ABC News Blogs ^ | November 2, 2009 | Jake Tapper
You can tell that the White House isn’t expecting such a great election day — Democrats are down in recent polls in the governor’s races in both Virginia and New Jersey — both by how much officials are insisting the outcomes have no relevance to the President and how much they’re trying to change focus to the conservative in-fighting in the special election for an upstate New York congressional seat. The White House is setting the stage for a bad day tomorrow, pre-spinning any losses as irrelevant. On Friday White House press secretary Robert Gibbs said, “Whatever the results are,…

Oh, goodie, we’ll start here.

If the sequence of points is essential to our understanding of them, we start with point 1. That is “America is good.” This establishes this as a list where the primary concern is our responsibilities to our secular government. Not surprisingly, Jesus addressed that directly. There are three iterations of the story in the most commonly used U.S. Bibles, since it appears in Matthew, Mark, and Luke, so we can assume that the church fathers considered it an important point. I’ll quote the whole story, for folks who’d like to follow us along at home.

Matthew 22:15-22 (King James Version)

15Then went the Pharisees, and took counsel how they might entangle him in his talk.

16And they sent out unto him their disciples with the Herodians, saying, Master, we know that thou art true, and teachest the way of God in truth, neither carest thou for any man: for thou regardest not the person of men.

17Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not?

18But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites?

19Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.

20And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?

21They say unto him, Caesar’s. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s.

22When they had heard these words, they marvelled, and left him, and went their way.

So, by selecting “America is good.” as the primary point, Beck has made the secular world, Caesar’s world, the reference for the list, just as Jesus used the denari as the standard for answering the question. Beck, in fact, plants himself quite firmly as a man who is criticizing GOVERNMENT, and his reference to things spiritual is ancillary, except when it suits his political purposes.

Therefore, and according to your own “logic”, point one, the ‘goodness’ of America, is the control of all subsequent points. It’s placed above God. The conflict still exists between 2 and 4, however, because for a Christian, neither spouse can be “the ultimate authority”, both being subservient to God. We have already established by Mr. Beck’s list that God is subservient to America’s goodness.

See a problem, yet?

“That is aimed at government interference not God. That is just puzzling as an attempt at a rebuttal.”

Government cannot ‘interfere’ where it has already been given jurisdiction.

“Where in Acts does it refer to anyone being forced by the government to give or even forced by the Church which is a voluntary membership organization?”

Is Acts the only book of the Bible? Because the Bible is just jam-packed with examples of the government ‘forcing people to give’ via taxes and mandatory service. A few high-lights…

Luke 2

 1And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be taxed.
 2(And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.)
 3And all went to be taxed, every one into his own city.
 4And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David:)
 5To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child.
 6And so it was, that, while they were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered.
 7And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.

Matthew 9:9-13 

 9And as Jesus passed forth from thence, he saw a man, named Matthew, sitting at the receipt of custom: and he saith unto him, Follow me. And he arose, and followed him.
 10And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples.
 11And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners?
 12But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.
 13But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

There is ZERO Biblical evidence that Jesus supported either the building of wealth, or its concentration in the religious structure of his time. NONE. That was an essential issue in his worsening relationship with the Pharisees. He interfered with their fundraising. He was quite clear than an obsession with tax resistance or a resentment of the people who collected taxes even though they are defined as sinners is not part of His agenda, at all. It’s Caesar who cares about that, not Christ.

It’s Beck who cares about that.

“It is like you did not even read point 7 which says,’I work hard for what I have and I will share it with who I want to…. ” not that I will not share.”

This point is out of sequence, but I will deal with it, anyway. By choosing to be part of a Democracy, you have chosen a method for setting governmental priorities. You have a right (and I would consider, an obligation) to make sure your priorities are considered when the decisions are made. And if you want to say, “I don’t like feeding the hungry through my taxes, I’ll donate all that to a food bank, instead” say it as often as you like, and try to convince other people to go along with you. It has been my personal observation that most people do not support charity to any significant extent, and that government performs a valuable service in routing money to organizations (including government departments, flawed as they are) that provide needed support to JUST the kind of people Jesus had dinner with. It works for me, and *I* will continue to say so.

“The sixth value in fact is charity.

As for Acts 4 and 5, the charity was voluntary. St. Peter reiterated that in the case of lying Ananias. In Acts 5:4, The great Apostle said, While it remained was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your control?

The Church did not even ask for the money, let alone require it.”

I have gone on too long here to give a full account of the many reasons I disagree with this ridiculous, shallow and self-serving read of Ananias and Sapphira, one of my favorite New Testament stories. It will suffice to say that if I saw that the only members of my community who did NOT give the full sale price of their house to the Church were stricken stone dead, I would not be looking at my contribution as “voluntary” and I doubt I’d be alone in that. Modern folks like to talk about this as an issue of ‘lying’. I’m LOL. To believe that is to believe that no one lied about anything until it HAPPENED to involve turning over large assets to the Church. Right.

“Maybe someone else will tell me what they hate about values shared by 93% of Americans and most of the world. You agree with them. You just hate that Beck is the one who put them in one package.”

We hate that Beck presumes to use Scriptures that are respected as part of the heritage of Western Civilization, if not actually revered as religious texts, to advance his puerile agenda.

That’s a different issue.

Go Brooke!

You also have to wonder about people who need to get their “values” from a TV entertainer. These are the same people who tut tut over kids being too influenced by the hip hop artists they see on TV.

Actually, most people of faith believe that their deity, or his/her agent, put them in one package.

For me, it’s called the Bible. Not the Beck.

As for Acts 4 and 5, the charity was voluntary. St. Peter reiterated that in the case of lying Ananias. In Acts 5:4, The great Apostle said, While it remained was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your control?

The Church did not even ask for the money, let alone require it.

Maybe someone else will tell me what they hate about values shared by 93% of Americans and most of the world. You agree with them. You just hate that Beck is the one who put them in one package.

Thanks
CinqueB

You see, it’s possible for people, even people attempting to live by Christian Scripture, to ask themselves “Who needs Glen Beck to write up a list for my spiritual guidance when I have The Lord’s Prayer and the Sermon on the Mount?”

This is a list which conflates, in a way that is offensive to me personally, a very narrow, and, I believe, essentially Un-Christian fundamentalism with a vicious and ignorant streak of American exceptionalism that is an affront to our Founding Fathers and every sincere patriot since.

It’s revolting,

The fact that ANYONE would sign on to it is enough to mark them as unfit for governance, and one of you lily-livered so called conservatives should grow a pair and say so.

*settles hat*