thing he picked Paper.
Sheriff Christopher should know better than to bring a postit to a pad of paper fight.
Shoulda wacked him with a watermellon:)
Shortly there will be 7 billion people on Earth. That means if you stood them shoulder to shoulder, two people would have to stand next to Don Ayotte
Lawmen are not elected in Delaware. If you want to be a lawman, then apply for a job with a recognized police force. Don’t like Vance, but I give him credit for standing up to the wantabe.
I feel like suing Don Ayotte for libel.
Wgmd website is reporting that Georgetown PD is investigating the incident. They have interviewed the Sherrif who lodged the complaint but had not interviewed Phillips as of the article posting this AM.
The Sherrif claims Vance threw a notebook at him and when the Sherrif went towards Vance, he was held back and kicked in the crotch.
The mayor of Georgetown also said on WGMD this morning that the incident was being investigated by details are still sketchy.
Don may be right, the conspiracy is bigger than we thought. Georgetown Mayor & PD, WGMD and MJ all collaborating. Whoda thunk?
Didn’t Priscilla Rakestraw get pushed once down in Sussexstan at a GOP meeting too?
Vance Phillips assaulting a member of law enforcement? Very interesting and I wonder what are the consequences…
delindy – who was the member of law enforcement? Surely you’re not referring to Christopher, because if you are, you’re wrong. The sheriff is not a law enforcement officer.
So this is the new and more conservative Delaware GOP? Christine O’Donnell and her lawyer suing each other, Sussex County Councilman Vance Phillips and Sheriff Jeff Christopher in a physical altercation, State Party Chairman John Sigler putting the seal of approval on racism, and Dover City Councilman David Anderson using the Holocaust for political laughs.
Delaware Democrats need to invent a word for “way the Hell more than a super majority.”
The good news is Vance Phillips said a prayer before the assault on the sheriff. Something about and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.
What the hell is in the water down there? While I think this story is nuts, I am in love with it.
Pandora, it’s the water in the western part of the county.
From Title 11 of Delaware Code
§ 222. General definitions.
When used in this Criminal Code:
(15) “Law-enforcement officer” includes police officers, the Attorney General and the Attorney General’s deputies, sheriffs and their regular deputies ……..”
So the Sheriff IS a Law-Enforement Officer
§ 612. Assault in the second degree; class D felony.
(a) A person is guilty of assault in the second degree when:
(3) The person intentionally causes physical injury to a law-enforcement officer, a volunteer firefighter, a full-time firefighter, emergency medical technician, paramedic, fire police officer, fire marshal, correctional officer, a sheriff, a deputy sheriff, a code enforcement constable or a code enforcement officer who is acting in the lawful performance of duty. For purposes of this subsection, if a law-enforcement officer is off duty and the nature of the assault is related to that law-enforcement officer’s official position, then it shall fall within the meaning of “official duties” of a law-enforcement officer.
So, If Sheriff Christopher was attending this meeting in an official capacity as the Sheriff of Sussex County, this paper cut could be a felony………WOW!!!
Chuckling Anon nails it: These are the people who think they deserve to run the state of Delaware.
JC – why would the sheriff be attending a meeting at the Sussex County GOP headquarters in an official capacity?
And I believe that Title 10, Chapter 21 supercedes Title 11.
JC – also do some research. Read this – http://www.lexisone.com/lx1/caselaw/freecaselaw?action=OCLGetCaseDetail&format=FULL&sourceID=bcfbc&searchTerm=egjh.WeOa.aadj.ebTQ&searchFlag=y&l1loc=FCLOW;
Then read this – http://attorneygeneral.delaware.gov/office/opinions/2000/00ib16.htm.
Then take your teabag out of our cups.
MJ…who knows? Is an elected official ever “off duty”..if they were discussing the duties of the Sheriff then I’m sure it would be considered job related.
And how does one part of the code supercede another? If one supercedes the other, then when talking about law enforcement I would submit that the CRIMINAL CODE, which is Title 11 would take precedence.
Nonetheless, look at Title 10 Chapter 21 …
10 Del Code § 2103. Extra deputies in emergency; compensation.
In case an emergency makes it necessary for a sheriff to employ temporarily a greater number of deputies than provided in § 2102 of this title, for the preservation of peace and good order, the sheriff may be reimbursed by the Levy Court or County Council of his or her county for sums actually expended for the services of such deputies, upon rendering a detailed sworn statement of the occasion for the employment, the term thereof, and the amount paid to each deputy, and the names of such deputies.
If the Sheriff has no law enforcement authority as you contend, then why is the county responsible for paying any extra depities that may be needed in an emergency to preserve peace and good order. The preservation of peace and good order is clearly a law enforcement role…
10 Del Code § 2114. Fish and Wildlife Agent.
The sheriff ex officio shall be a Fish and Wildlife Agent.
If the Sheriff is a Fish and Wildlife Agent, and a Fish and Wildlfe Agent is a police officer (11 Del C 1911) then isnt there an argument that the Sheriff is a police officer….(now I don’t believe that he is, just making the point that Title 10 doesn’t preclude any law enforcement duties of the Sheriff)
JC (and this could be Jeff Christopher for all we know), it’s typical of you RWNJ teajadis to cherry-pick the parts of the law and the Constitution to justify your madness. It was settled 11 years ago that the sheriff is not a cop, not a law enforcement officer and has no police powers.
Again, why does Christopher wear his gun to GOP county meetings? It doesn’t matter whether he’s an elected official or not. If you’re going to a meeting for political purposes, you’re not “on the job,” no matter what they were discussing.
Interesting links MJ, but the former Sheriff’s lawsuit was dismissed not on any material facts, but that the Court of Chancery lacked the jurisdition to rule on the case…no decision was made to the validity of his claims because Chancery Court rules on matters of equity, not matters of law.
The AG opinion is fine, the Sheriff isn’t a police officer, so what? Doesnt mean he has no law enforcement power.
MJ…it was settled 11 years ago that he wasnt a police officer and couldn’t have lights on the cars…NOTHING regarding the powers of the office was discussed in that opinion. In fact, an earlier AG opinion in 1995 or 1995 said that the Sheriffs retain all power they had under common law, unless removed by statute. His enforcement power has not been removed.
Sure it does, JC. Using your (il)logic, if police officers have law enforcement powers, and the sheriff is not a police officer, therefore, the sheriff does not have law enforcement powers. See how easy that was.
Now once again, take your teabag and stick it in someone else’s cup.
MJ- Christopher probably wears his gun to bed in some kind of “special”holster.
He’s a typical gun fetishist.A REAL freak.Like ALL those RWNJ’s.
An excerpt from the AG’s opinion in 2000….
“The fact that the sheriff, and persons like constables, parole officers, correctional officers and the Attorney General and her Deputy Attorneys General, may have certain law enforcement authority does not make them police officers as defined by Delaware law”
Right there…although they are not police officers, they still have law enforcement powers.
And regarding your analogy….you are comparing apples to oranges. You are utilizing a descripotion of the position and the position itself for comparision. That would be akin to saying the Governor is an elected official, the Sheriff is not the Governor, so the Sheriff isn’t an elected official.
And you’re not, JC? And there operative word there is “CERTAIN.” These “CERTAIN” LEO duties are related to them serving papers for the court. That’s it. That’s why they have to call DSP or the local PD to arrest someone – they cannot do it. And it also reads “MAY.” Not “SHALL.” Big difference in the law, but you wouldn’t know that or even admit to it because it doesn’t serve your purpose. And the sheriff and his deputies no longer have constable certification because Christopher allowed it to lapse (in hopes of being made super cop).
Now, back to the original story. Jeff and Vance had a spat at Sussex GOP HQ………….
Strike three, JC. You’re out!
The great experiment is over. Delaware conservatives should be in jail, not elected office.
It’s surprising that anyone cares enough about this story enough to comment on it.
MJ…how about this…..From the book “The Delaware Citizen: A Guide to Active Citizenship in the First State”
From the chapter on the Administration of Justice
“Arrests throughout the state are made by police officers, deputy sheriffs and constables.”
You are mistaking the concept that just because Sheriffs arent police officers, that they do not have arrest power. Corrections Officers and Parole Officers arent police officers, yet they have arrest powers. Fire Police, aren’t police officers as defined in Title 11, but they too have arrest powers.
You are right, they have certain law enforcement powers. Those that are related to keeping the peace. Generally, this means criminal matters,where arrest power is granted to peace officers, not solely police officers.
JC – what’s the copyright date on that “book?” 1892?
You’re the one who’s confused and mistaken. The sheriff is not a LEO, no matter how badly you spin and twist your (il)logic.
Now, go back to your teabagging and leave the adults alone to carry on an adult conversation.
And again, JC, this thread is about Jeff Christopher and Vance Phillips getting into a dust-up. If you want to comment on the supposed police powers of our modern day Barney Fife, take it over to the Open Thread.
Oh, nevermind, JC. Found the book – copyright 1967.
I think the judge is going to throw the book at Vance.
@JC – look you t-bagging fool – where the Sheriff is listed as a LEOis only for the purposes of THAT SECTION – which was put in there to allow the Sheriff to use DELJIS – but hey the GA can yant that too – keep it up asshole – you r so buried already.
here is the code in its ENTIREITY – which u failed to put in – you know – the part about “that are graduates of a Delaware Police Academy which is accredited/authorized by the Council on Police Training,” THAT is the seminal issue –
and Deputy dog and his bitches have not Graduated except one or two and if they r not working as Police Officers they loose the COPT cert and Lineweaver and Torres r damm close to it –
do you really thing we are that stupid, you thick fcuking idiot??
“(15) “Law-enforcement officer” includes police officers, the Attorney General and the Attorney General’s deputies, sheriffs and their regular deputies agents of the State Division of Alcohol and Tobacco Enforcement, correctional officers, state fire marshals, municipal fire marshals that are graduates of a Delaware Police Academy which is accredited/authorized by the Council on Police Training, sworn members of the City of Wilmington Fire Department who have graduated from a Delaware Police Academy which is authorized/accredited by the Council on Police Training, environmental protection officers, enforcement agents of the Department of Natural Resources and Environmental Control, and constables. ”
You stupid t-baggers really need a set of balls – rubbed right across your faces….maybe “Schweddy Balls” will get you to wake up. I am sooooo sick of you idiots – total hypocrites, total loosers and total egomaniacs. Cannot get out of your own way.
sorry for the bad grammar – I am so fed the fcuk up with these jerk-offs
someone in Sussex is going to be hurt or killed over this bickering
either whip the dicks out and measure them, decide who is bigger and move on OR grow up, realize you are NOT cops and do ur damm job
8 years of asshole Rethuglican Bob Read – lawsuits, injunctions, in-fighting etc
4 yrs of Democrat Eric Swanson – job done quietly, no buulshit, income increases, no controversy, no conflict no embarrassing bullshit
now, and ONE< ONE damm year with another Rethuglican sheriff, little man, little dick, big ego. fights in county council meeting, armed deuties in a political meeting (who paid their salaries, in uniform they r representing the county) and now this embarassment.
anyone see a pattern here??? – get the Rethuglican out
Occupy Sussex
I’m just stunned by this story. The sheriff, who wants to carry a gun and do law enforcement, called police because Phillips threw a pad of paper at him? Oy.
You tell ’em, Aoine.
Hey, JC. I thought I’d see you in yoga tonight since you’ve been twisting yourself around so much today to get your (false) point across.
NJ’s Dan Shortridge is reporting that Christopher claims his eye was scratched and he was injured in the groin. That’s really not funny.
he said his retina is scratched – last time I checked the retina is BEHIND the eyeball
and he has no balls – so what was injured
he going to show chief Topping the swelling in his non-existant balls??
sue Vance for “loss of consortium” oh plz….
if u knew him u would be laughing…
UI – St. Bodie Girl is the source of the supposed kick in the groin and stomach. Take that for what it’s worth since St. Bodie Girl is so far up Christopher’s ass that Christopher is tasting Brylcreem.
i thought he was not there????
Let’s not forget Vance and Urkle created Bodie to drive out primary votes for Urkle. Bodie’s going to have to lace up the white high heels tight on this one… Let’s also not forget, Vance was Urkle’s campaign manager and Urkle/Vance are the architects for what is currently going on in Sussex County. Fine job!
Eric Bodenweiser showed what a fool he is this morning by suggesting, live on WGMD, that Vance Phillips bribe sheriff Christopher with police squad cars in order for the charges to “go away”.
Oh yes – and the Sheriff refuses to present himslef physically to GPD – they cannot determine injuries….
sound more fishy every day – u know they need take picture of the injuries for court – if there are any – cannot photograh a scratched retina with their cameras – need a optomologist report for that – and the retina, sheriff Jeff is BEHIND your eyeball!
its gone to the AG – but if you have a non-cooperating witness – well, the charges go away, usually – my personal knowledege of this sheriff is that he is a lying sack of shit with no morals or scruples
Its looking more and more like the sheriff manufactured this crises to pull a fast one (get what he wants in exchange for dropping charges) and now Bodie, who does NOT have the brains he was born with – has just ruined his chances,,,by outing the whole scheme.
Hope Vance, or anyone else know knows better than to ever meet with this fool.
the 3 stooges were not quite THIS funny!
Aione…you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about…you don’t get defined as a LEO simply to have access to DELJIS…employees at DMV and all the courts have DELJIS access. They’re not listed as LEOs.
And the section you quote about the police academy, is defining police officers. NEWS FLASH: I’m not trying to say the Sherif is a police officer.
But you don’t have to be a police officer to have enforcement authority.
And really, is that all you libs can do is use belittling and derogatory terms or profanity in an attempt to get your point across.
Oh, and Aione, maybe the reason Swanson got defeated is that he didn’t make enough waves. Its obvious from elections in Sussex, and even the most recent one in NCCo, that the people want the Sheriff to be a cop (not the job of Sheriff, but the actual person who occupies the office)
But to redirect this back to the main topic…..it will be interesting to see if the DOJ in Sussex attempts to prosecute this. Like I said in my original post on the topic…this could be a felony case depending on whether or not the Sheriff was considered to be acting in his official capacity as Sheriff….Either way, dumb move on the part of Phillips
And if the Sheriff was using his official title or position while engaged in political activity (a political party meeting obviously would be a political activity) it is either a legal or ethical violation of his office. While the focus is on the physical altercation, I am more concerned about an elected official, on duty and operating in an official capacity, performing political activities, out of sight of the public and in what is likely a violation of open meeting laws if he was, as someone said, “negotiating with Vance.” That reeks of cronyism and is central to my belief that law enforcement is best left to professionals rather than to those who are beholden to a certain party, a party apparatchik, or a select segment of society.
Interesting point Dave. I see both sides of the issue. However, elected officials are sort of “on duty” all the time aren’t they? Is Governor Markell acting in his official capacity when he meets with Rep Gilligan or Schwartzkopf to discuss legislative matters? Of course he is. The Sheriff meeting with members of Council is little different. As far as a separation of powers issue goes, the Sheriff would be considered executive , the council legislative. It would make sense that there would be meetings, both formal and informal between them. That being said, I’m sure that the intent if the law regarding assault on law enforcement officers was to enhance the penalty against an office that was engaged in LE duties at the time. However, the Sheriff is the head of the agency, like a Chief of Police, so administrative duties are as much, or more, a part of their official duties.
… out of sight of the public and in what is likely a violation of open meeting laws if he was, as someone said, “negotiating with Vance.”
You, sir, are a moron.
Delaware’s Freedom of Information Act applies to public bodies, such as city councils and commissions, county councils, planning commissions and advisory boards. If a quorum of any one of those bodies gets together to discuss public business, it’s a meeting.
Open meetings laws do NOT, in any state in this nation, apply to two elected officials from different branches of government to discuss public business.
If Phillips had been meeting with Christopher and two other county council members, it would have been a violation of FOIA. But not otherwise.
well just curious – I mean dumb – I never said one is defined as an LEO because they have access to DELJIS – its the other way around – the have access to DELJIS and r defined that way in the statute to give them said access
see I know the person who wrote that part of the law – helps to havee that kind ofinsight…do you have it?? obviously not
I also never said the Sheriff is a police officer – he is not nor has he police powers. that said, he is a narrowly defind law enforcement officer, But this clown, allowed the constable cert to expire so thereby loses a ot he could have done – no one seems to be sure if he can even arrest or detain anyone due tot eh certs expiring.
Trinidad Navarro WAS an cop, Eric Swanson WAS a cop, they also have honor and truth and ethics, something bonehead Christopher does not have and never had… Just coz they were cops does not mean the voter wsnt the sheriffs office doing the work of cops – that is quite a stretch – even for a twister like u.
an listen sunshine – YOU mentione title 11 section 22 – the cherry piked it to cerve you lying agenda – I just put the whole section out there so that people could see what you were doing
dont like profanity go to that other blog that bans it – course they would ban you too – for falsehoods… good luck with that
this could be an imeachement case if the Sheriff doesnt wise up too – try article VI of the DE COnstitution section 2
oh, and do get up earlier if you want to try to beat me at this game – I know far more than you and have been at it far longer….this an area I am VERY familiar and comfortable with – i dont have to cherry pick select phrases – because Im not proving the negative… I have the law, the code, the COPT and the GA on my side – who you got..the extreme t-baggers in Sussex that r burning down their own house, threaten and drive out their own party members and rant and rave and lie and scream like toddlers
yeah – you picked some winners….
SO if the sheriff was in a private meeting with Phillips, then he was off duty??
so was he driving a county vehicle – he was in uniform? with his gun
hmmm, see Police officers are more or less on duty always much like firefighters, but there do NOT have a duty to act,as many believe. but most do.
but the sheriff is NOT a police officer, he has no current cert to arrest and is a gloirfied process server. SO, if he was not serving papers, he was not acting in his official capacity. it was not a council meeting. it sounds more like two individual trying to work out a compromise having bad blood between them.
he was also not administering his office – the county already gave hom most of the monies in his budget request, he was not requesting more funds for next year… all of the proceeding would be official things an administrator would do. But he was not doing any of them
so, he is not always on duty, he is not a cop…so why then is he and TWO deputies, two county employees, in uniform, at a political meeting pushing a political agenda?? the Sheriff may be able to do that as an elected official but it is outside every ethical norm for him to be there in uniform WITH HIS SIDE ARM. Detectives dont even testify in court with their guns on, it is considered prejudicial…and the other to – they r cunty employees they are specifically prohibited form volunteering their time (see FLSA) – so we, the taxpayers r paying county employees to attendpolitical meetings now – and he says he needs more deputies to clear backlogs?? does not wash – does not pass the sniff test
are they using a county car and county gas – if they get in to an accident going to or returning from the meeitng does the county cover them – remember they r not cops… but in uniform they are representing the county so MUST be paid to do so. They r not elected, they are not exempt employees, they r hourly rate and subject to the same HR rules as any other employee
again -u need to get up early to best this little liberal..
you are full of shit – I just like taking u down a peg or two – because you think you are so right and know so much – newsflash – there is always someone out there better than you.
and u r wrong about the courts – Civil clerks have no access to DELJIS – at all!! criminal clerks do
and there are various level of access to DELJIS – different folks have different levels, child support enforcement, criminal clerks, family court clerks, cops , DMV and Deputy Sheriffs and that is really only to run Rule 9’s – all have different levels
the Sheriffs level is less than a Police Officer,way less
good night! remember get up early and learn some more.
Comment by anon on 28 October 2011 at 9:51 pm: “You, sir, are a moron”
A double insult – calling me sir!
My point was and remains that a meeting of two public officials discussing county business (and perhaps coming to an agreement/decision) at the headquarters of a political party is unethical. That it does not technically violate the Open Meetings code is beside the point.
Finally, the fact that you feel the need to include a perjorative term in your correction either is a reflection on your character or upbringing. While others would counter with another perjorative term, to me it simply demonstrates a lack of class.
I’m with Dave. This private meeting is unethical.
And where is Urquhart? Shouldn’t he be issuing some sort of statement?
Sussex GOPers must be pining for the calm, organized days of Ron Sams. Most of us aren’t surprised. We told you what you could expect from the Tea Party. Have fun dealing with Bodie, Ayotte, and co.
“Open meetings laws do NOT, in any state in this nation, apply to two elected officials from different branches of government to discuss public business.” – anon
No, you are the moron. The Colorado Sunshine Law, enacted after the Watergate scandal, specifically prohibits any two elected officials, no matter if they are from different branches of government, from getting together to discuss the public’s business without first advertising the meeting’s location and agenda and making the meeting open to the public. I know because I sat in on many GOP legislative caucuses while I was interning for Gov. Dick Lamm during the 1975 General Assembly session.
Dave wrote: “My point was and remains that a meeting of two public officials discussing county business (and perhaps coming to an agreement/decision) at the headquarters of a political party is unethical.”
It happens ALL THE TIME, just not at the headquarters of a political party. When the governor meets with a legislator to discuss state business, should that meeting be open to the public? When a legislator meets with a county councilman to discuss public business, should that be open?
MJ wrote: “The Colorado Sunshine Law, enacted after the Watergate scandal, specifically prohibits any two elected officials, no matter if they are from different branches of government, from getting together to discuss the public’s business without first advertising the meeting’s location and agenda and making the meeting open to the public.”
MJ,
Respectfully, I think your memory may be wrong, or else the law has changed. There’s a great resource on open meetings laws published by the Reporters Commitee for the Freedom of the Press, and its section on Colorado indicates nothing of the sort. (http://www.rcfp.org/ogg/index.php?op=browse&state=CO) The guide defines public body as “as any board, committee, commission, or other advisory, policy-making, rule-making, decision-making, or formally constituted body of any state agency or authority, as well as to the general assembly.” So if a legislator and a county councilman are appointed to an advisory commission, they would be subject to the law. But not otherwise.
See the example I included in my response to Dave above. Such a requirement would bring government to a screeching halt.
You won’t find a more fervent supporter of open records and open meetings than me. But Dave and Pandora’s incredibly naive, simplistic point of view would put a halt to any negotiations between Markell and legislators over any issue of public importance, or between any legislators, or between legislators and municipal/county officials, or between Markell and municipal/county officials … see how it works? That is ridiculous, and to say it is unethical, I still maintain, is utterly moronic.
Perhaps El Som could explain from his time working with the General Assembly just how this would hamstring government work getting done.
Anon – perhaps you need to do some research into Colorado case law on how the Sunshine Law has been interpreted by the courts. Since I worked under the law and know its application (being a Coloradan, I probably have more hands-on experience with this than you do), I stand by what I wrote.
Don’t you just love how those opposed to Open Government always fall back on that old canard that opening up government would hamstring it?
MJ: It’s a simple question, really. Should a meeting between Governor Markell and Pete Schwartzkopf be open to the public?
You cited your memory from 1975. I cited an authoritative source. Can you do the same?
YES!!! Especially if they are discussing legislation.
And I cite from practical hands-on experience and my present-day dealings with members of the Colorado legislature. Can you do the same?
It was not just the meeting. It was the venue. If they were have a drink at Que Pasa or a shake at Dairy Queen, it would have been in a public place. The meeting was held at the GOP HQ, by Republicans with no other political party present. If Deaver had been at the meeting, I would have considered the venue one of convenience. But I am hard pressed to consider this anything but a meeting to discuss and decide county business. If this incident had not happened and Vance came out in favor of making the Sheriff an LEO, it would look exactly like what it is – a back room deal. That others cannot see that demonstrates what is wrong with our political system.
Alone…would you not agree that the standard duties of a sheriff are similar to that of a constable?
If you are unsure, below is an excerpt from a job posting for a constable in the state of Delaware.
ESSENTIAL FUNCTIONS
Essential functions are fundamental, core functions common to all positions in the class series and are not intended to be an exhaustive list of all job duties for any one position in the class. Since class specifications are descriptive and not restrictive, incumbents can complete job duties of similar kind not specifically listed here.
Serves subpoenas, writes summonses and other legal documents on defendants, their attorneys or other legally recognized representatives in an assigned jurisdiction; also, executes warrants such as capias, contempt of court and truancy.
Makes levies on personal property against which a judgment has been obtained; appraises real or personal property; posts notices for constable sales; acts as auctioneer and sells property levied upon to satisfy a judgment.
Serves court orders directing evictions or seizure of property; takes inventory of goods removed; provides security to all parties involved.
Performs investigations to locate defendants who have moved or are attempting to evade service by contacting/questioning neighbors, managers of apartment buildings, store owners, police agencies, and local post offices.
Assists judges in maintaining law and order in the court and in waiting areas.
Contacts by mail and telephone defendants, plaintiffs, their attorneys and others on matters affecting the service and execution of legal documents.
Maintains log books and records of activities.
Makes bank deposits; delivers and retrieves court documents to and from other courts, stat offices, businesses, post offices etc.
May transport prisoners to penal institutions within the state and/or other courts as directed by the court.
Sounds about right, don’t you think?
MJ: The law in Delaware is not the same as the law in Colorado. What you describe is not illegal here.
If Sussex County ever agrees to give the sheriff police responsibilities (LOL, not happening) it should be carved in stone that Jeff Christopher can never be sheriff.
Geezer, totally understand that. However, Mr. Know-it-all (NOT) made a blanket statement about all of the states.
Oh , Aione, you made the insinuation that the only reason sheriffs were made LEOs under Del Code was so they could have DELJIS access. I was merely making the point that your argument doesn’t hold water because there are many officials that have DELJIS access that aren’t legally defined as LEOs.
Sure, the level of access is different, just as it is for Corrections Offiicers, Probation Officers and Constables.
So what?
Aione…you make the claim that the sheriff has no arrest authority. Do you even know who has arrest authority in Delaware?
Finally, you have no idea about my background or how much research I have done in this area to make any statement about how much more that you know about this.
You hang your hat on one AG opinion regarding emergency equipment on Sheriffs vehicles. While some may argue that the Sheriff is a police officer, I am not. I believe the law is clear on that issue. However, the Sheriff does have arrest authority, he is a law enforcement officer and is on-duty 24 hours a day 7 days a week.
JC – you’re wrong and you know it. Christopher is not a LEO. He has no arrest powers, especially since he allowed the constable certification for his entire department (including him) to expire. He’s a glorified rent-a-cop who is a loose cannon with a gun. His job is to serve papers and that’s what he needs to concentrate on doing. If he can’t, he should resign and go back to Ridgely, MD so he can ride around in a cop car and play cops and robbers with St. Bodie Girl and the other dwarfs.
MJ….I know it’s from Wikipedia, but I think it illustrates perfectly the situation.
“The first Constitution of Delaware in 1776 made the sheriff the conservator of the peace within the three counties of the state, New Castle, Kent, and Sussex. The sheriff was, and still is, chosen by the citizens of each county at the general elections to serve a four year term. The sheriff was to preserve the peace of the county and arrested all persons committing riot, murder, theft, or breach of the peace and carried them before a justice of the peace………….Today the office of the sheriff in Delaware holds a position of less importance than in the past. Responsibilities are now limited by tradition, not by law, to include processing orders of the court system; summoning inquests, jurors, and witnesses for the courts; conducting execution sales against personal and real estate property……….As a rule, though allowed by the State Constitution, the County Sheriffs and their deputies do not engage in typical law enforcement, they provide enforcement services for the courts. “
how nice of you to put in dots…..
no run along to the state archives and look at ALL the jobs the Sheriff has had since 1776
one of them was Mortician/Medical Examiner
so the tax payers will be buying herses now?? LOL
I insinuate nothing – YOU on the other hand try to extrapolate much and fall pretty flat. i never mentioned the AG opinion AT ALL.
But that you cring it up…. it is an opinion and a valid one.
as far as Constables: they are for JP court ONLY and ONLY serve JP court:
I NEVER saw this: writes summonses and other legal documents on defendants, their attorneys or other legally recognized representatives in an assigned jurisdiction
the clerks do the writing, not ever the Constables. They serve and deliver
Assists judges in maintaining law and order in the court and in waiting areas – this also does not happen anymore – they are out serving papers all day – in JP it is the Court Sercurity Officer – A SEPERATE entity that does this… or the Bailiffs in CCP and Superior CT.
May transport prisoners to penal institutions within the state and/or other courts as directed by the court
Nope, dont do this either anymore
so to answer your question about sounding about right – do sorry its wrong.
but what your MO is, is to sprinkle a little truth in amongst the lies, but let te lies lead – well that dont fly here.
I really dont knoe where you got this job posting but its really old and you must not have been around for the past couple of years
the Sheriff does quasi-similar stuff for CCP and Superior – they do NOT transport prisioners and have not for many years.
and yes..I absolutely do know who can arrest
Here’s a link to the job posting.
http://www.jobaps.com/DE/sup/BulPreview.asp?R1=020911&R2=MBBZ01&R3=21300
Notice…it’s from 2011
Btw…I think “writes” is a typo….I believe it’s supposed to be “writs”. Does that make more sense?
So then, enlighten me…..who can make arrests?
Oh, and regarding the transport of prisoners….it says “at the direction of the court”. It doesn’t mean all the time, it’s on an as needed basis. Given that a AG opinion in 1995 or 1996 said that the transportation of state prisoners is a ministerial duty that is a part of the responsibility of the Sheriff…..i’m certain that regardless of how frequently it happens or is needed, it is still a responsibility of the office.
look asshole – im tried of you frankly – you are too dumb to be educated.
if you are stupid enough to think/beleieve that all court direction and orders are carried out as they are currently written into law u r a bigger idiot than I thought
the court has not been discreet that way with the sheriff in Sussex for MANY years. and you damm well know it – why dont YOU tell us all WHEN the last time the Sussex Sheriff transported a prisoner “at the discretion of the court’?. I’ll bet you cannot, you dont have access to those records. and you are reliying on an AG opinion that is at best 15 years old>???LOLOL
it is obvious that you THINK you can read and interpert code and law
problem is – you have NO comprehension of the realities in the actual world and how it works, day in and out.
and seeing as you have no PRACTICAL knowledge, I am not about to educate you – so, continue reading your postings and code and baloney and thinking that is the way the real world works
people who actually function in the real world KNOW what happens and peopel like you are just soomething for us to laugh at. I deal with clowns like you most of the time. I know your kind and you will keep pouding away coz you think the more you say it the more it will make it true
sorry charlie.
And also a constable must have the below –
“As a condition at accepting employment, the person selected for this position must successfully complete a 40 Hour training program in firearms and also training in handcuffs, mace, baton and wand approved by the State of Delaware Council on Police Training. Possession of a State of Delaware Council on Police Training Certificate satisfies this requirement”
the sheriff CANNOT get COPT certification, and precluded no academy
the constable and the sheriff are very distinct!!
sorry charlie
Wow…Aione..is that the best you got? “sorry Charlie”. Lol
As is often the case with liberals, when you cannot win an argument with articulable facts, you turn to bashing your adversary..
You make claims that I have no practical knowledge, insinuate that I cannot read nor interpret code, for all you know I could be a judge, a trooper, a law clerk or a lawyer. You have no idea what my background is and have not been able to refute one single fact that I have put out there. You laugh at a citation of an AG opinion that is 15 years old, yet the one that you cling to is 11 years old.
The fact of the matter is, you have based your opinion of the duties of the Sheriff on a narrow scope of what they traditionally have done in recent history rather than the much broader scope of what is LEGAL. I’ll attempt to illustrate a little further. Fish and Wildlife agents are police officers under Delaware law. They have the same authority as a Trooper to make arrests anywhere in the State. However, their primary responsibility is enforcing the fishing, boating and hunting laws of the state. You don’t see them setting up DUI checkpoints or doing undercover drug buys in Coverdale. Even though, legally, they have the authority to do so. It is not dissimilar with the Sheriff, although his primary responsibility is to execute process and conduct sales, legally he has arrest powers for breaches of the peace. Furthermore, case law out of PA (Commonwealth v. Leet) would lead one to the conclusion that enforcement of traffic laws as well would be valid.
Aione …..don’t worry about educating me, you need to worry more about yourself.
Aione, the sheriff and the constable a both exempted from the academy in the very same section of Del Code.
b. For purposes of this chapter this term shall not include the following:
1. A sheriff, regular deputy sheriff or constable;
So what point are you trying to make?
The point is, curious George, that no matter how much you cherry pick your cites, no matter how much you twist and turn and pretzel your (il)logic, the sheriff is not a law enforcement officer, does not have arrest powers, and is not a cop.
You’ve been served!
Curious George …ha ha.. I like it.
But it appeared to me the Aione was attempting to make the point that Constables may possess a COPT certificate, as such, was a distinguishing characteristic from the duties of a constable and a sheriff. I was just seeking clarification since he/she knows SO much more than me.
As far as your post…he is a LEO, it’s indisputable. Arrest power, again I’ll ask, who has arrest power under Delaware law? A cop, not trying to say he is, that would require a legislative change.
County mounties have their places, such as in Fairfax County, VA with well over 1 million people. Here in Sussex, we have qualified professionals in the DSP. I, for one, do not desire politicized law enforcement carrying out the wishes of those to whom they are beholdened for their election and hence, their paycheck. Equal protection under the law should not mean that one has to belong to a specific party. While I do not know Phillips from Adam,his refusal to travel along on the slippery slope to a county police force gets him some points in my book.
It’s indisputable? Why, because you’re teabag mind says so? Huge fail buddy.
Nope…because Delaware Code says so….as has been repeated ad nauseum.
No it doesn’t. You’ve misread/misinterpreted the Code to suit your needs. As is typical of your ilk, you pick certain things to prove your points, but you leave out everything else which clarifies what the Code actually says and means.
Now, just STFU and go play somewhere else.
So then tell me, how would you clarify something that is the definition of law enforcement officer for the criminal code. The only place I’m aware of that defines LEO where the Sheriff is NOT INCLUDED is regarding coverage by the LEOBOR. Which is obviously because of the political nature of the Sheriffs office rather than any authority. In fact, The definition of law enforcement officer in the “blue alert” portion of Delaware code, which deals with the apprehension of persons suspected of killing a LEO, includes “sheriffs and thier regular deputies”. I mention this because it just went into effect in January so it’s as recent a definition as one could ask for.
Dave,
I’m intrigued by this “slippery slope” you mention. While I agree that incrementalism is a problem we have in government.. I would submit that the “slippery slope ” we slid down was contracting with the state for police protection. What started as just a few officers is now upwards of 30. Now, I’m not saying that the DSP doesnt do a fine job. I just think that we pay taxes to the state for them. If the county wants to be in the policing business, then start thier own, or get creative with local PDs and task forces. Otherwise don’t send our county taxes to Dover.
That being said, if the people in Sussex have elected a Sheriff based on a platform of providing more service, is it really a slippery slope if it’s the direction the taxpayers want to go?
“But it appeared to me the Aione was attempting to make the point that ”
SEE HOW THE TROLL WRITES MJ?
lets not feed it anymore and see if it goes away – i dont care what is does for an ocupation but have learned enought from reading these posts that it has no pratical knowledge of this specific world
writes like jon moesely actually – twisting and whinging.. words like insinuates, attempts, appears,claims..like they have some legal training, but is definately NOT law enforcement as they have no practical knowledge of how it all functions.
but I have in fact refuted several things that Curious George said,
yet the troll denies it… this troll, like most, is an energy sucker.
and citing caselaw out of PA (a commonwealth) whose structure and constitution is soooooo different from a state, is so far out of line with delaware, is rediculous!
“So what point are you trying to make?” the Troll asks – well thats kinda up tp u to figure out
The sheriff cannot:
1.attend the academy
2. take training clases at the academy (see minutes from May COPT meeting)
without this – he has no police powers in Delaware. Its pretty simple if you actually work in the system instead of being outside it like you are and just reading code
you actually had to go look up title 11 chapter 84 to get your little quote..too funny
too bad you dont know it off the top of your head – which tells me you are in here trolling and fishing for information to use later to assist the sheriff to get powers – trying to do oppostition research – see what the arguments are against the sheriff, then negate them one by one
how about this: the tax paying citizens of sussex county do not want it.
MJ – either block it or we ignore it
MJ – dont respond – to the troll – but for MJ and Dave:
and the LEOBOR is the law Enforcement Officers Bill of rights
and firefighters are also included in the new legislation and they certainly dont have arrest powers unless they are city of wilmington Fire marshalls OR state fire Marshalls that have graduated the academy.
more and more clear this is an apologist for the sheriff and worming their way into the anit-sheriff arguments and incrementally trying to take them apart.
TROLL – this sheriff won on a down ticket effect from the t-baggers supporting O’Donnell. the crazies voted straight anti-incumbancy and straight R ticket – you well know, most voters dont know or care about the platform – his winning was not a referumdum on more services…we all know that
but also remember – Jeff Christopher promised to professionalize the office
think he has done a good job of that?? especially recently? his OWN PARTY voted down Bodie’s referundum 2-1!! his OWN party!
he’s a laughing-stock, of the county and the state – read TNJ comments section
and please go pack sand – you are way out classed and out thought in here – if someone as simple as me can see thru you – anyone can
We have all probably commented enough, but my last word on the topic (at least for this go around) is that a Sheriff with LEO status is a solution in search of a problem. My taxes are better spent on professional law enforcement which including equipment, training, etc. works out to be approx. $35,700 per officer with the DSP. A bargain, which I hope the DSP does not discover. I don’t care where I send my taxes as long as I get the intended services. If sending them to Dover is efficient and effective who cares? What is this an argument for home rule? county rights?
The statistics do not identify problems that suggest we need additional resources in this county and political platforms are not a valid basis for making decisions regarding how we spend our tax money.
@Dave – agreed
I hear that a State News reporter is calling around asking about Vance and a young lady. I can’t wait to read that story!
Dave is probably right. If there’s no big problem with the current set up why fund another police agency that’s bound to grow into something unintended. Politics is not the place for people who can’t take no for an answer.
Vance always gave me creepy vibes. I had suspicions he was repressing gay tendencies, but a proclivity for 17 year old girls might be what I was picking up…
JustCurious: You seem to know enough to realize that this quixotic quest — as Dave points out, a solution in search of a problem — will never get past the blockade represented by State Police power. All the rest of this is basically conservative masturbatory power fantasy.
Watch it, people. Even if you hate Vance, there are other people who can be hurt out there by the rumors you’re spreading.
If you have proof, come forward. Otherwise, shaddup.
“masturbatory power fantasy”
Heh, heh. Has to be the phrase of the week.
I think I have matured enough in bloggingthat I have no time for hateful rumors-agreed – either prove it or shut-up
but at least in here u can post it
try that shit over on DP
The “Vance Phillips Youth Outreach Iniative” is one of those things that will never be “proven” because the young woman doesn’t feel at all wronged. In fact, her standing in the party has been elevated. Besides, we aren’t talking about, at least from what I’ve heard, anything illegal. This is a completely useless mental exercise.
I’ll preface this by saying that I do NOT, under any circumstances, believe the Sussex County Sheriff should be given any police powers. I haven’t seen such buffoonery since Bob Reed was mercilessly beating the same dead horse.
That being said…
“… $35,700 per officer with the DSP. A bargain, which I hope the DSP does not discover. I don’t care where I send my taxes as long as I get the intended services.”
With all due respect, you’re out of your fucking mind. Why should Sussex County be paying DSP extra for doing a job they’re obviously failing miserably at while being paid very well by our state taxes. Do the other two counties have to fork out millions of dollars for their services? I rather doubt it. What moron thinks this was/is some kind of a sweetheart deal?
After 16 years living on the same property I’ve owned for aver 25 years, I’ve been robbed 5 times since January of this year. The latest being 4 days ago. I do NOT expect the DSP to protect my property, that’s my job. What I do expect is for them to do is perform some reasonable investigative work, some token crime analysis reporting, and some follow up work. I also don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect them to show up in court after I actually solved the first incident for them.
I spent over 25 years in law enforcement, attended their academy, and have taught troopers at the academy for several years, so I have a good idea of their capabilities. As a resident of Sussex County, I can state with certainty that we are getting royally screwed.
the price we pay is for EXTRA troopers beyond the allotment we would normally get based on population.
Vance crashed his Ultra Light Plane on the way to see his GIRLfriend who goes to school in Va. I guess he needed to make sure she would not talk.
I never heard of anyone flying in the kind of weather we had the last few days.
Source says Vance may have tried to end it all. I know he is very loopy but please keep him an his family in your thoughts and prayers. The poor man is deeply troubled.
Crash, you’re so full of shit your eyes are brown. Unless you have proof of your claims, STFU!!!!!