Friday Open Thread
Welcome to your Friday open thread. Does it feel like your days are finally getting back to normal yet? I feel like it’s been all election all the time lately. If I never have to read another story on Christine O’Donnell I’ll be a happy woman.
I love it! Doug Hoffman is still playing the spoiler in NY-23. Remember how Doug Hoffman and the Tea Party handed the House seat to the Democrat for the first time in 100 yrs by pushing out insufficiently conservative Dede Scozzafava?
Political fallout continues this week following Republican Matt Doheny’s defeat in the 23rd district House race.
Doheny lost to Democrat Bill Owens by roughly 5 thousand votes.
More than 9 thousand votes went to Conservative Party candidate Doug Hoffman, who had dropped out of the race in early October.
Yesterday, Hoffman’s campaign sent out a press release denying that he had played the role of “spoiler.”
He blamed Doheny’s loss on bad decision-making by Republican “party bosses.”
Thanks for giving Democrats the seat, Doug. Twice! That’s some good, deep undercover work there.
Mitch McConnell is already giving speeches saying his top priorities are 1) defeating Barack Obama in 2012 and 2)repealing health care. I guess jobs & the economy are priority #3. Republicans won’t be able to repeal health care reform, for many reasons:
Obama Isn’t Interested in ‘Re-litigating’ Health Care, Washington Monthly’s Steve Benen observes. The president might have said he’s humble in his post-election press conference, but on his signature legislation, he “clearly doesn’t seem inclined to budge on this. If Boehner & Co. think Obama will be pushed around on health care, and that with the right leverage, repeal is an option, they’re mistaken.” Benen adds that Obama is setting up a narrative: “re-fighting the battles of the past is a mistake.” The message is “all Republicans want to do is fight over things that happened in the past, instead of focusing on the future — which may come up quite a bit in the coming months. … [T]he underlying message to Republicans intending to push for some wholesale overhaul seemed to be pretty straightforward: don’t bother.”
Holding Up Confirmations Isn’t Enough, Marketplace’s Nancy Marshall Genzer reports. “The Senate is responsible for confirming the heads of new bureaus and offices established by the health care and financial overhauls. Again, Republicans don’t control the Senate, but they could hold up those confirmation votes. [Business law professor Jennifer] Taub says that’s the reverse of what’s needed. Think of the new laws as children.” Taub explains, “The legislation itself, the code, is like the DNA and we need a combination of both nature and nurture for it to thrive.”
Defunding Health Care Isn’t Really an Option, Either, The Wonk Room’s Igor Volsky explains. Boehner and Newt Gingrich have come out in favor of this option, but “that may be easier said than done. As former Senator Tom Daschle explained in a recent interview, ‘a lot of what we did in health care reform has more of an entitlement than a discretionary funding base. So as an entitlement, they would really have to change the law rather than simply not fund in order for it to be effected. The entitlement sections of the legislation are going to be fairly immune from defunding.’ The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimates that there is ‘at least $50 billion in specified and estimated authorizations of discretionary spending that might be involved in implementing that legislation’ and presumably that’s the spending Republicans can more easily de-fund.”
And GOP Interest Group Allies Love It, Steve Pizer and Austin Frakt argue at The Incidental Economist. “The Republican base hates health reform because it’s a symbol of Obama. They think it’s a product of the far left, when in fact it’s chock full of Republican ideas. … When the new Republican House majority starts legislating on health care, they will be more concerned with what the relevant interest groups want. The insurance industry, hospitals, and drug companies want looser regulation and lower taxes. That is, the big players want what they always want–more control over implementation and establishment of favorable regulations–even if it’s at the expense of a more efficient health system for the rest of us. But they also want the mandate, which can’t work without the subsidies and insurance reforms. The [Affordable Care Act] began as a moderate Republican reform proposal for a reason: with respect to the fundamental structure of the law, the interest group politics work pretty well. We doubt the House leadership will do anything to alienate the insurers, drug companies, or hospitals. Put it this way, if those interest groups didn’t want health reform of the form we got, they would have killed it last winter, if not before. They didn’t. So the mandate and overall structure of the ACA are safe.”
National Republicans will have to put on a show about it because it’s what their base expects. How do you think they’ll fare when they lose this battle? Will the teabaggers move on or will they keep cannibalizing themselves. The fight might move to the states because Republicans control more state legislatures now but it could also start hurting the people who are beginning to be helped by the law. I’m not sure how well that will go over.
Tags: Open Thread
Over at DP the reliable FVoshell is rolling out their stabbed-in-the-back narrative:
Dave Weigel gives us the list of pundits predicting an O’Donnell win.
Hey UI, you write great “Open Threads,” but how come you write “Open Threads” at all? Your “Open Threads” would make great Topical threads, and then you could just leave the open thread as simply an open thread (with no editorial attached).
Signed,
Just curious
“If I never have to read another story on Christine O’Donnell I’ll be a happy woman.”
I fear happiness will elude you. She seems to have an instinct for the spotlight.
Obomba was never from Kenya. He’s from Goldman-Sachs.
Economist Michael Hudson: @ 19:30
“He [Obama] has always represented Wall Street’s interests.”
“He has turned into the third Bush-Cheney administration.”
“He has appointed the worst of the Bush people, like Tim Geithner as the Treasury secretary.
“He has kept on the most right wing of the Clinton people as his economic advisers.
“He is essentially in Wall Street’s pocket.”
remember remember the 5th of November ……. (is that treason now that R’s are in power?)
Here we go! Shut down all progressive voices. Keith Olberman was just put on indefinate leave from MSNBC, without Pay! Do you progressives SEE what is happening to the corporate media. Shut down, shut out all voices who fact check the lies of the teabaggers. Oreilly, Hannity and Beck are the worst GOP progandizers…when will they leave the air! Never.
Olberman was put on leave for making political contributions, despite a clause in his contract that forbids it.
Dumb move.
anon: Why are you so obsessed with media propaganda? Nobody who watches Fox News goes to MSNBC to have their biases fact-checked. Nobody who listens to WILM will have his opinion about any national issue influenced by what he or she hears there.
Olbermann did not disclose his donations to candidates whom he then interviewed. If this is against company policy, I don’t think he has anyone to blame but himself.
By the way, since it’s Obtuse Friday here at DL: My complaints about the state police and their political power in Delaware should not be taken to mean that I think all state police are evil, that the work they do is not for the most part well-done and honorable. My complaints about the teachers’ union should not be taken to mean I think most teachers aren’t worth more than they’re paid. Etc., etc.
Interesting, though, that almost all the conversation has been about what a terrible person I am, rather than the fact that Tim Sheldon is a pawn of the Democratic Party/organized labor cabal in Dover.
Was anyone surprised that Harris McDowell was riding in KWS’s car yesterday at Return Day? I think Elliott was in the trunk.
and just when will the investigations into Hannity, Oreilly and Beck begin. Holding a mass rally in DC favoring teabaggers, using a “network” to promote it, and then consistent progandizing and demonizing of every democrat, thats ok with you Geezer? You dont see the forest for the trees. Here’s my point. The 4 billion spent on advertising etc, WHO BENEFITED? Corporate media thats who. One day after the election all these “right wing media stations like Clear Channel” here locally, make drastic changes to their “policies”, created by a local right wing faux news station manager. If we the people are not permitted to get facts and not delivered propaganda and fiction, the country is lost. How many democrats did Fox have on its program? How many teabaggers? Didnt Palin and Angle state, ‘stay away from all the media except Faux”, get you message out on Faux, cuz their friendly?
Tim is a good man…and a conscientious elected official. He is not a thug…he is gentleman. Never heard anyone say otherwise. He has a record of voting for & against development prorjects based on their merit and the law. It is easy to stereotype him…but I would expect more of the contributors here.
I checked Delawareonline re: the recent proposed change to the redevelopment code (see below). We ask public officials to be honest…he is. Be fair to the man.
“The New Castle County Chamber of Commerce opposes Councilman Timothy Sheldon’s proposal to not allow undeveloped land to qualify for redevelopment status (see today’s story).
Sheldon will introduce the proposed ordinance at tonight’s New Castle County Council meeting (click here to read the ordinance resolution).
Labeling it a potential job-killer, Chamber President Mark Kleinschmidt issued a statement this afternoon in staunch opposition to Sheldon’s proposal:
“This is an effort to restrict redevelopment across the board in reaction to a disagreement over one or two redevelopment projects and it should be rejected.””
“Holding a mass rally in DC favoring teabaggers, using a “network” to promote it, and then consistent progandizing and demonizing of every democrat, thats ok with you Geezer?”
They didn’t ask me, nor did they have to. I’m not in the habit of railing against things I can’t change.
“If we the people are not permitted to get facts and not delivered propaganda and fiction, the country is lost.”
For most of its history, U.S. citizens got their information from news sources loyal to political parties. People who want to watch right-wing propaganda and ignore other facts and viewpoints are going to do so, whether you like it or not. As the late, great Paul Owens said, “You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t stick the dumb son of a bitch’s head in it.”
“One day after the election all these “right wing media stations like Clear Channel” here locally, make drastic changes to their “policies”, created by a local right wing faux news station manager.”
For all you know it’s corporate-wide. Clear Channel, IIRC, also syndicates Rush. It’s their ball and their ballgame.
“How many democrats did Fox have on its program? How many teabaggers? Didnt Palin and Angle state, ’stay away from all the media except Faux”, get you message out on Faux, cuz their friendly?”
What I object to is the notion that we are in some sort of propaganda war, and if we just pumped out enough propaganda of our own, we’d win. We will win when and if conservative policies lead to ruin, because conservatives are selling snake oil to the weak-minded.
….and before anyone asks, no this change to the redevelopment code was not union vs non-union project issue. Tim did what he thought was right. And while I don’t know this for a fact…my guess is that not everyone in labor . the development community or elsewhere liked it.
Anon, get used to it. The Liberal/Conservative double standard continues…
Person X does something inappropriate (affiar, donations against contract, incit political violence from scared uninformed desperate unemployed/old people etc.)
If Person X is Liberal there is an outcry, and the powers that be either fire/suspend him to punish him for his poor behavior, or they resign because “it’s the right thing to do” (see Spitzer, Elliot, Olberman, Keith)
If Person X is Conservative there is an outcry, and they either say the outcry is stupid because they did the right thing, or they just hide out and wait for people to forget about it (see Rove, Karl; Cheney, Dick; Vitter, David etc. )
Liberal Person X now has to start over, Conservative Person X continues to be successful since the American people have the memory of a goldfish.
it’s just a variation on liberals fall in love, conservatives fall in line.
We expect more of the people who represent us, and criticize them (soemtimes harshely) when they aren’t all we wanted.
Conservatives just back their guy, right or wrong. and it works for them.
rh: Thank you. I will take that into consideration. By the same token, I wonder whether this stance was influenced by the fact that he’s now facing a county-wide election, apparently against a Republican who will be able to claim anti-development bona fides of his own.
V: It’s far simpler than that. Olberman’s boss doesn’t allow what he did. Maybe Fox does. In any case, it’s crazy to get upset because one corporation plays by one set of rules while another corporation uses another.
I guess that’s possible…looks like it was in Sept. But I really think it was a reaction to a loophole that a recent proposed project revealed.
If CNN is smart, they will sign him up. HOpefully Rachel gets off that sinking ship.
and for the record, i think Jack Donaghy had everything to do with this.
Oh my, looks like Scarborough and Buchanan have been writing checks as well. Will they be suspended? (FTR, I think this is silly.)
The point is… NBC is pretending that everyone thought Olbermann was an objective reporter. Very, very silly. However, if they want to go down this path the Scarborough and Buchanan should receive the same punishment.
Ever heard of “In kind services”? Angle told the baggers to go to Faux (only) she raised millions after going on Hannity. O’Donnell same thing. Ever wonder why NO news organization EVER supports Campaign Finance Reform? Who got the 4 Billion in advertising from these corporates, “International” Chamber of Commerce, secret donors,i.e 45 billionaires.. What about the Beckster? A rally in DC for the baggers, televised on FAUX news! How can FAUX news be considered a “news organization”? So can we all agree the “media” sold out democracy to corporate America?
Pandora: Olberman did fact checking so does Rachel. They were reporting facts not fiction. If they made a mistake on their shows, they apologized the next night.
Geezer: unfortunately we have people in survival mode. They “think” if they read something or hear it on any program…thats a fact. Its a right wing reality! Like Bachman stating the president was spending $200 million on his trip! She read that from Newsmax, Politico, Breitbart, Hannity, Beck and Oreilly. The right puts out a lie, the other right wing talking head furthers the lie and then its a “fact”. The citizens are listening to the Clear channels around the country (they are the biggest) and you wonder why the citizens are so dumb.
“So can we all agree the “media” sold out democracy to corporate America?”
No. But I think we can all agree that you’ve undertaken yet another hysterical crusade.
Geezer: I’m not saying he did a wrong thing, according to his contract he did.
I’m just saying that if this happens on the conservative side (even if those kinds of rules are in place) I doubt it would be an issue.
Like Pandora, I think this is silly. Just pointing out the difference between the right and the left here. I bet Scarborough will be fine because they “need” his conservative voice(unless that explains why he wasn’t on Morning Joe this morning).
anon: Can’t you give people credit for any intelligence at all? People don’t listen to conservatalk radio or watch Fox because it’s the only channel available. Sorry to shout, but THEY WANT TO BELIEVE THAT CRAP! I really don’t think people are as dumb as that, but if they are, we’re screwed anyway. Keith Olbermann isn’t going to make any difference.
“I’m just saying that if this happens on the conservative side (even if those kinds of rules are in place) I doubt it would be an issue.”
Agreed. But I will point out that trying to point out every instance of conservative hypocrisy is a Sisyphean task.
It’s not just about Olberman? Its about the 4 billion just delivered to EVERY media outlet in the country. There is no free press its all corporate owned. “Facts” are delivered by the ones who get the MOST cash. Great for our democracy! Geezer: respond to my comment on Campaign Finance Reform, you for or against it. I would be willing to bet every talking head in the country will be against it, cuz finance REFORM would keep those billions from going into corporate press america’s coffers. Why do you think the right worked so hard to take out Russ Feingold?
“Sisyphean Ha! He said Sisyphean! huh huh!
Faux ratings are the highest! What are you talking about? Where do you think the majority get the fiction and distortions they bring even to local talk radio….Faux news, Clear channel and other righty groups. It doesnt matter how many facts you put out in opposition to their lack of information, they don’t buy it. Geezer: do you stand by Faux News and the fact that “fact checking them”, proves they lie on a daily basis. Yes people do listen to righty radio and faux news…that is why they are so dumbed down. Campaign Finance is the ONLY answer to fair, and free elections.
Geezer: Agreed. I just think that’s sad. And maybe if we just accept that Republicans are hypocritical asshats and not care instead of calling them out maybe we condone it a little.
Am reading a book: “Right of the dial: The rise of Clear Channel and the Fall of Commerical Radio”….just filled with juicy right wing facts. In 2002, Russ Feingold stated: “We must preserve radio as a medium for democracy”. Media sources published stories on Clear Channel suffocating the radio business and concert series”. Since 2002, CC has been involved five major headline on how the company was ‘stomping’ on the first amendment and systematically wresting the radio airwaves from their rightful owners, the american public. “How did a $9 billion media conglomerate become one of the most hated corporate entities in our country”. “Music business refers to them as the “Evil Empire”.Perhaps its the reason I am so perplexed and shocked at media in america and how it does affect the country. 2003 Fortune Magazine called them the “bad boys of radio”. NYTimes ran several articles on Clear Channel while Michael Powell was head of FCC
@V & @Geezer- its kind of like the Juan Williams response but more ethical
There’s an article out now quoting an unnamed “insider” at NBC saying that the NBC News ethics rules do not apply to MSNBC, and have not for some years.
http://gawker.com/5682789/nbc-news-source-our-rules-dont-apply-to-olbermann-and-msnbc
(It’s gawker, so take it with more-than-a-few-grains of salt)
clearChannel made y-100 go away.
clear channel is another example of deregulation. They own the market, what ever market your talking about ergo they own the message.
According to Don Elkins from WBOC, he spoke with Christine O’Donnell’s campaign manager – he says the campaign hasn’t and WON’T end, they’re still sending out news releases and maintaining a core staff. She’s on O’Reilly tonight.
Maybe she thinks she won, after all, she beat masturbation.
Exactly, MJ – she is going to some how pay herself in an endless campaign.
From Alternet: Olberman donated $7200 from his personal accounts, DISCLOSED the contributions, and did NOT have any of those candidates on air. Scarborough donated to republican house candidates in 2006, and Buchanon donated to 5 republican candidates from 2005-08.
Faux Rupert Murdock the GOP Network donated $l.25million to Republican Gov. Assoc. and $l million to the “International” Chamber of Commerce.
Hundreds vs millions? And you don’t believe the right wing BOUGHT this election?
Breaking News: D Dan Malloy has squeaked out the Connnecticut Governor’s race over Tom Foley, according to CNN. I thought that one had been decided in Foley’s favor on Election Day.
El S – there were problems with the ballot count in Bridgeport. Any word on the MN governor’s race?
Actually, he had at least one of those three candidates on his show, so ALTERNET is lying.
Scarborough and Buchanan don’t claim to be journalists — Olbermann does, making his offense less one against the rules of the company and more one against his profession.
And as for Murdoch and Fox, don’t forget that GE (which owns MSNBC) made big contributions to the DNC and other Democrat organizations and candidates. You can’t critique the one without critiquing the other.
Hey OJ, isn’t lying to you the same as breathing?
Thanks for the update about who owns who, you’re right on time. Of course you are aware of General Electric’s market share of weaponry so with all of your exalted wisdom please explain again how its a “liberal media”.