Down With Tyranny Evaluates John Carney
…with help from Progressive Democrats of Delaware and Delaware Liberal contributors. The writer here also runs the Blue Progressive PAC and was looking for some input from the locals on John Carney’s progressive cred. You can see the full blog post over at Down With Tyranny here. The key evaluation comes from Rebecca, I think:
John is a solid Democrat with solid Democratic values. Having said that, he’s also a pragmatist. He won’t let perfection get in the way of progress. He got pretty beaten up at the last Progressive Dems for Delaware meeting and he never did disavow the Blue Dogs– at least that’s what I heard. His reply was along the lines of what I said above. He’s willing to take incremental steps forward if that’s all he can realistically get. John will never be like Rep. Grayson from Florida, but he is solid on his progressive values, and he knows how to work legislation. On the other hand, his campaign style is very centrist. I guess he feels safe there.
DWT also gets to something pretty key about John Carney’s current presentation to the world — neither his website or his Facebook page are really set up to tell you much about him or his positions yet. Maybe it is early, but once Castle announces, I would hope that someone around him would remind him that he is defacto on the national stage. I really hope that this data gets beyond the boilerplate soon.
Tags: DE-AL, John Carney
I think Carney needs a little more work as a candidate. He was very knowledgeable about the health care reform bill but not quite as knowledgeable as some of the PDD members. He was a little too wordy at times, but that’s an affliction of many politicians. I would have liked to have heard a really tight “elevator pitch.”
One thing he said many times was that he had a “passion for public service” and you could tell that was true. I just felt that he couldn’t quite separate himself from the corporate wing of the party.
The biggest plus that he had was that he actually listened to what you were saying. Not just listened, but listened and understood what you were saying. I think that would be a great asset as a Congressman. I hope that he would continue that when he gets into office.
I did like him quite a lot and I think he will be a great Congressman. I just wish he was bolder.
“I did like him quite a lot and I think he will be a great Congressman. I just wish he was bolder.”
I did my share of busting on Carney and one of my nick names for him was, “Minner’s pool boy.” He was loyal to her but stayed to close to her shadow. Carney was the sacrificial lamb taking the fall for Minner’s mistakes.
On the education front Carney was more in tuned to the concerns with DSTP and in fact 100%, in the primary race of 2004 John Carney stepped up to call for an end to those 3-tiered diplomas long before Minner jumped on board. If you go online and check out the DSEA debates you’ll see him very centered position on education reform compared to Protack and Markell ( Lee did particapate). Nothing gets done until people come to the middle. However, because he stayed in Minner’s shadow way too long it did make him look weak. I made a comment that Delaware is a corporation and needed a CEO and Markell fit the order. But as you can see he doesn’t have the same empowerment. Carney didn’t write a bullshit as Jack did.
Who will Carney be upagainst? What impact will Obama’s rating have on him and all democrats next fall? If the election were today Carney would have a good chance. Who will it be, Copeland, Protack, Burris or Donviti?
Do you want Carney bold and talking shit or do you want him talking real world and find common ground?
Carney’s certainly going to be able to afford to run now.
Thanks for the payback, Jack!!
That is the mark of desperation right there — try to kill an emerging business just because its current head is running for office.
Way to go Party of Business!
I have a strong feeling this is just the beginning of the stupid from these guys.
Kill? Kill?! If John Carney doesn’t get a $350,000 crony handout from the state, his business will die?
It is unfathomable that you would double down on this type of cronyism. Surely you have some ethical standards.
How many middle-class families are getting $350,000 handouts from Jack Markell like John Carney is?
It is a loan, you idiot. Businesses all over — especially small ones — are looking for loans to expand, to create markets, to hire people.
But I imagine you are one of the Party of Business’ permanent flipper of burgers, so perhaps you really do have no idea how business works. It isn’t a giveaway like the fry machine.
Speaking of which, yours are probably up, buddy.
Your condescension is attractive.
These ‘loans’ never get paid back.
“Businesses all over — especially small ones — are looking for loans to expand, to create markets, to hire people.”
Yes, but unlike the former Lt. Governor, they’re getting turned down in droves. That’s exactly the point.
Apparently I’m not the one who needs education on the matter at hand.
Are you going to argue next that it’s a good investment for the state?
Anon that is par for the course. Democrats have turned Delaware into a crony republic.
I agree with Rebecca. Carney is particularly strong on what Joe Biden likes to talk about as “kitchen table” issues. His interest in education is strong, and, like it or not, we’re going to be seeing more education issues before Congress. Also, his use of the state park system as a key component of his youth fitness initiative is the kind of sold, pragmatic, cost-saving approach I think everyone would like to see more of in Washington.
I look forward to getting him there.
These are the same gerbils who spent their scrawny gubernatorial fund to spread the “pump-and-dump” invective against Markell – so weak that none of our courageous Republicans would own up to posting it.
Great post at “Down With Tyranny.” This was spot on:
There is a good comment over there by some chap who calls himself liberalgeek – which points out that if the DWT is looking for a Delaware Dem untainted by Carper, they are probably searching in vain.
Yes, but unlike the former Lt. Governor, they’re getting turned down in droves. That’s exactly the point.
Which is why people are turning to loan programs from states and the feds. It is not enough, but they are about the only people lending right now.
These loans from the state and the Fed do get paid back. And, in fact, most of these “loans” are in the form of loan guarantees — real banks make the loan and the state of Fed has the risk for repayment. That bank will be looking for that money of that firm won’t get another loan.
Are you going to argue next that it’s a good investment for the state?
Are you going to argue next that the state should stop its work to support small businesses?
Bet you got more fries up now, Mr. Party of Business.
“like it or not, we’re going to be seeing more education issues before Congress”
For sure with NCLB up for reauthorization and some in congress have an eye on Ducan’s spending habits. It will be a battle!
Kavips is a hell of a blogger. Check this out:
Yes, the PDD discussion with Carney got completely off-track for a while because everyone wanted to bust on Carper. This isn’t the first time either, at an Executive Committee meeting last month one of Carper’s staffers got the same treatment. We would have been there for hours if they hadn’t closed that particular discussion. I really hope Carper is getting the message. It’s not just progressives that are upset – it’s also rank and file Democrats.
Did the message happen to come on top of a big pile of money? No. Then Carper didn’t get it.
“These loans from the state and the Fed do get paid back. And, in fact, most of these “loans” are in the form of loan guarantees — real banks make the loan and the state of Fed has the risk for repayment. That bank will be looking for that money of that firm won’t get another loan.”
I’m going to assume that you’re partisan and not just stupid. Go research how the DEDO/CDF system works, and what percentage of the loans get paid back.
“Are you going to argue next that the state should stop its work to support small businesses?”
Why would you bring that up? It has nothing to do with the administration fronting John Carney money so he can run for Congress.
“Bet you got more fries up now, Mr. Party of Business.”
Funny you should mention fries. You guys were all over that, and it wasn’t nearly as corrupt as this, and only 1/7th of the cost, for a product that’s in development and might actually happen.
Instead of being nasty and arrogant, why don’t you try and defend the loan? I know why. Because YOU CAN’T.
I always type these responses slowly for you, since I know you are stick behind the burger grill:
A loan to Carney’s business can’t be used as campaign funds.
And if you want the state to support small businesses then you need a better reason to not support this one — one at the forefront of serious technological advance and NOT making fries — then the fact that John Carney used to work for the state. Either you want small businesses to have a chance or you don’t. Either you want the government to support SBs or you don’t.
And if you had any data showing that this program has regular loan defaults you’d show it. So we’ll still count you as an idiot and one who certainly should not be allowed anywhere near a boardroom.
You folks keep hope Carper will get the message? The message will have to be in the form of a person with issues and a message.
As for Carney, I debated with Carney and Markell and it was astonishing how severe the criticism of Carney was from Markell. Is that forgotten?
Mike Protack
“A loan to Carney’s business can’t be used as campaign funds.”
Now I know you’re just stupid. John Carney won’t be drawing a salary while he campaigns full-time for Congress?
“And if you want the state to support small businesses then you need a better reason to not support this one”
Okay. Here goes – why this loan gets laughed out of the room, or at least gets subordinated to other more productive ideas:
– The guy running the company has no business experience.
– The guy running the company will be doing something else, full-time, for the next 12 months and possibly beyond.
– The company has never made anything, has not finished engineering on what they plan to make, and is asking for the loan to “continue core operations,” which means pay their staff.
– They aim to build parts for a wind farm that may never exist.
– The company MIGHT employ people YEARS down the road, IF it is successful, which is a long shot.
– The company’s application states that part of the reason they want the loan from the state is so they can get a loan from the federal government (the next stop on the handout express).
I could go on, but only a partisan with some serious ethics problems would miss the obvious.
And to your sad little argument, I say this: “Giving $350,000 to John Carney so he can run for Congress” does not equal “supporting small business.” If the state wanted to support small business, they wouldn’t have raised every tax businesses pay in June.
DEFEND IT. Stop hurling insults, which is a refuge of the weak. DEFEND IT. Stop hiding behind your unattractive combination of ignorance and arrogance. DEFEND IT. Tell the state employees out there why John Carney gets $350,000, but they have to have their pay cut. DEFEND IT. Tell the fire companies and the senior centers why they get less money, but John Carney’s weak loan application gets approved. DEFEND IT. I don’t want to hear another word out of your pathetic mouth that doesn’t defend this decision.
heh, I wonder who all that unattributed info was from, Howie?
“Do you want Carney bold and talking shit or do you want him talking real world and find common ground?”
No. More. Carpers.
Same thing goes or Beau Biden. If he runs let’s here about how is going to run as a Democrat and not a Carper/Castle corporatists lackey. In a way, it is good that Castle got in – it forces Biden off the wishy-washy “non-partisan” bullshit.
The very heart of the issue is this – is John Carney a Bill Clinton/Tom Carper Democrat? Is he going to be a part of the corrupt “bi-partisanship” that Bob Herbert describes as supporting a Safety Net for the rich.
I don’t want to hear another word out of your pathetic mouth that doesn’t defend this decision.
All of that fry grease is getting to your brain, you moran.
I’m not going to defend this loan app since I don’t know its details. And neither do you.
What I will note that you cannot do is to come up with any logic that goes to denying a real, emerging small business — and not one that will be paying minimum wage, mind you)– genuine help to get Delaware started on being an alternative energy state. All you have is some grievance against Carney with some stupid BS about not running a business. Well, dumb ass, that would be what he is doing NOW and just so you know, there are ALOT of small businesses out there with newbies running them. But once again, you continue to demonstrate that you’ve no clue how business works or how it gets done.
You and Rep Booth are pretty desperate to see a John Carney failure at the expense of helping a real small business. This stupid bit of business is all about flop sweat on behalf of the state repubs who don’t have anyone to run.
So if you are done making breakfast sandwiches this AM, you might do yourself an favor and go figure out how high tech businesses get started and nurtured.
You’re pathetic, Cassandra. Plain and simple. Your ethics meter got turned off a long time ago.
Average people simply do not get this kind of money from the state. Ask the guy downstate who’s been trying desperately to get the state to help him implement his hydroenergy turbines in the IR Inlet. He has a legitimate product, (unlike Carney) fully engineered (unlike Carney) and proven in other markets (you get the point).
But sadly for him, he’s not John Carney. So the big bucks go not to the guy with perfected, proven technology, but to John Carney, for his unproven, unfinished, prospective technology for a wind farm that may never be built.
I have no desire to continue this with you. You have no moral compass, only partisan venom. Any objective observer can see what this is.
Well you can’t continue this, right? You have no data about loans not being repaid and you have no idea about what it takes to start up and run a high tech company. You also have no idea that this loan is not yet approved, either. The usual repub BS — when you can’t argue on data and facts, you retreat to conspiracy theories and more stupidity. Conspiracy theories, hearsay and your resentments are not an argument against a small business loan for a real business.
And as long as all you are going to do is to try to bully people to your POV with these conspiracy theories, hearsay and your resentments, it is pretty clear that not only do you have no idea how business works (a clear deficiency for the Party of Business, yes?) you are the one here with the partisan venom. Because the only reason you object to this loan is because John Carney’s company applied for it. You have no other knowledge of this transaction except that.
So it is probably time for you to get ready for the lunch burger trade, so bon appettit!
You know what? You’re right. I don’t know. So tell me.
Does every high-tech business need money from the government to start up and run?
Can you give me a list of 10 high-tech startups who have gotten $350,000 from the state before they have an engineered product to market?
Do they all get that money before they have any accomplishments to speak of? Even when their imagined product’s application is for a market that does not yet exist?
Thanks in advance for your answers.
Taking something from the argument thread above…
Ask the guy downstate who’s been trying desperately to get the state to help him implement his hydroenergy turbines in the IR Inlet…
Who is this and what is the track record of defeat? In all honesty, if this person is being squeezed and without good reason, I think it’s certainly worth putting some sunlight on it. That certainly would be better than using it simply as a weapon in an argument.
“You know what? You’re right. I don’t know. So tell me.”
So you acknowledge that you have jumped to the conclusion you have jumped to. Congratulations. I agree it smells pretty bad, anon, but one good rule is to let the opposition dig itself deeper in trying to explain it away.
Hey anon — when the lunch rush is done, you could likely answer these questions yourself, right after you dig up that data showing that state SB loans turn into grants.
Because none of those questions has a damn thing to do with the fact that you’ve gotten your righteous indignation on for something you know nothing about. Just that John Carney heads this organization applying for this loan.
And what Smitty said — with some real documentation as to why loans or other help may have been turned down. And some data on this “proven” technology. In other words, don’t show up with a cherry-picked picture.
Geezer, I was being sarcastic. I happen to be in the business finance sector. I know exactly how this works. What I was doing was exposing Cassandra’s point about how high-tech companies are formed and developed, and she performed beautifully by not answering any of the questions posed. She claimed that I didn’t know, so I asked her to educate me. She can’t, because the answer to all three questions is a resounding ‘NO.’ The way that Transformative Technologies is being funded is in no way typical and is in every way owed to the status of its principal.
By the way, my organization has never funded a startup whose President planned to be AWOL for the next 12+ months. I’d be interested to learn of others who had.
I happen to be in the business finance sector.
I doubt this very much. Because if you were you would have known that you don’t have enough data to evaluate this request. And if you really could answer those questions, you’d have quite a bit more to say than NO. But we’ll count this in with the fact that you can produce no data on the DEDO loan data, either.
But hey — there may be people here who buy your story. I doubt it, but sell what you can, man.
Hmmm. This grant (not a loan) was awarded to a company that hasn’t engineered their product yet.
and I didn’t even try very hard.
“About Analytical Biological Services, Inc. ABS is small bioscience company located in Wilmington, Del. It was founded in January 1990 by Dr. Charles Saller, president and chief executive officer. Since then, ABS has grown to serve nearly every major pharmaceutical company in the world, providing custom biological products and services for drug discovery and medical diagnostics. ABS has also maintained an in-house research program that is aimed at providing drug discovery and diagnostics technologies for researchers and medical professionals. Visit http://www.absbio.com.”
Hmmmmm. Can’t imagine why they’d give $50,000 to a 20-year-old company with an actual track record of actually making stuff.
For a product that hasn’t been developed? Why would a company that has been in business for 20 years need a grant? Hmmm.
Oh, to subsidize a product that hasn’t been engineered yet.
I am not saying that this company isn’t worthy of the grant, but if we are subsidizing outright a product clearly in development, why wouldn’t we want to provide support to a company that was asking for a loan on a product in development?
Company with outstanding track record of manufacturing products at $50,000 vs. company with no track record and a principal who’s running for Congress at $350,000.
Additionally, ABS has brought a lot of revenue to the state already in its 20 year history. Also, medicine goes into the body, not into an offshore wind farm that may never exist.
I’m honestly interested in the company with plans of hydroenergy turbines in the IR Inlet but can’t get the grant/loan to help. Who is that? On the surface (that’s all I have to go with right now), it comes off as worthy of consideration. It would be nice to know what happened, and if it isn’t a good reason as to why they were denied, then it likely will be worthy to bring it to light.
Also, medicine goes into the body, not into an offshore wind farm that may never exist.
Are you going to argue that there are no off-shore wind farms in the world? Or that Carney’s company is working on a proprietary technology that could only have application off the coast of Delaware?
RSmitty – Anon won’t produce anything. This is a ploy to say that there is unequal treatment for equal applicants.
Clearly, if a product has been engineered but is not being funded for a project on the Indian River that none of us have heard of, we aren’t really talking about jobs until such a project gets approved. So a loan to this company would actually be to support their lobbying efforts to get through the approval process.
While there is some merit to funding something like this, it is certainly not as far along in the process as off-shore wind farms here and in other locations.
I wonder if Anon has something to gain from the IR project.
Their project is the designing and manufacturing of wind towers. The cost of building a wind tower and shipping it overseas would make it non-competitive relative to the existing industry servicing Europe. In addition, the domestic manufacturing industry is not exactly unfilled. What is so special about the Delawind application that will supplant existing providers that it’s worth $350,000 of taxpayer money?
The East Coast is one of the best places in the world for offshore wind. Period. That seems to me to be a lucrative market, especially with Maryland, Delaware and New Jersey all in various stages of rolling out offshore wind production.
Oh, and it is not (for like the 4th time) taxpayer money. It is a loan from a bank. Unlike the grant I highlighted above.
So unless you have some data to backup your assertion that the loan default rate on these is unusually high, you are talking out of your ass.
“Oh, and it is not (for like the 4th time) taxpayer money. It is a loan from a bank. Unlike the grant I highlighted above.”
You can’t possibly be serious. If it was just a loan from a bank, Carney would have just gone to a bank.
How do you know he didn’t go to a bank? Even you knew that bank financing was thin on the ground, but yet you are having a conniption over this one application that you know nothing about.
I figure he knew better than to go to a bank with something like this. He knew he needed the full faith and credit of the Delaware taxpayer before anyone would touch this with a ten-foot pole.
You should probably not assume what I know and do not know.
It isn’t hard to be pretty clear about what you don’t know since you are busily documenting it here. And figuring that he didn’t go to the bank is not the same thing as knowing beyond a shadow of a doubt that he didn’t go. You have no idea what this loan is for or how Delawind came to make this application yet you are dead sure that this is a small business that shouldn’t get the time of day. And all because John Carney’s name is associated with it.
You aren’t going to get to far beyond your fry station with this kind of idiocy. And if Delaware won’t be in the business of supporting firms like this, they’ve no chance at getting to be wind technology center. And all because the partisan ignorants like you would rather this be a state full of nail salons rather than a state full of people making and servicing turbines.
DelaWind, LLC: This Wilmington based firm has applied to the Strategic fund for a $350,000 loan. The applicant is seeking these funds to continue core operations, to raise additional funding and secure Federal loan guarantees, to start sales and marketing efforts in the onshore and offshore markets, to complete wind tower design and engineering and to prepare for facilities expansion to accommodate tower fabrication.
What I would “rather see” is state resources used to boost sound companies to the next level, not create a brand-new business out of thin air for the well-connected.
If this was a Republican, you all would be beating down the door, and you know it.
Delawind already exists you moran.
And I think that if you understood the uses they’ve applied for, I think you’d be doing a lot less grandstanding here. What they’ve applied for isn’t about thin air.
And I doubt that I would be beating down the door if this was a repub for exactly the reason I keep beating your behind in this argument — I’d never get into an argument that I don’t have the data for.
“Delawind already exists you moran.”
On paper, yes. But they don’t make anything or provide any services. Without the influx of state cash, they never will. So my statement is still accurate.
“I’d never get into an argument that I don’t have the data for.”
And yet you have.
You would be the only one here grandstanding on nothing. And apparently not even smart enough to get that the argument you are having is on your lack of data or knowledge. All you know is that John Carney’s company is the applicant. And no Democrats should get SB loans, apparently.
And apparently you still haven’t understood what Delawind is looking to do with this money. Whether or not Delawind gets its loan, I’m sure there are a whole lot of SB owners reading this exchange thanking the goddesses that you are nowhere near a business loan approval process.