It is time to do away with the Old Testament.

Filed in National by on November 18, 2009

“Religious” conservatives have a new slogan that they are putting on bumper stickers and t-shirts.

“Pray for Obama: Psalm 109:8”

What does Psalm 109:8 say?

“Let his days be few; and let another take his office.”

Well, that’s not bad. They are just praying for Obama to be replaced as President. Hey, I wanted Bush gone as President too, through his impeachment for war crimes. But let’s read the next verse that follows Psalm 109:8 which “religious” conservatives all so cleverly leave off the t-shirts and bumper stickers.

Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow.”

So, it is pretty obvious that anyone repeating, wearing, or using this slogan “Pray for Obama: Psalm 109:8” is actually calling for the President’s death in some form. And they want him to die sooner rather than later.

Let his days be few.
Let another take his office.
Let his children be fatherless
Let his wife be a widow.

That is in the book of Psalms. A prayer book in the Old Testament. Now, I could turn this post into a tirade against those “religious” conservatives and critics of the President that thought this up. But we have done that. Despite all their protestations, they are just pure evil, hoping and praying that the President is killed simply because they disagree with him politically. Nothing can justify that. Not even the null and void text of the Old Testament. Eternal hellfire awaits them all. Indeed, I enjoy the ironic image of those “religious” conservatives shoveling ash in Hell with the likes of Pol Pot, Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin, given their recent protestations about Hitler and Stalin.

No, today I will turn my ire against the Old Testament of the Bible, the text that provides these “religious” conservatives with their murderous ideas in the first place. Let me ask you a question.

Has any other book been responsible for more death and destruction over the last 5,000 years that this one?

All sorts of depravity are justified by its text. Slavery, genocide, and murder. To this day, David Anderson opposes homosexuality simply because the Old Testament says it is an abomination. To this day, people use its text to justify their wrongful behavior. Revenge is justified by the Old Testament. Discrimination is justified by the Old Testament. Hatred is justified by the Old Testament.

Have any of you ever read the Old Testament from cover to cover?

This scene from the West Wing sums up my reaction nicely.

Save some stories about Moses, Noah, King David and the Ten Commandments that we Christians learn in Sunday School, or that we see in the Charlton Heston movie “The Ten Commandments” around Easter every year, the Old Testament depicts God as an enormous mean vengeful asshole. And because of the depravity contained within its pages, more people have been killed in the name of its verses and in the name of God than any other reason. Indeed, I dare say that today’s family friendly “religious” conservatives would want the Old Testament burned because it was too violent if it also didn’t give those same “religious” conservatives license to hate all people not like them, with the added support of Heavenly support for their hatred.

When I went to Catholic school and Sunday school, I was taught that the New Testament overruled the Old Testament, and that Christ’s commandment that we all love one another as He loved us and the world was more important than anything you would find in the Old Testament. I was taught that to be a Christian you followed both Christ’s teachings and His good works, in caring for the poor, sick and needy. So, to me, the Old Testament is worthless. And given the hatred it inspires, it is long past time to fling it into the recycle bin.

But I do recognize the other argument that the Old Testament was incorporated into the New Testament by Christ Himself, and thus we must follow both. As the apostle Paul said in Romans 11:18, “Do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.”

The Old Testament was the only form of Scripture which was used by Jesus Christ, the Apostles, and the first Christian community. Jesus referred to the Old Testament consistently. When the words were written, “All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,” (1 Timothy 3:16) the statement was talking about what we call the Old Testament and what was then known as “Scripture.” Indeed, the majority of God’s Word is in the Old Testament. When the Bible is divided into 52 weekly readings we don’t even get to the New Testament until Week 41!

So if you believe that Old Testament is still relevant today, you believe in a God that is giant dick, who condones and actually encourages murder, slavery and genocide, who believes that some of His own children that He created in His own image are actually abominations destined for eternal flame. I am content to follow the New Testament and his commandment that we love rather than hate each other. But I suppose if your political ideology rests on hatred, it is useless to have the Old Testament around.

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  1. Oooo, DD, I was just reading about this.

    Here’s a good article by the Christian Science Monitor. They asked the question: funny or sinister.

    Frank Schaeffer on Rachel Maddow definitely thought sinister.

  2. anon says:

    Put ’em all on a terror watch list.

  3. a.price says:

    Agreed DD. These people are disgusting pigs. I Clearly remember the left wing making a point to AVOID calling for Bush to be killed. MOSTLY because of the horrific idea of president Cheney, but also because no person with a shred of decency should ever pray for the death or with for the death of another. I will find it VERY hard to to rear end cars i see with this bumper sticker. I hope they all rot in hell (after they live a full life)

    It really is disgusting… I think I’ll avoid referring to the Right as people anymore, they sure aren’t acting like it.

  4. Zen says:

    Easy there.
    Let’s not make the same mistake that fundamentalists, and to a lesser extent, evangelicals, make. The Bible is not to be read literally.

    The Bible is a book that is meant to be read in context. It is also a book that has human authorship, and chronicles people’s experiences of and with their God, as seen through their historical and cultural filters.

    My personal belief is that the Old Testament, in its more violent expressions, tells us more about human nature than it does about any God that might exist. Having said that, there is also evidence of moral progression in the OT. For instance, the 10 Commandments, codified moral rules, represent an enormous step forward for civilization, relative to how we understand life to have been lived in general, at the time they were written down.

    So … be careful. Be thoughtful. Don’t throw out all things old, honest, or truthful because they do not fit your modern world-view at first glance.

  5. a.price says:

    read in context? what denomination of American Christianity do YOU belong to? Now, I know not all people are crazy evangelical zealots, but make NO mistake, the people who have these bumper stickers WANT the president to die. They are praying for the DEATH of Sasha and Malia’s father because they cant deal with the fact he might pass laws that force them to take responsibility for people who dont look or pray like them. It is the most vile kind of hate and any person with a soul should be calling them out, not trying to mount a defense for their sub-human behavior.

  6. a.price says:

    it is also interesting these christian terrorists use the old testament only when it helps back up their bloodlust. the rest of the time, when they have to hate Jews instead of the darky who stole their country, the old testament isn’t valid.

  7. Zen says:

    a.price … I currently belong to no denomination of Christianity. But have studied this subject enough to know that, as with all great literature, the Old and New Testaments are to be read carefully.

    I am also of the mind that hyperbole solves nothing … whether it is Liberal hyperbole, or Conservative hyperbole. Whether it is ideologically based, emotionally based, or religiously-based.

    It all serves as a distraction from actually doing anything of actual value for the people.

  8. Rebecca says:

    It seems that the C Street House in D.C. is losing 66% of it’s property tax exemption. The tax liability for 2010 is going to be $10,234 on valuation of $1.8 million. The first floor rooms, where evangelical Christians get their prayers and counseling sessions on, are still tax exempt. But the upper floors that are rented to prominent Republican sinners, who need to stay close to the sessions on the first floor, are now subject to D.C. property taxes. Hah! You can read the full article at:

    The seriously funny part of the article concerns the counseling offered to Doug Hampton, whose wife was being shagged by his boss, Senator John Ensign (R-Nevada). The counselor was Senator Tom Coburn (R-Oklahoma) and here’s what the Washington Post has to say about that . . .

    “It was there that Coburn, an obstetrician and gynecologist, met with Ensign’s friend and former top aide, Doug Hampton, the husband of Ensign’s mistress, for an emotional chat about forgiveness. Coburn reportedly advised Ensign to stop the affair but has said he would never reveal the details of those discussions, citing his religious privilege as an “ordained deacon” and his medical privilege as Ensign’s OB-GYN.”

    I guess if you are a serious and serial shagger you might need to consult at “lady” doctor from time to time. That’s just another handy counseling service offered at C Street.

  9. a.price says:

    Then you will know the people who study the bible and other religious texts are much different form the people who FOLLOW them. Or in this case, use them to justify hate. they are saying “I pray to God you die” to another human being.
    YOU may understand that the old testament is a collection of stories designed to be discussed and interpreted, but these pigs dont. What possible “deeper meaning” can be gleaned from this particular example? how do you justify the people who carry around signs of Leviticus 11:12? The entire Westboro baptist congregation bases their whole belief system on one direct (probably mistranslated) quote.

    this is just another piece in the puzzle. It wont be long until someone acts on these prayers. Until someone comes to the conclusion that God WANTS them to kill the president to save america. the lone wolf that Glenn Beck has no responsibility for… or whatever. It is MORE dangerous to ignore their behavior. They pose a threat to the peace and stability of the nation.

  10. a.price says:

    republicans and greedy false prophets posing as preachers have bastardized and perverted Christianity. If i say people of power exploiting Judaism to try and get political rivals murdered in the name of God, you can bet i would do all i could to take that stain off my people.

  11. h. says:

    aprice, why should I be FORCED to take responsibility for those who can’t be responsible for themselves?

  12. Zen says:

    Dear a.price,
    I am not suggesting that we ignore it.
    The bumper stickers/t-shirts are immature and unenlightened attempts to appeal to an authority for personally held beliefs. And yes – a cuckoo person could decide to act on them. But we will always have the nuts with us, on all sides of the ideological spectrum. They don’t need mis-quotes and mis-understandings of ANYTHING to unravel and commit horrible acts … they’re on that trajectory already.

    I was only responding to the notion that a great text, used in worship by three of the world’s great religions (Judaism, Islam, and Christianity) should be thrown out because it is misunderstood and misused.

    In fact I believe that my comments call for a reasoned approach. If a good thing is misused, this does not mean that it should be “Done Away With” — if we, who claim to be progressive or “liberal”, speak this way, aren’t we just moving to an opposite extreme from the “Conservatives”?

  13. Geezer says:

    “the 10 Commandments, codified moral rules, represent an enormous step forward for civilization, relative to how we understand life to have been lived in general, at the time they were written down.”

    In truth, the steps forward were taken much sooner in what we now call the Near East. The Code of Hammurabi is the best-known of these in the West, both because so many copies of it have been found and because the Jews were exposed to it during the Babylonian Captivity, but other Fertile Crescent civilizations had similar codes — which covered economic as well as social and spiritual rules — even earlier.

    Those who maintain the Ten Commandments as the basis for Western legal codes are parading their ignorance of human history.

  14. Zen says:

    Geezer: Yep. But I was trying to stay on point and not write too much of a book.

  15. lizard says:

    ” I Clearly remember the left wing making a point to AVOID calling for Bush to be killed”

    ok, price of crack, put down the pipe. The left wrote poems about killing Bush, produced plays about killing Bush, never mind the antics of the leftie protestors.

    for the slowest of you, the fact that they left did something is not justification for the right to do the same thing.

  16. Delaware Dem says:

    “The left wrote poems about killing Bush, produced plays about killing Bush, never mind the antics of the leftie protestors.”

    Who did?

    “The left?”

    You mean we all sat down together and wrote poems about the murder of the President? All of us? Every single liberal alive on the planet? We all gathered in one place to write a poem?

    And when we saw how successful that poem was, we all then got together to write a play?

    All of us? Really?

    The Lying Lizard’s logic is truly laughable.

  17. Delaware Dem says:

    Lizard, are you praying for Obama to die or do you in any way endorse the Psalm 109:8 slogan?

    If you answer yes, than this post is about you and you are an evil bastard destined for Hell.

    If you answer no, then shut up. This post is not about you.

  18. lizard says:

    the same left that said all republicans should be rounded up and shot.

    hmmm where did I read that?

  19. nemski says:

    Oh, good one, lizard. Did someone apologize for their hyperbole? Did you mention that?

    If you’re not going to bring anything constructive to the table, why even bother coming. You’re an apologist for the fanatical right-wing and I’m tired of it.

  20. Delaware Dem says:

    Again, you are saying that all liberals everywhere gathered at my home and helped me write that Republicans should be round up and shot?

    Or are you saying that I, Delaware Dem, individually, am The Left?

    If the former is the case, then we are a very conflicted ideology, since many of fellow liberals criticized me for saying that. In fact, I recanted my round them up comments and apologized.

    If the latter is true, then please provide proof that I have ever authored a poem or a play that called for the murder of Bush. If you do not provide links to such work in ten minutes, I will sue you for defamation.

  21. V says:

    I HATE to say it but I think lizard is right

    But what i don’t recall on the left is a religious bent to these calls for violence (probably because one of the liberal causes is the separation of church and state). We’ve got regular people and church leaders (i saw that story a while back) opening praying for the death of our leader.
    They’ve got what they think is religious justification and more of a gun culture than the liberal side. Say what you will about the “liberals did it too” argument, but i think that the ingredients in the wignut pot are a lot more volatile than the moonbat stew we got goin on over here.

  22. Delaware Dem says:

    No, V, I was aware of that movie. But what I am saying is his insistence that “The Left” wrote, directed and starred in that movie, as if the “The Left” was some united collective like the Borg in Star Trek.

    I have been constantly criticized in the past when I lumped all conservatives and Republicans together, and rightly so. I did not do it in this post. But now Lizard is lumping all liberals and Democrats together into this unified “The Left.”

    So if you all are going to criticize me for doing it in the past, you are required by law to criticize and lambaste Lizard now.

  23. pandora says:

    LOL, DD! Did you just ask lizard for a link?

  24. nemski says:

    LOL that film was made by the Brits, most actors didn’t even know the title of the movie (it only had a working title), Hillary Clinton came out against it, this is pure shit.

  25. V says:

    No I totally get your point (and I actually get the difference between a conceptual art piece and a death threat)but I know lizard isn’t going to provide any evidence on his own behalf, so I figured I’d provide something he was probably talking about. Instead of, you know, vague obnoxiousness.

  26. Geezer says:

    One definition of a troll: Failure to engage in honest debate, relying instead on “look at what you did at this or that point in the past.” Which explains the majority of lizard’s contributions here. He’s a typical Republican onanist (look it up in Genesis).

  27. Progressive Mom says:

    There’s enough of a market for materials that support the killing of an American President that whole web addresses are devoted to the t-shirts, mugs, bumper stickers, etc.

    But what Lizard got this thread to talk about is how someone — some ONE — was mean to George Bush.

    Amazing. Just amazing.

    It’s always about the persecuted Republicans. Every blessed thread comes back to the persecuted Republicans.

    Has Lizard yet explained what this means:

    Let his days be few.
    Let another take his office.
    Let his children be fatherless
    Let his wife be a widow.

    Does he support it? Do any of the conservatives, who come here daily to change the dialogue in the thread to be all about how terrible the president is and how persecuted they are, support this?

    I’d like to know.

  28. nemski says:

    lizard gives troll’s a bad name.

  29. MJ says:

    Wow, DD, I don’t know where to begin. I think that what you call the Old Testament, what I call the Torah, has a lot of meaning in my life. My view on what you’ve written is that basically evangelicals, like Dumbass David, have perverted the “OT” for years to justify their hate for anyone who doesn’t fit their vision of what America should be. Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, pagans, agnostics, anthiests, gays – none of us have a place in their vision of America.

    Coming from an Orthodox Jewish background, I was taught that G-D was good and merciful, even if he destroyed the enemies of his Chosen People. For example, He gave Pharoh so many chances to free the Israelites, yet Pharoh didn’t act until the 10th Plague befell Egypt. If you want to throw out the “OT” and “fling it into the recycle bin” then you are condemning an entire people to destroy their scripture and their beliefs. And if you do that, then you’re inviting the destruction of those people.

    I think you know me. I am by no means someone who “believe(s) in a
    G-D that is giant dick, who condones and actually encourages murder, slavery and genocide, who believes that some of His own children that He created in His own image are actually abominations destined for eternal flame.” My problem is with those teabagging, Bible-thumping dickwads, like David, who try to interpret what G-D wants and use the “OT” as their battle plan. Better to condemn them instead of condemning an entire people’s scripture that is the basis for their beliefs and way of life.

  30. Me too.

    I’d also like to hear that answer from David Anderson and Mike Protack.

  31. a.price says:

    h, no one is forcing YOU to take responsibility. everyone has a moral and civil obligation to try and prevent violence…. isnt that what W’s terrorist hotline was meant for? or was that really just a witch hunt technique to get us all to mistrust each other….. i think you protest too much h. If you want to lazily sit by while the right wing whips itself into a murderous frenzy, that will be on YOUR soul.

    Zen, while i agree with you that the old testament should not be totally thrown out (it would leave jews with no doctrine of faith…. i was considering calling DD a nazi jew-hater…. as a joke) i see his point. the Torah has been mistranslated and bastardized to serve fundamentalist christian needs for as long as there has been a NEW testament. Most of what is written in ANY christian bible is so mistranslated, the moral of the story… what you are SUPPOSED to get from it, has changed to fit THEIR beliefs… changing the word of God? yep they do it.

    now, far be it for ME to get all dogmatic…. i dont think God cares WHAT books you read or rituals you practice or what name you want to call God… all that matters is that you are a good person who lives to enrich all of humanity in some way, no matter how smalls.
    These “good Christians” who shun the poor, call for the death…. or murder of the president, who call Islam evil and tolorate (in public at least) Jews….. these people who call women who have to make a horrible choice “whores” while they themselves turn their own spawn into the next generation of hate mongers…. no matter how many verses they can quote, there is a special place in hell for them.

    let his children be fatherless
    let his wife be a widow…..
    why the hell should they get any say whatsoever in policy? they have proven then want to contribute nothing but hate. screw em.

  32. a.price says:

    you wont. they will either say “what people choose to do is their freedom of speech” the classic handwashing. the republican party IS a hate group now. they have purified their soul…. so to speak. If they arent speaking out against this, the assumption must be made that they support it. Mr Protack, as a voter i have to ask… do you support this?

  33. MJ says:

    Why does Jon Ensign need an OB-GYN? Is he a hermaphodite? Or was Billy Crystal really telling his story back in 1978 –

  34. pandora says:

    It’s classic. When Republicans say and do hateful things it’s all about “personal responsibility” and the “lone wolf” excuse. When anyone else does or says something hateful they are part of a jihad. Everybody got it?

  35. Delaware Dem says:

    To MJ:

    Yeah, something I did not think about in writing this is the Jewish faith, which is based on the Torah, which is the Old Testament. Indeed, I write this from a perspective of being a New Testament follower.

    The difference I think between Jews and Evangelicals is interpretation. Evangelicals take the Old Testament literally. And from my experience with my Jewish friends, the Jewish faith and people do not. Certainly the Jewish faith does not believe in genocide and slavery. Other aspects of the Old Testament that I speak of you will have to address with respect to the Jewish faith.

    But I am certainly not intending to invite the destruction of the Jewish people when I say throw out the Old Testament.

  36. a.price says:

    or so you say…. Jews dont fit into DD’s (and obama’s) view of socialist america.

  37. MJ says:

    DD – didn’t think so and didn’t interpret it that way. I think that any evangelical should watch this movie – – before they start interpreting the Bible. And if they’re not fluent in Aramaic, they shouldn’t even attempt the OT.

  38. lizard says:

    Jud’s email sure did stir up the kooks:

    Dear Friends,

    Some folks I know, Mike and Susan, were in Pigeon Forge, TN over the week end. They left to come home this past Sunday. Traffic was moving slow and a car in front of them had an Obama bumper sticker on it. It read: “Pray for Obama. Psalm 109:8”.

    Mike’s Bible was lying on the back seat, and he got it; opened it up to the scripture, and then read it. He started laughing and laughing. Then he read it to his wife Susan who was driving. When he told me about it, I couldn’t believe what it said. I had a good laugh, too…….!
    Psalm 109:8

    “May his days be few; and let another take his office. ”


    geee nuthin there about widows and orphans??

    oh that’s right,” all so cleverly leave off the t-shirts and bumper stickers”

    I get it, Del Dem has a secret decoder ring and is letting us know that while “the right” didn’t say kill Obama, but that’s what they ment.

  39. lizard says:

    to soothe fears of the moonbats, let me add:

    Do not fear the Lizard Army, we are a force for good.

    We oppose the use of force to bring political change in America.
    We do not pray for or plot death to any pollitician.

  40. cassandra_m says:

    Too bad you don’t know how to use the google, lizzie.

    Better get back to your fry station — this is your busy part of the day!

  41. a.price says:

    they wont care MJ. anything that runs counter to their insane and violent belief system, no matter how good a point it makes….. ESPECIALLY if it makes a good point, is written off as evil and the work of Satan. And as far as learning Aramaic? well the people who killed Jesus spoke Aramaic…English is the only true holy language. These people cannot be reached. They live in America. They are much different from other violent sects of religions because radical Islam, Judaism (yeah it exists), Hinduism, etc…. they recruit from poor parts of the world… places where violence is already the norm. Fundamentalist Christians in America come from wealthy backgrounds comparatively and would turn a peaceful prosperous country into a violent war torn one just to advance their agenda.

  42. Delaware Dem says:

    Lizard, you are a motherf*cking idiot.

    I plainly said that you have to read the next freaking sentence after Psalms 109:8, which would of course be, to any human being with a pea for a brain, be 109:9.

    109:8 Let his days be few; [and] let another take his office.

    109:9 Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow.

  43. MJ says:

    Gecko – you dickwad. Did you even read the original post. “BUT LET’S READ THE NEXT VERSE THAT FOLLOWS PSALM 109:8.”

    You are such a fucktard. Begone or I’ll sick my flying monkeys on you.

  44. a.price says:

    lizard you still havent explained that psalm. are you people altering the word of God? is the psalm not good enough? you need to alter it to make it relevant? If you flat out disagree with it, just say so…unless you are afraid to speak out against your own insane ilk….. but calling people moonbats for coming to a reasonable conclusion based on the facts and the historical behavior of the Insane Christian Right is just disingenuous and only serves to affirm the belief that you people either have no awareness of your own kind, or you DO and give yourselves just enough deniability so you can sleep at night when someone is killed by your movement.

  45. V says:

    so lizard’s argument is they’re not using the bible to incite violence, they’re just lazy. They’re that guy that skims the email and then doesn’t answer your question (as shown by the lack of reading comprehension regarding the post). They’re just too LAZY to be bothered to read the stuff RIGHT NEXT TO WHAT THEY’RE QUOTING that contradicts their point, or makes them look bad, or maybe is just in poor taste because it sounds like you want the president to die. got it.

    isn’t sloth a sin?

  46. RSmitty says:

    OK, I just skipped over most of the rage going on in these comments…

    I don’t know DD, being subtle is NOT a strong suit of those to whom you direct your disapproval. For them to cite one verse, but be sneaky and hope more verses are taken to be part of the context is a tad too subtle for their ilk. One thing they don’t know how to do is hide their intentions. I’m not saying you’re wrong, but do consider you are now counting on them doing something they totally suck at and that’s to be subtle.

    Imagine that, I just inadvertently defended them by insulting them. Neat.

  47. Progressive Mom says:

    Interesting interpretation, RS.

    I thought they 109:8’ers were trying to be Biblically sneaky, not lazy. I thought it was more like: gee, the heathens don’t know the Psalms, and certainly don’t read the Good Book, so let’s have this private laugh on them!

    But perhaps they were just lazy. It’s a nicer interpretation than mine. In which they are willfully abusing the word of God to be nasty. And publicly praying for the death (or murder) of an American President.

  48. Delaware Dem says:

    And that might be. They are not subtle, for being subtle requires intelligence.

  49. RSmitty says:

    They are not subtle, for being subtle requires intelligence.

    Well, maybe not so much that, but it does require tactfulness and patience, both of which don’t exist in that mindset. Basically, they want it now and couldn’t give a rat’s ass how they get it.

  50. Progressive Mom says:

    Lizard, thank you for answering the question. I assume, however, that you are an army of one, and speak only for that army.

    BTW, as for the “nuttin in there about widows and orphans): lizard is definitely not dumb. He does this frequently: when cornered by facts, pretend the facts aren’t there; force someone to prove more facts; or play conservative victim. And it’s not just lizard: it happens over and over on these threads.

    Perhaps DL could pick a day or a thread now and again that is designated free of this psuedo-drama. We would all pledge not to answer any post, troll or otherwise, that went off topic or into victimhood or into that feigned self-righteousness that another conservative here often uses to push threads off-topic.

  51. pandora says:

    Isn’t this the same group that thought Billy Joel’s Allentown was a glowing tribute?

  52. Delaware Dem says:

    LOL, remember when President Reagan announced that Springsteen’s “Born in the USA” was a great patriotic American song of hope, and someone said to him, “Uh, Mr. President, have you ever listened to the lyrics?”

  53. anon says:

    Or when Reagan’s Sec of Interior banned the Beach Boys from playing on the Mall because they were DFHs.

  54. a.price says:

    that is a nice thought PM, i just think ass hats like RWR and Lizard … and if any other TeaBag Terror party member caught wind of the plan, would say extra crazy shit just to try and upset the peace deal. Far as im concerned this is our blog (well, technically jason’s blog, but it is for the liberals in delaware) we cant let the second rise of the confederacy spout their ignorant hate speech unchecked. It would embolden the terrorists 😉

  55. Progressive Mom says:

    AP — they’d say “extra” crazy shit? You mean there’s more?!

  56. V says:

    yeah i bet they would. if they knew we were ignoring them and wouldn’t answer we’d get stuff like

    “liberals eat aborted fetuses”
    “a 2 year old Obama was the second gunman in the JFK assassination”

    until one of us finally cracked and paid attention to them. Because ultra conservatives have a lot in common with toddlers.

  57. a.price says:

    i didnt think there was anything past the birthers… but now we have “people” actually trawling for assassins. I really wish the confederacy would jsut re succeed and take Utah, Alaska, and Idaho with them. Un-american faux-christian d-bags.

  58. xstryker says:

    My general position is that anyone who wants to live by the Old Testament has an obligation to stop eating shellfish. But more importantly, if you want to understand the Old Testament as Jesus understood it, you have to read the Talmud or at least listen to the teachings of those that do.

    Jews revere the old testament but we don’t offer burnt sacrifices or condemn those who are left-handed. We’ve known for millenia that you can’t take a shallow reading and simpy decide to be literal when it is convenient for you. Unsurprisingly, where Christian Conservatives fail is their lack of actual scholarship. And keep in mind, the only part of the Old Testament that carries the divine weight of commandent (mitzvah) is the Torah. The Haftorah and the Writings (Psalms are in the Writings) are history and poetry, respectively, and are of human origin (traditionally attributed largely to David, but not entirely). For a balanced Christian view, check out this article from the Catholic encyslopedia. The thing I like about Catholicism is that they respect scholarship with regards to Biblical understanding and pay close attention to the Jewish interpretations and hebrew translation before reaching a conclusion.

  59. Von Cracker says:

    i don’t see much difference between that bumper sticker and the intention of the “flowery” language Osama uses during his tape releases.

    weak-minded people relying on bullshit jedi mindtrick tactics to stay relevant politically and culturally, that’s all it is. Both have zero practical, reality-based solutions on today’s issues, so they fall back on voodoo and wishful thinking.

  60. Ergonomic says:


  61. RSmitty says:

    Oh, look Ergo…you changed your comment, now so will I! 😛

    I guess this indicates you realized what VC was saying!

  62. pandora says:

    Ha! I thought the same thing, Smitty. VC rocks! And ergonomic is quick!

  63. Von Cracker says:

    just stating the obvious. 😉

    what did he originally say?

  64. pandora says:

    He missed your point – quite innocently. Have I ever said how much I love the edit button?

  65. Von Cracker says:

    heh – i misunderstand some people all the time!

    and the edit button is the best blog invention ever, of course!

  66. a.price says:

    This all gives me a good idea. Condemning people who are left handed… or wear glasses… anything the old testament makes mention of in a negative light.
    Lets start protesting “God Hates Lefties” (handed, not politically)
    “God Hates 4-eyes” Hold protests outside of conservative eye doctor’s practices. publish the names and address of people who sell glasses, or make left handed tools. If the entire Hate wing bases it;s whole existence on ONE line, this should be a walk in the park! DEMAND people who follow the bible sell us their daughters, or stone their wives for small infractions. lets get old testament on their asses!
    im really not kidding here, lets do it. Ive had it with these “people” hijacking God to justify hostility toward people they think are icky. time to fight bullshit with bullshit. who’s with me?

  67. RSmitty says:

    VC – He/she (is it a spec? nobody knows, partical man. Sorry, I digress) called you a dirty, far-right-conservative republican.
    OK, no he/she didn’t. It was a misunderstanding of the intent of the use of the name Osama, whether it was literal or to imply someone else. Obviously, it was quickly corrected upon divine enlightenment. Wait, I can’t say that…upon divine self-pondering enlightenment.

  68. RSmitty says:

    “God Hates Lefties” (handed, not politically)

    I think Ned Flanders will be quite offended. Shame on you.

  69. Von Cracker says:

    well just to clarify, the intent of Osama’s (and his followers) language on his jeeeehad porn tapes is no different than these members of the American Taliban and their sloganeering (wink, wink).

    just no difference whatsoever, except for the implicitness on the jesus side….at least the geehaddies have the stones to explicitly state what they want to happen in their name, unlike the punks who hide behind trippin’ scribes from eons ago.

  70. a.price says:

    Ned Flanders is clearly a godless heathen.

  71. D.C. says:

    So, according to your logic, should we be doing away with the Koran as well?

  72. a.price says:

    it would sure help Sarah the Twit fight the ter’rists

  73. mynym says:

    Eternal hellfire awaits them all.

    I thought you were against* the Old Testament and so on?

    Indeed, I enjoy the ironic image of those “religious” conservatives shoveling ash in Hell with the likes of Pol Pot, Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin…

    It’s ironic that you’ve had to apologize for proto-Nazi tendencies in the past and yet now you’re condemning the tradition and history of “wandering goat herders” and so on as the Nazis put it.

    No, today I will turn my ire against the Old Testament of the Bible, the text that provides these “religious” conservatives with their murderous ideas in the first place. Let me ask you a question.
    Has any other book been responsible for more death and destruction over the last 5,000 years that this one?

    You might as well just call it the “Jewish influence” and seek to censor it, given how dangerous it supposedly is:

    13. The National Church demands immediate cessation of the publishing and dissemination of the Bible in Germany. (The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich: A History of Nazi Germany
    by William L. Shirer (Simon and Schuster) 1990 :23)

    All sorts of depravity are justified by its text. Slavery….

    And yet history shows that abolitionists were inspired by biblical patterns:

    Familiarity with that great story of redemption, when God raised up the slave-born Moses to deliver His chosen people from bondage, and with that sublimer story where our Saviour died a cruel death that all men, without distinction of race, might be saved, makes slavery impossible. Because Christians are in the minority there is no reason for renouncing Christianity, or for surrendering to the false religions….
    –Charles Sumner, abolitionist and one of the founders of the Republican Party

    To this day, David Anderson opposes homosexuality simply because the Old Testament says it is an abomination.

    Anyone who recognizes that men and women are distinct and complementary may oppose sexual disorientations, as that’s generally the point of Jewish traditions:

    Most of the [Judaic] rules of the law of holiness relate to the basic categories of the natural world and of human experience. Such categories as the living and the dead; mortal and divine; human and animal; air, sea, and land; male and female; past, present and future are common to most peoples. They provide a framework of basic ‘natural’ categories that render the universe meaningful. What is peculiar to the Jewish people is that these natural categories are also moral categories and anything that is ambiguous or threatens to blur the boundaries of these categories is treated as abominable.
    (Sexual Taboos and Social Boundaries by Christie Davies
    American Journal of Sociology,
    Vol. 87, No.5, Mar., 1982 :1032-1063)

    To this day, people use its text to justify their wrongful behavior. Revenge is justified by the Old Testament. Discrimination is justified by the Old Testament. Hatred is justified by the Old Testament.

    If you were really concerned about hatred and discrimination you would be dealing with your own instead of projecting it onto others.

    I am content to follow the New Testament and his commandment that we love rather than hate each other.

    Lol… Bullshit.

    *For those interested in the unfathomable stupidity typical to proto-Nazis with respect to tolerance here is a historical example:

    Pound complained that whereas polytheistic cultures were pluralistic, monotheism asserted one “universal truth” for everyone.’ He blamed Jewish monotheism for the West’s “intolerance, monopoly, and uniformity.”’
    The irony of a fascist attacking intolerance becomes most grotesque in Mein Kampf. Hitler has been arguing that opposing positions must not be tolerated; he then backpedals, remembering the notion that intolerance comes from the Jews:
    ‘The objection may very well be raised that such phenomena in world history [the necessity of intolerance] arise for the most part from specifically Jewish modes of thought, in fact, that this type of intolerance and fanaticism positively embodies the Jewish nature. [and the Old Testament]
    This may be a thousand times true; we may deeply regret this fact and establish with justifiable loathing that its appearance in the history of mankind is something that was previously alien to history—yet this does not alter the fact that this condition is with us today.’
    In other words, the Jews with their absolute morality invented intolerance; therefore, they shall not be tolerated.
    (Modern Fascism: Liquidating the JudeoChristian
    Worldview by Gene Veith, 1993 (Concordia Publishing House) :46)

    Other proto-Nazi sentiments expressed here:
    “These people are disgusting pigs. …sub-human behavior. They pose a threat to the peace and stability of the nation.” And so on.

  74. a.price says:

    when they carry signs that say “we came unarmed…. this time” or pray for obama’s children to be “fatherless” .. they reveal themselves as violent people with one goal… and it isnt to make the whole country better. and dont ever call me a nazi again.

  75. Ergonomic says:

    Ahhh my beloved public.
    I have returned to the minor fray and flap that I created, to say, “all is well, and all manner of things should be well”.

    Wait – does this mean I have a gift for politics???

    Yes, I was wrong. It happened at least once before. 🙂
    Sorry VC.
    I *despise* it when people make up slurs on a person’s name.
    WHich I realize you were not doing.

    No – no gift for politics.
    I just admitted I was wrong and apologized.

  76. lizard says:

    What does Psalm 109 mean…

    It is a prayer for vengance, King David of Isreal is praying to God to destroy his (David’s) enemies, and to do it so thuroughly as to make an example of them.

    1 Hold not thy peace, O God of my praise;

    2 for the mouth of the wicked and the mouth of the deceitful are opened against me:
    they have spoken against me with a lying tongue.

    3 They compassed me about also with words of hatred;
    and fought against me without a cause.

    4 For my love they are my adversaries:
    but I give myself unto prayer.

    5 And they have rewarded me evil for good,
    and hatred for my love.

    6 Set thou a wicked man over him:
    and let Satan stand at his right hand.

    7 When he shall be judged, let him be condemned:
    and let his prayer become sin.

    8 Let his days be few;
    and let another take his office. Acts 1.20

    9 Let his children be fatherless,
    and his wife a widow.

    10 Let his children be continually vagabonds, and beg:
    let them seek their bread also out of their desolate places.

    11 Let the extortioner catch all that he hath;
    and let the strangers spoil his labor.

    12 Let there be none to extend mercy unto him:
    neither let there be any to favor his fatherless children.

    13 Let his posterity be cut off;
    and in the generation following let their name be blotted out.

    14 Let the iniquity of his fathers be remembered with the LORD;
    and let not the sin of his mother be blotted out.

    15 Let them be before the LORD continually,
    that he may cut off the memory of them from the earth.

    16 Because that he remembered not to show mercy,
    but persecuted the poor and needy man,
    that he might even slay the broken in heart.

    17 As he loved cursing,
    so let it come unto him:
    as he delighted not in blessing,
    so let it be far from him.

    18 As he clothed himself with cursing like as with his garment,
    so let it come into his bowels like water,
    and like oil into his bones.

    19 Let it be unto him as the garment which covereth him,
    and for a girdle wherewith he is girded continually.

    20 Let this be the reward of mine adversaries from the LORD,
    and of them that speak evil against my soul.

    21 But do thou for me, O GOD the Lord, for thy name’s sake:
    because thy mercy is good, deliver thou me.

    22 For I am poor and needy,
    and my heart is wounded within me.

    23 I am gone like the shadow when it declineth:
    I am tossed up and down as the locust.

    24 My knees are weak through fasting;
    and my flesh faileth of fatness.

    25 I became also a reproach unto them:
    when they looked upon me they shook their heads. Mt. 27.39 · Mk. 15.29

    26 Help me, O LORD my God:
    O save me according to thy mercy:

    27 that they may know that this is thy hand;
    that thou, LORD, hast done it.

    28 Let them curse, but bless thou:
    when they arise, let them be ashamed;
    but let thy servant rejoice.

    29 Let mine adversaries be clothed with shame;
    and let them cover themselves with their own confusion, as with a mantle.

    30 I will greatly praise the LORD with my mouth;
    yea, I will praise him among the multitude.

    31 For he shall stand at the right hand of the poor,
    to save him from those that condemn his soul.

    for a line by line study try here:

  77. pandora says:

    Lookie, lookie, Lizard posted a link, which means – from here on out – any more linkless cut and pasting will be deleted.

    I’m so proud of you.

  78. Ergonomic says:

    Awwww …
    My levity got eclipsed by lines and lines of Hebrew Poetry that confirm that we really have not changed much in thousands of years …
    Can’t anyone just have a laugh anymore??

  79. V says:

    why haven’t we latched onto 109:10.

    Malia and Sasha as “vagabonds”

    (sorry, “vagabond” is a funny word. say it. Vagabond)

  80. Von Cracker says:

    No worries, Ergo, Osama/Obama – shit, mircosoft spellcheck even gets it wrong!

  81. Ergonomic says:

    hee hee hee
    Tomato/Tomato …
    Oh wait, we’d have to actually be talking …
    maybe, Potato/Potato …
    No not that one either.

    Sorry, it was getting way too “Old Testament” in here for me …

  82. Von Cracker says:

    can you make a house out of brimstone?

  83. mynym says:

    when they carry signs that say “we came unarmed…. this time” or pray for obama’s children to be “fatherless” .. they reveal themselves as violent people with one goal… and it isnt to make the whole country better. and dont ever call me a nazi again.

    You’re merely seeking out proto-Nazi sentiments real and imagined in order to justify your own “bullshit” as you put it. Your sentiments about subhuman pigs who threaten the peace of the nation will continue to be proto-Nazi whether anyone calls them that or not. All you need to do is include some pseudo-scientific means of eliminating them in an environmental or healthcare plan and the process will be complete.

    Given the level of paranoid delusions and imbecility typical to proto-Nazis your attitudes about the Old Testament are not surprising:

    A Dr. Reinhardt Krause, the Berlin district leader of the sect, proposed the abandonment of the Old Testament, “with its tales of cattle merchants and pimps” and the revision of the New Testament with the teaching of Jesus “corresponding entirely with the demands of National Socialism.”
    (The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich: A History of Nazi Germany
    by William Shirer :237)

    Whatever you say of the teachings of the Christ and loooove will correspond entirely with whatever your politics demands:

    The party stands on the basis of Positive Christianity, and Positive Christianity is National Socialism . . . National Socialism is the doing of God’s will . . . God’s will reveals itself in German blood . . . Dr. Zoellner and Count Galen have tried to make clear to me that Christianity consists in faith in Christ as the Son of God. That makes me laugh . . . No, Christianity is not dependent upon the Apostle’s Creed . . . True Christianity is represented by the party, and the German people are now called by the party and especially by the Fuehrer to a real Christianity . . .
    (Ib. :239)

    And to the extent it does not, it will be done away with as well. E.g.

    ‘The endeavors of this organization and its leading men such as Prof. Grundmann are well meant. But there is no interest either in assimilating (angleichen) Christian teaching in national socialism or in proving that a re-shaped (umgestaltetes) Christianity is not fundamentally Jewish (keine judische Grundhaltung aufweist).’
    On a specific occasion, even a more negative attitude was revealed. When several persons of the Ministry of Propaganda were invited to a meeting of the Institute in Berlin on January 15, 1942, at which Professors Grundmann and Werdermann were to lecture, a high official of the Ministry noted in pencil on the invitation: ‘If such lectures at present are considered desirable at all, they should be watched.’
    (Hitler’s Professors: The Part of Scholarship in
    Germany’s Crimes Against the Jewish People by Max Weinreich
    (New York:The Yiddish Scientific Institute, 1946) : 67)

  84. mynym says:

    I’m curious as to what this meant: These “good Christians” who shun the poor, call for the death…. or murder of the president, who call Islam evil and tolorate (in public at least) Jews….

    Your supposed concern with Christian charity is false, your dear leader is safe, Islam is often evil and Jews should be tolerated.

    Here is an interesting contrast to your pattern of thought on Islam:

    National Socialism cannot be understood unless it is seen “as a new Islam, its myth as a new Allah, and Hitler as this new Allah’s prophet.” It is a church, although a very secular one, of which to be a member means to affirm its principles “in the form of faith, of mysticism and fanaticism.” If it exhibits, therefore, “all the characteristics of an ‘anti-church’ fundamentally hostile to Christianity,” then it must become evident, by the way in which the church of Jesus Christ confesses its faith, that the Christian rule of faith and life and the National Socialist rule of faith and life are mutually exclusive. No peace is possible between confessing to Jesus Christ and accepting the sovereignty of National Socialism. It follows, then, that “the church may and should pray for the suppression and casting out of National Socialism, just in the same sense as in former times and when confronted by a similar danger she prayed for the ‘destruction of the bulwarks of the false prophet Mohammed.’”
    This argument formed the basic content of a lecture by Barth before a meeting of the Swiss Evangelical Organization of Help for the Confessional Church in Germany on December 5, 1938. It was therefore presented in support of the Confessional churches of Germany, whose fight for the independence of the church from Nazi politics and Nazi views has attracted the attention of the entire world.
    (National Socialism and Christianity: Can They Be Reconciled?
    by Wilhelm Pauck
    The Journal of Religion, Vol. 20, No. 1. (Jan., 1940), pp. 15-17)

  85. a. price says:

    Im speaking about the church threatening to cut off aid to the poor in Washington if they don’t outlaw gay marriage. Im also talking about the psalm 109ers. I KNOW obama is safe… he has the best security force in the world. That doesn’t make praying for his death any less disgusting.

    and Islam is often EVIL? Jews should be “tolerated”? like a plantar wart? you prove my point by your obvious hate speech. and that tripe you used to “make a point” is just more false arch conservunist doctrine from an “expert” used to justify irrational fear and hate. fail.