A Crib Death for OccupyDelaware?

Filed in Delaware by on October 24, 2011

Not yet a month old, and already the Occupy movement in Delaware is in mortal danger. I don’t know if it is indicative of how the movement is progressing in other cities and states, but I hope not.  Allow me to explain…

Occupy is a youth movement. As such it is learning a lot of lessons that other protest movements have learned in the past (leadership, legal advice, logistics, public relations, etc.).  There is no shortcut to learning these lessons. In fact, I envy them for the fun that will have learning the lessons.

But there are a number of people from past movements that are looking to “help” these kids. These are people from Woodstock Nation, the civil rights marches and countless ill-fated progressive Presidential campaigns. These people mean well, but they must know their place. And I don’t mean that in a derogatory way, I mean that their time has passed from the perspective of their movements.

The Yippies of the 60′s had a rule of thumb to never trust anyone over 30. This should be gospel. In all fairness, I am 41, so take it with a grain of salt. But here are reasons why this is true. We are never going to spend weeks voluntarily sleeping in a park. We are comfortable living our lives of quiet desperation, driving our new-ish cars, sleeping in our comfortable beds and taking our vacations at the beach. We are easily intimidated.

The young people that are leading this movement are more capable of speaking truth to power than those of us that have celebrated a 30th birthday. We oldsters have reached the point that we have a lot invested in the status quo, whether we want to admit it or not.

Delaware has a number of these helpful oldsters that want to grind the same old axes that they have been grinding for decades. One of them has even been on several radio stations in the past week presenting their “demands”. I haven’t heard the demands, but I’ll gander a few guesses about what they are, Implementing Floyd McDowell’s single payer plan, satellite news access for everyone and the freeing of all Palestinian prisoners. I’m sure she has others, but I really can’t stand to listen to her spout off any more, and neither can anyone else.

So to the young people of Occupy Delaware, please don’t listen to us. We are happy to help in any way we can (supplies, cash, and covering the park after work so you can find a bathroom). But thank us for our support and send us on our way. This is YOUR movement. Own it and ride it as far as it will take you. It will be one of the greatest times of your life.

And to the old people that want to get back to the glory days of your youth: respect these young protesters and their ideas. Let them go on the radio and explain their positions. Let them organize in THEIR way. Let them write their own demands. Marvel at their energy, youthful idealism and freedom. Give them what they need. Then shut the hell up.

Otherwise, we will end up with the same old people, saying the same old things, to the same disinterested public. And Delaware will end up with another statistic in our infant mortality rate when we kill our own children just as they are starting to thrive.

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  1. Zafo Jones says:

    This is right on point.

    The old-heads over 30, like me, should be providing “hands-off” support and logistical assistance, but not trying to directly steer the actions and output of the movement.

    I’m working on the Occupy Delaware Legal & Security Committee, and there are a number of older folks working in the Health & Human Services Committee. In Legal & Security, we will not be directly involved in the action, but we will be providing legal observers to ensure the protection of the activists’ civil rights and providing logistical support in helping obtain permits and other related support functions. In Health & Human Services, they will be providing for food, shelter, and medial care to make sure the activists stay healthy, fed, and warm.

    Generally speaking, Occupy Delaware has all the youth-driven passion that it needs to succeed. What it needs from the older folks is experience-driven practical and logistical support.

  2. pandora says:

    Just heard the one you speak of on Al’s show. Apparently, there have been calls (call?) to remove their website. Not sure who is calling for that.

    But you make a great point, LG. The kids are alright. Help them, but don’t attempt to lead them.

  3. Delaware Dem says:

    Geek is too diplomatic. Liz Allen and Susan Regis Collins, shut up already, and stop pretending you lead Occupy Delaware.

    Thank you.

  4. Delaware Dem says:

    And attention News Journal and WDEL, you are now on notice that these two do not lead OccupyDelaware. So stop going to them for quotes.

  5. puck says:

    Thanks Geek. We screwed this up for the young folks, so we owe it to them to step back for a while.

    More to the point, a lot of us geezers can’t afford to be arrested, even on a quickie trespassing charge. And some peaceful assembly risking arrest seems to be called for here. We’ve got jobs and professional certifications that would be yanked instantly, and I don’t have the right to put my family at risk.

    Now if I were unemployed my outlook might change drastically.

    Which illustrates exactly how a large middle class promotes economic and political stability, and a shrinking middle class promotes the opposite.

  6. Self-proclaimed leaders/spokespersons in a studiously-leaderless movement should be viewed as what they are–self-aggrandizing publicity whores.

    Showing up at a meeting or two does not in any way give you the imprimatur to claim to speak for the movement.

    Susan Regis Collins grandstanding at a City Council meeting can do nothing but harm to a movement like this.

    This is not about refighting old battles. It’s about building an organic movement to make people listen and to act on changing the status quo of the corporatocracy and the complete neutering of politicians of all stripes.

    We should all know our place in this. It’s a non-hierarchical movement, and Susan Regis Collins and Liz Allen do not speak for it.

    Neither do I. But I damn sure can speak in support of it, and I damn sure want to see it succeed. As to camping out, that’s my daughter’s job…

  7. puck says:

    In many ways the modern conservative movement was a successful reaction against these strident hippies who failed to consolidate their own revolution.

  8. puck says:

    “Liz Allen and Susan Regis Collins, shut up already”

    Who?

    At any rate, I think the outdoor portion of the Occupy movement is going to shut down for winter anyway. The authorities know this too.

    The movement needs to find a way to continue indoors and save its energies for the spring.

    Here’s what I think the movement needs to – oh wait. Right.

  9. cassandra_m says:

    I need a LIKE button for DD’s comment @11:29.

  10. pandora says:

    LOL! But I don’t think Geek is referring to advice (that the kids may take or leave) as much as he’s talking about co-opting a movement by naming yourself spokesperson.

  11. liberalgeek says:

    While Liz and SRC may be the most obvious offenders at the moment, they aren’t the only ones, and they certainly won’t be the last ones that think “This is finally my chance!!!”. I’ve been doing this for less than a decade and I can name a dozen without breaking a sweat.

  12. puck says:

    OWS is not a bandwagon for leftists or even Democrats. I was surprised to see how non-partisan the movement is. I think mainly because on economic policy, Democrats are giving OWS nothing to root for. It’s 1%’er policy on both sides of the aisle and in the White House.

    OWS is way out in front of everybody – Democrats, the White House, aging hippies, the media – everybody.

    I am especially grateful for OWS giving us a new vocabulary. Now we oldsters can contribute to the movement by confronting our Congressmen with their support for the 1% at the expense of the 99%.

    Chris Coons I’m talking about you, with your repatriation tax holiday and your 29% Bowles Simpson top rate for the rich, funded by cuts to the safety net.

  13. Sugar Magnolia says:

    You are old, LiberalGeek, but even crusty old hippies like yourself can squeeze out a little gem of wisdom now and then to impress the kids.

  14. liberalgeek says:

    For the record, I was in-utero when Woodstock happened, so it is hard to assign me any title better than honorary hippie. I came of age during Reagan/Bush I, so the free love signs had come down and even the Gauloises were borderline contraband.

  15. kavips says:

    An interesting thought just came. Protest occurs when the normal dispersion of required information, gets interrupted.

    What they (the protestors) are saying in their act of occupying, is not new. WE have been saying it for 5 years now…

    But it never went main stream because it was blanked out of national media. Where in the national media have you seen a report on the movement of cash from the middle class to the top 1%?

    Hat’s off to protesters. They finally, figured how to bypass the commercialized media and get the message out…

    Their message is nothing new. Did I say it has been said here 5 years now?

  16. Socialistic ben says:

    To pucks point about getting arrested……
    What a good youth-led protest needs is “old people” backing. We need aged hippies who became lawyers who are willing to lay down some whoopass at a police station when we get arrested for peaceably assembling in a public area. We need to know there are still George Hanson/ Oscar Zeta Acosta types out there.

  17. Delaware Dem says:

    That’s entirely right Ben.

  18. pandora says:

    I’ll post your bail, Ben. ;-)

  19. liberalgeek says:

    And I’ll come in pretending to be your lawyer by saying lots of Latin words (amicus brief, habeas corpus, semper fi, los lobos) and demanding an immediate release of the fine citizen Socialistic Ben from the grips of the legal machinery, as he is the only one who has the antidote to the coming adrenochrome crisis or some such grand assertions.

    Either you’ll be freed, or I’ll be joining you.

  20. pandora says:

    This could become very expensive for me.

  21. puck says:

    Sounds like a Marxist plot. Groucho, that is.

  22. Socialistic ben says:

    Ah adrenochrome. only one source, only one cure. That made me chuckle heartily LG.
    All this support. you guys have me looking for my red bandanna, round sunglasses and american flag shirt.

  23. MJ says:

    I guess I’m the old man around here (I remember Woodstock and protesting against the Viet Nam war), but I agree that LA and SRC need to back off and leave OWS-Delaware alone.

  24. liberalgeek says:

    SB – when you start to see the hallucinations, I’ll drive.

    ::starts looking for a cigarette holder::

  25. cassandra_m says:

    Hijacking this thread for a hot minute — The Rum Diaries starts this weekend!

  26. liberalgeek says:

    We have been talking about an #OccupyCinema movement for the movie. You in, Cassandra?

  27. cassandra_m says:

    Just tell me when and where! If I’m available, I’m in….

  28. Frank Knotts says:

    “The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.” George Orwell

  29. liberalgeek says:

    Somehow it seemed as though the farm had grown richer without making the animals themselves any richer — except, of course, for the pigs and the dogs.

    - You guessed it!

  30. Anon says:

    Those that were present know half the people in that room were over 30? (10/12), (l0/19). Whats missing here is the point of the 1st amendment. We are all individuals and as such have a right to speak out. Yes, we are old war horses and have waited for years for the young people to step up to the plate. We don’t need our name in the paper,or any publicity. Your trashing people who are putting hours and hours of free time into this movement. Yes, we have a website and have it had for over a month. Yes, we met in Sept and the group voted on Core demands, their posted. Just because 10 people meet in Delaware City (and were 51% over 30), states clearly this is a movement of ALL the people not just young people, we are all the 99%. The first general assembly was held at the UAW hall when there were 100 – 150 people in the room. That was the FIRST General Assembly.

    If you had been at the meeting you would have a better idea of what happened. As you say, most of you would’nt put your ass on the line or get arrested. But you think you can come here to demonize those who are working their butts off to support the movement.
    Did you protest Citizens United? Did you protest the Patriot Act?

    So what are you doing blogzombies! What’s your contribution aside from your wagging tongues, continuing to trash those who are actually working instead of sitting around tap, tap tapping while your rights are being drained? The first amendment is our permit!

    Check out what Cornel West had to say (over 30)! Go to NPR.org “All Things Considered”, and hear from the ole man for yourself.

  31. Joe Cass says:

    Your meetings are mind numbing and accomplish only creating factions. And where the fuck do you get off pretending to rule by committee? Read a goddamn book.
    I’ll keep sending donations to NY, you jack offs at least have each other.

  32. I’m tired of seeing Liz Allen quoted in every single story about Occupy Delaware. Out of hundreds of people, how come they are always talking to her?

  33. Grin says:

    I’m just a lurker over 30, but I think LG is right about the over 30 crowd. Let the young folk take it from here , they have a lot more skin in the game.
    Pandora, loved your Who quote. Ive been using it myself in daily occupy conversations.

  34. pandora says:

    We welcome lurkers, Grin… and Who fans!

    The over 30 crowd can play an important support role, and we should!

  35. Socialistic ben says:

    LG, please let me know when we are going to see Rum Diaries. Cass, i know we’ve had some spats, but if we are both there, ill buy you popcorn!

  36. cassandra_m says:

    Out of hundreds of people, how come they are always talking to her?

    Because they’ve known her for a long time and it is easy to pick up the phone and call or send an email to someone who is already been in your Rolodex. Certainly easier than finding one of the more organic members of this group. And I expect that because they’ve known her for a long time, they know that if they keep in touch with her, they’ll witness the strain wreck sooner or later, because that seems to be the trend.

    If the Occupy folks have a Media Committee, have they provided contacts to the local media?

  37. Mostly well put.
    I made much the same point about letting this new phenomenon follow its instincts rather than trying too hard to help in my piece, Occupy Wall Street: the Space in the Spandrels at http://brokenturtleblog.blogspot.com/2011/10/occupy-wall-street-space-in-spandrels.html.
    But when you speak of “people from Woodstock Nation, the civil rights marches and countless ill-fated progressive Presidential campaigns” who need to “know their place” and whose “time has passed” you are painting with too broad a brush and denigrating some great activists who really do not deserve it.
    I have been to several of the General Assemblies and I can assure you there are plenty of lefties, trade unionists, community activists, and peacenik veterans there who are quite in accord with the deliberative and democratic processes of the movement. They are acting in principled solidarity, not to overwhelm.
    We need unity, not purges.
    Global change calls for global solidarity.

  38. MJ says:

    Well, at least we know that Frank was listening to the Fatman this afternoon, because he said exactly the same thing. Frank, can’t you at least come up with your own material?

  39. MJ says:

    The other reason, UI, is that she has a very, very, very, big mouth.

  40. liberalgeek says:

    Phillip – no, I am not painting with too broad a brush. I am certain that these young whippersnappers can learn something from all of the aforementioned groups of old-tyme protesters. But when people over 30 start speaking for the movement, start competing websites, present a list of demands and seek to recapture the lost glory of their youth, you don’t know your place in this movement.

    Here’s a quick quiz to determine if you are invading the movement: if a local media personality calls you and asks you who they should talk to from OccupyDelaware, do you refer them to someone over 30 or under 30? Or worse, do you pretend to speak for them yourself?

    I have already answered that for myself and referred them to an appropriate person. Others have chosen differently. Very few of the Woodstock Nations parents tagged along for levitating the Pentagon. Our place is to provide the support that they need.

  41. Anon says:

    You dont understand the first principle of the 99%.

  42. Geezer says:

    MJ: They have such a deep understanding of the source material. If the occupiers are supposed to be the pigs, they would be running the farm. He doesn’t understand Orwell’s pigs; he’s talking about Mother Goose’s. “Pigs are dirty, occupiers are dirty, yuk yuk.”

    The frightening thing about him is that he worked on the news side of radio before following the Rusty Limbaugh route. Sort of gives lie to the notion that all reporters are liberals, no?

  43. I really want to see the new voices take the lead here.

  44. Anon says:

    Hey Geek did you go fishing. No one called me up and said, “hey do you know anybody I can have on as a guest to discuss occupy delaware? No, he called and said, “would you please come on my show as my guest and discuss the occupy movement. Sorry your chrystal ball exploded.

  45. You can always say no.

  46. fightingbluehen says:

    Kind of pitiful seeing that Wilmington is the corporate capitol of the world.

  47. Landenberg NinetyNiner says:

    I’m older but I got it (great editorial!) and I get it and I have been watching and cheer leading, but not participating just yet for exactly this reason. The old folks are taking all the FUN out of this – and yes, the FUN and the JOY are very important to the success of the movement. You all are making this so much more complex AND BORING than it should be. There should be no demands except to be heard, there should be one unified cry that this status quo sucks and the world needs to hear our discontent.
    If there is one lesson some of us should have learned about the 60′s is that nothing that was demanded was gotten, but yet, everything changed. The world changed. We need that now.

  48. The way I see it, the old school activists haven’t got the media to pay attention for 40 years. The new generation got their attention in less than one month. Despite our years of experience they are already getting more results than we ever have. Perhaps they are onto something and don’t really need our advice.

  49. pandora says:

    Exactly, UI. In less than a month they have moved the media narrative away from debt and deficits. Very impressive.

  50. Socialistic ben says:

    Actually LG, as an “under 30″ i really agree with Phillip. I made a joke about needing an “old crazy lawyer” But the biggest thing people use against us “young” is that we are “young”.
    Your fellow “old people” dont really trust us and like to fall back on the fact that “we just don’t know”. You guys are in charge and the ones that we either need to convince what we’re saying has merit … or outlive… That may have been the darkest thing Ive ever typed… keep in mind, we’d MUCH rather change your minds than see anyone die….
    seriously. In order for things to get fixed, laws have to change, and that requires enough voters to buy into it all to blah blah blah.

    Hearing someone say “I’ve tried exactly what you’re talking about and here’s why it didn’t work” is very helpful. Its not about “letting us handle things” it’s about accepting that we are in this fight together. we need your knowledge and affluence and you need our ability…. no desire, to sleep in a park all winter. If someone needs to read an Occupy Wall Street article written by someone their age in order to get them into the fight, that’s totally fine.
    Im pretty sure we’re on the same page with all this, at least in the same chapter, but I’m just reminding everyone that this isn’t about credit, it’s about results. Think of it as a Do-ocracy.

  51. SB,

    I certainly agree that the veterans have a lot of hard-won wisdom to share. Just don’t let them take over.

  52. pandora says:

    I hear you, Ben. What I believe LG is saying in this post is that the Occupy Movement shouldn’t be hijacked.

    Also, Hearing someone say “I’ve tried exactly what you’re talking about and here’s why it didn’t work” is very helpful is not what you’re going to hear from a certain few – mainly because they don’t believe it didn’t work – and even if they did believe that, it wasn’t there fault.

    LG in his post, and others here in the comments, have given you advice. Beware of letting your generation’s moment from being hijacked by the same old voices.

    We are in this together. All of us are the 99%. That said, the voice of this movement is youthful. There’s a lot of power in that. You want to get people into the fight? You guys have already captured the world’s attention – Be careful who you hand that megaphone to. Just sayin’

  53. Socialistic ben says:

    But my point is that this movement is is getting beyond anyone “taking over”. If it is organic enough, the message and goals will lead. not an individual person. I don’t usually like to get too philosophical because i try to be rational and realistic, but i see a national shift in consciousness happening. Everyone needs to feel like and be an essential part of it.

  54. Socialistic ben says:

    I understand what you’re saying, pandora. Heh. we’re cautioning each other, it’s much preferable to fighting for control.
    I would point out that while a lot of the silliness portrayed in this movement are rare occurrences and hit jobs by the media, the finger wiggling nonsense wasn’t thought up by a bunch of old heads. We have to be careful who we let represent, no matter what their age is.

  55. One other reason I would like to see this movement led by the under-30s is that they are the generation most screwed. If they can afford college at all, they come out with huge debt and very few jobs to even begin to pay it back.

  56. Ben,

    I think lg’s point is that this isn’t true for Delaware. There is a huge danger that this movement will be co-opted.

  57. pandora says:

    I’m getting tired of agreeing with you, UI. ;-)

  58. Socialistic ben says:

    Im not blind to the threat of people seeking to use this for their own gain. But you’re right UI, we have been the hardest screwed…. we’re also good at sensing bullshit. Let someone try and “take over” I bet they ultimately get ignored. The Tea party got taken over because they were never real to being with.

  59. Sean says:

    I can assure you that no one with in the media/communication group from occupyde has taken it upon themselves to get interviewed secretly by the media. In fact; ever time such a request has come through, an email has been sent out to the group for volunteers. Also, in said emails, it was discussed that we need to get other occupations to interview as well; so that we keep it as diverse as possible.

    Bottom line here is that we as humans will always have those who want to derail this. We simply have to work together to get the message out that we ARE in Solidarity with OccupyWallstreet.

    To state that the answer to this is to let people under 30 do it; is a very prejudice stance. That is called ageism and it is just one more tool that stands to divide us as people. The bottom line here is that EVERYONE needs to work together under the DEMOCRATIC process; if we plan to reach an end goal. For those who do not and go on their own way; then fine. However, we will be triumphant because We Are The 99%’ and we are ‘Too Big to Fail!’

  60. Socialistic ben says:

    here here, sean

  61. Heffer says:

    I am 26 years old and I love the wisdom of the older generation. Many of you have gone through this during the 60s and the 70s. We have much to learn from you. On the same side though, you must listen to the new knowledge that the younger generation holds. Remember, when the older generation was born, they were already smarter then their parents. Now we are smarter then our parents by evolution alone. The 99% does not have an age limit. We are all the 99%.

  62. Socialistic ben says:

    careful with that logic, heffer. you come dangerously close to implying that George W Bush is smarter than.. well, anyone. :)

  63. liberalgeek says:

    In the interest of full disclosure, Phillip and I are good friends. I got no beef with him, I just think that having people that have been activists for 30 years stepping up and grabbing the microphone is the fastest way to sink the movement. Yes, that is advice, and you are free to dismiss it.

    But when people hear the same voices talking about Occupy that talked about all sorts of righteous, unrighteous and downright crazy movements through the years, those people say to themselves, “Oh, that’s what this is all about.” CLICK.

    I am not unlike Heffer (but 15 years older). Many of my friends are veterans of protests that were staged before I could walk, among them is Phillip. I have learned a great deal from those friends. But they (and I) have a secondary role. Personally, I embrace it. I’m inspired by the Occupiers, and I hope to learn from them as well. But don’t give me the microphone. Not only am I terrible at public speaking, but there are people with more skin in the game than me that deserve the moment in the spotlight.

  64. Liberalgeek, you ageist you. Anyway, just because some few go over the line does not mean you have to suggest none of the other lefties know better and the under 30s better watch out for them. Judging by the scrupulous way the Occupy General Assembly insists on their democratic process, they know who is and who isn’t playing along, and they don’t need some 40+ liberal geek to disabuse them of their ignorance. Snap! and g’night.

  65. liberalgeek says:

    I want the oldsters to take a step back and let the kids do what they do best, confound us. And Phillip, did you listen to what your parents and their friends told you was THE TRUTH?

    Now where did I put my glasses?

  66. Miscreant says:

    I totally agree, mature people should stay as far away from this movement as possible.

    http://angrywhitedude.com/wp-content/uploads2/2011/10/occupy_wallstreet_flag_poop.jpg

  67. anon says:

    If you have to be careful who you let represent the movement, as Ben suggests, isn’t that a pretty clear sign that the movement includes quite a few nutjobs?

  68. This is tricky, and it isn’t easy. The movement should include young and old and in-between. Hell, when I protested the Vietnam War, my parents came down to DC to march with us. So that’s not it, at least not in my opinion. I’m pretty sure that these old bones will be at demonstrations before it’s over, and I fully expect to continue to help with what I hope are future DL supply missions.

    I think that those of us issuing cautionary warnings have experienced those who legit can help build grassroots movements, and those who use the movements to promote themselves, usually to the detriment of said movements.

    The latter is what is happening here, and I think that’s what we’re really warning about. No good can come from Liz Allen or Susan Regis Collins claiming to speak for this movement.

  69. Socialistic ben says:

    anon,
    Ben agrees with pandora who suggests “you have to be careful who you hand the megaphone to.” I just said it differently. Im sure there are quite a few nutjobs, but far as I can tell (havent been to NY yet, but Philly is hoppin) The Code PInk, and the Legalize Its, and Peta are keeping their distance. I do see some silliness, but calling yourself the 99% means you have to be pretty radically inclusive. That’s why, while i appreciate the implied trust and respect in “old people” saying “this is a youth movement” I want to make sure people understand that this is beyond age or generation. And another thing if “over 30″ makes you too old to be an activist, that means i only have a few years left and it actually makes me ill. so, cool it with that nonsense.

  70. Socialistic ben says:

    I sort of know who Liz Allen and Susan Collins are, but most of the people camping out dont…. and i dont care what they have to say.. neither do the people camping out. The biggest thing to be careful of is letting ANY one person or small group of people become the leaders. If Egypt taught us anything, it is that people’s revolutions work best when everyone is as equal and united as possible.
    This is not not not the left wing teaparty. Those people wanted grifters to take their money and say exciting things to them. That is why Michelle Bachman, and Palin, and Beck and Fatman and Chrissy-O and everyone else were able to hijack it. It was never anything other than a racist bunch of conservatives who hate the president but were too cowardly and dishonest to say what they really were.

  71. puck says:

    Media gravitates toward the most outlandish personalities. It’s that simple.

    It reinforces the Establishment contention that OWS’ers are kooks. Plus it is less work for reporters.

  72. MJ says:

    Geezer, Curley is a lie, and his breath stinks, too.

  73. puck says:

    New Castle County holds foreclosure auctions every month in Wilmington in Council chambers. The next one is November 8. There are over 200 people’s homes on the sale list for next month alone – perhaps you recognize the names of friends or family. Up for sale by some of your favorite bailed-out banks.

    From the sale instructions:

    “THE ROOM CAPACITY IS 152 PEOPLE – GET THERE EARLY”

    So I guess if 152 people got there very early, nobody else would be allowed in. And they would pretty much have to take whatever was bid, if the auction is honest.

    Just saying.

  74. Miscreant says:

    MJ
    Trying not to read too much into this, but my wife walked by a radio yesterday at approx. 3:00PM, and heard that WGMD was advertising for a sponsor for that hour. I can’t help but think it’s because masses of people are hitting the off button just before Colley comes on.

  75. Socialistic ben says:

    that’s a great idea, puck. force them to sell the houses for a loss. Would you be willing to take it a step further and try to get ownership of the house back to the family who was thrown out by the banks? of course at no loss to you or me or whoever, but not at a profit either.

  76. puck says:

    If I can buy the house for $1, sure. Even giving back one house for $1 would make a statement. You need to bring a $5000 deposit to get a bidder number, though.

    But even without buying anything, it is possible to make the news and call attention to the foreclosures:

    http://www.iwatchnews.org/2011/10/13/7104/occupy-wall-street-aims-ire-foreclosures

  77. Dana Garrett says:

    I believe it was Timothy Leary who said you can’t trust anyone over age 30. He was over age 30 when he said it. He also said “You’re only as young as the last time you changed your mind.” I like that quotation. It makes considerations about chronological age seem myopic and rigid.

  78. JustSomeGuy says:

    Nope those were the words of that great Yippie Abbie Hoffman:) He was still under 30 at the time.

  79. Here’s a great post for ya –

    http://downwithtyranny.blogspot.com/2011/10/daddy-whats-hippie-glad-you-asked-guest.html

    partial:
    The pure of heart were exhorted to “Exorcize Haight-Ashbury. Do not be bought by a picture or phrase. Do not be captured in words. You are free, we are free. Believe only in your own incarnate spirit.” Woodstock shows that by 1969 even the long-haired masses had taken to calling themselves “freaks.”

    A year ago, shortly before the 2010 mid-year election, a left-wing blogger on a conference call with President Obama’s adviser David Axelrod complained that dismissive comments by the administration about its left-wing base amounted to “hippie punching.” The phrase was used to emphasize the contempt that the administration had shown for the progressive base, but it was also a reminder of the disdain that most of the Left has for the word “hippie,” as if to complain, “You think that we are as irrelevant as hippies!” Like those who ostentatiously distanced themselves from the Wall Street drum circles, the bloggers wanted to distinguish the modern Left from actual hippies (or who they thought hippies were).

    The anti-hippie ethos on the left runs deep. Many 1960s radicals claimed that the hippies had squandered a chance to mainstream left-wing political ideas. In Black Panther leader Bobby Seale’s book Seize the Time he quotes white radical Jerry Rubin as saying that he and others had formed the “Yippies” because hippies had not “necessarily become political yet. They mostly prefer to be stoned.” In the real world, the Yippies never got a mass following, but the Grateful Dead did.

    Early in 1967 writers for the Haight-Asbury psychedelic paper the Oracle, along with local poets, musicians, and mystics, organized the first Human Be-In in Golden Gate Park. They were chastised by a group of Berkley radicals, including Rubin, for rejecting their proposal that the gathering should have “demands,” a suggestion that the amused hippie conveners saw as a contradiction of the whole idea. (There are echoes of this argument in criticisms of the Occupy Wall Street protesters as insufficiently specific in their demands– as if the interests of 99 percent are not a clear enough litmus test for any proposed laws or regulations.)

    Bill Zimmerman, an antiwar activist of the Vietnam era, summarized the radical attitude toward hippies in his excellent memoir Troublemaker:

    Not believing they could alter the juggernaut of American capitalism through politics, the hippies tried culture instead– starting with [Timothy] Leary’s slogan, “Turn on, tune in, drop out”….While we [“the political people in the antiwar movement”] all accepted a subsistence lifestyle without expensive clothes, cars or other luxuries, they were about enjoyment, friendship, shared experiences, and whatever transcendence could be achieved through mind-altering drugs, music, and sex.

  80. Jen says:

    Hi,
    I am a producer/ booker for the Daily National, http://www.dailynational.com, a New York TV and radio news site. I really enjoyed this article. Would you like to do a brief radio interview about your blog post via phone? Are you available today?

    Jen
    jen@dailynational.com

  81. liberalgeek says:

    Hi Jen – no, thanks. Let us know if you need access to some of our younger protesters.

    See? How hard was that?

  82. Socialistic ben says:

    well played LG.
    Jen, just to review….. LG posted about how people over 30 should not speak for the movement…. how he was one of the “over 30″ who should not be considered a “voice” while i disagree and think someone of his mind and philosophies SHOULD in fact be a player in this, he doesn’t… so you asked him to come out and … nevermind. I kind of hope you were being ironic. :)

    “HIppies” and “left winger progressive activists”… or what ever you want to call us are pretty different. Hippies are closer to socially liberal libertarians. The people i know who consider themselves hippies…. including ones who were at woodstock are pro legalization, pro gay marriage, anti universal health care, anti war, you get the idea. like Ron Paul with dreds and a tie-die shirt.

    I look back on the 60s and think a lot of the “in your face” sexual liberation and drug use got in the way of the more progressive political movements. the “silent majority” tied equal voting rights to LSD fueled orgies in the street….. and while im not taking a stance for or against LSD fueled orgies in the street, I think something like fair pay for women is FAR more important than some new form of artistic self expression. I probably would have been labeled a progressive “hippie puncher” begging for my comrades to “tone it down” a bit so out message would be easier to swallow for a bigger part of the country. I dont feel the need to slap one to make myself look more appealing to conservatives, but i would be stressing… in the privacy of our own forum… to remember what is really important. There is a point at which folks have to realize that while you may get someone to agree with you that some changes have to be made, they will never be ok with other things.

  83. puck says:

    Jen, if you read this thread you do understand who NOT to interview, right?

  84. Occupy DE says:

    I, too, have enjoyed this thread, especially LOL’d at LG’s negative to the interview. I refuse to refer to myself as one of the old people who should step aside (I am WELL over 30) because it is my fight too, having been involuntarily retired 8 years early…but I have to tell you…being intimately involved in the organization of this leaderless movement in DE, I have to tell you…THE KIDS ARE INDEED ALRIGHT. They impress me every meeting I attend. They have restored my hope for this country. They are smart, they are tech savvy, they see a new way to make a difference. I’m happy in my backseat role as “Occupy Mom” proudly watching the kids do their thing.

  85. pandora says:

    I am proud of them, too, Occupy Mom. What they’ve accomplished in such a short time is simply amazing.

  86. think123 says:

    The protesters in the park are one thing, but the real protesters wear wingtips and they are occupying America’s courtrooms suing Wall Street for fraud. The battle cry is take the bastards to court. That’s what they are doing.

    Tea party states Virginia and Florida are leading the charge suing Bank Of New York Mellon for “unconscionable” conduct skimming their pension funds. They’re just two of many many worker pension funds that got bamboozled by Wall Street con artists. Virginia and Florida say New York Mellon played complicated Wall Street tricks with exchange rates so the bank go more and the retirees got less.

    The DA in Nevada won restitution for 700 consumers charging top tier Wall Street bank Morgan Stanley with “deceptive, egregious” behavior. Just one single fine for corruption cost Goldman Sachs $550 million. Last week, Citigroup agreed to pay $250 million for conning investors. AIG sued Bank Of America for $10 billion claiming BOA tricked investors regarding the Merrill deal.

    Investors, all over America, all over the world are joined in an upscale protest resulting in a flood of high powered lawsuits. They all say the same thing – Wall Street cheated them. The world’s third biggest pension fund Dutch ABP is suing Bank Of America saying they were conned. They are winning. Angelo Mozila CEO of Countrywide Mortgage paid a record $65 million dollar restitution and fine to avoid going to jail for insider trading. Washington Mutual, the biggest bank failure in American history, paid $208 million to settle an investors suit that said the banks top executives were telling people to invest even as they knew the bank was going bankrupt and they were selling their stock.

    The protesters in the park are one thing, but the real action is in court. So this is not some smelly hippie concoction. Read the court transcripts. There’s a major upscale revolt going on, lead by high end lawyers in wing tip shoes.

    Even our own Wilmington Trust. Made it through a century of world wars and depression but could not shoulder the greed of the last decade. Little Wilmington Trust shareholders left with nothing after a lifetime of saving. The big guys at the top of WT looted the bank, ran like rats with pockets stuffed with cash, and left us with a dumpster filled with useless Wilmington Trust signs.

    So this is not a figment of the young hippie imagination. You don’t have to be a hippie to read about the six top Wall Street CEO’s splitting up $2 billion for themselves even as the workers pensions funds were being conned for the money. It’s a great America tragedy. So young and old scrawl a simplistic message on a sign – “stop the greed”. That’s all we know to say. But that simplistic slogan says more than the words themselves. We all get.

    This has nothing to do with capitalism. Nobody is looking to cook the goose that lays the golden eggs. Capitalism is great. This is about corruption and thievery at the highest reaches of what once were our most trusted financial institutions.

    Let the young beat bongos and wave signs. The establishment elders are marching on the courtrooms. Everybody feels screwed. Read the court transcripts.

  87. Dana Garrett says:

    “The protesters in the park are one thing, but the real action is in court. So this is not some smelly hippie concoction. Read the court transcripts. There’s a major upscale revolt going on, lead by high end lawyers in wing tip shoes.”

    The rich and their lackeys try to monopolize everything, apparently even the attention given to a democratic grassroots movement.

  88. Socialistic ben says:

    think is right. We can protest and march all we want, but the weasels have such a disgusting amount of control, that they still find a way to get our nickel. We need allies with law degrees and elected titles.
    Anyone looking at this as something any one person or group will get credit for is looking at it the wrong way. Results are the only things that matter. Not credit, not who is on T.V, not who is or isnt getting attention.
    As someone who fits into the age group everyone here seems to be giving “ownership” of OWS to, on behalf of all of us, i abdicate ownership and offer it up to whoever has something positive to offer.

  89. think123 says:

    Interesting take Dana, never thought of it that way. Just goes to show you don’t have to be poor to feel screwed.

  90. Dana Garrett says:

    Think is wrong. What is happening in courtrooms is little more than the “debates” that occur in a corporate board room: a dispute about tactics, not structure. No one in the courtroom is making a serious challenge to to the structure of elite wealthy control. That can only happen in the streets. The courts are hardly a remedy since they exist to secure the continued domination of those interests.

    What Think said was at best a joke.

  91. puck says:

    You’re both right. I appreciate Thinky pointing out the litigation against banks happening all over. Some of it is worthwhile. On the other hand, Dana is correct that the litigation is not exactly corrective of the underlying problem. The 1%’ers are simply squabbling amongst themselves over their share of the loot.

  92. Socialistic ben says:

    We have to take them on from all sides. In the court room, in congress, on the streets. Overthrowing the federal government (peacefully) would be an easier task than overthrowing these un-elected, yet super powerful robber barons Im ending my relationship with my corporate bank and going credit union. WSFS isnt evil YET, but i cant help but think a BoA buyout is only a matter of time.

  93. I too am often worried when the media tries to find somone from Occupy Delaware to say some remarks and somehow they find Liz Allen. She has not done ANYTHING with Occupy DE. She has attended meetings and argued with people. She has been nothing but obstructionist.

    This is all really just drama. The rest of those invlolved with Occupy Delaware are working together great! Stay tuned for some action!

  94. think123 says:

    A lot of what’s going on in the courtroom has to do with pension funds of working people. Firefighters, police, teachers, state and city workers. New York to California they’re fighting hard to get their money back. The Virginia and Florida lawsuits against Bank Of New York Mellon are exactly that. Average working class Americans screwed over fighting back. The Attorney General in Nevada sued Morgan Stanley and got money back for ordinary homeowners. Nevada AG Cortez Masto said. “This is the first step in the right direction to protect consumers and put an end to this financial firm’s egregious behavior.”

    My point was what’s going on with this wave of lawsuits is a people’s movement, just dressed up a little different. Actually, my real point was the protesters are right about the system being corrupt. The lawsuits are the proof.

    The system may be bad, but I have yet to see any alternative “system” worth getting excited about. I’m still whistling John Lennon Revolution, you say you want a revolution let’s see the plan. Otherwise, keep the protests and the lawsuits going. You play the hand you are dealt.

  95. willo says:

    I am of the oldster category…but me and my room mate want to form a small protest starting from Chase Bank in Wilmington…perhaps to move to other banks…visit rodney sq. etc..

    Oct. 31 12 noon beginning @ Chase Bank. To be holding signs…

    “TOO POOR TO FAIL” bail me out.

    we are wearing bags on our heads to advertise our shame for the current state of the country.

    We are working on signs for our half day protest on sunday and will be there monday afternoon 12 am.. (lunch break till close)bring extra bags if anyone wants to join us.

  96. willo says:

    our protest was a success in that we found public support and an overall need for “hope” in this situation…where the government stands idle while average citizens are pretty much voiceless…therefore we will continue to protest in front of the banks in Wilmington

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