Question of the Early Morning
I don’t think that it is right to judge all Republicans based on the violent actions of scores of talk-radio drunk, wacko, Republican gun enthusiast, but where is the tipping point?
When does it become okay to judge Republicans based on the actions of the conservative movement’s most passionate and engaged members?
Tags: GOP, Rick Jensen
To answer the question,
At the same time it is ok to judge all muslims by the actions of the jihadists.
I guess the tipping point has been reached then.
The radical right has been doing that for years Bob.
Here is my problem for leaving Republicans like say….Mike Castle off the hook.
They never make any statement to try and walk back the rhetoric. Castle is complicit by his silence. I’d really like to hear some so called mainstream Republicans unload on the hate speech of Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and Rick Jensen that fuels these nutbags.
nemski,
I guess you expect that I both agree and would defend that. I do believe that there is no peaceful solution to groups such as the Taliban, but that is simply because they have andavowed expansionist and exclusionary position with regard to the behavior of both the devout and non-devout. I do not have that opinion of all muslims. There are extreme and unsupportable groups in most societies and faiths.
So that makes your movement’s tacit support of Republican fringe wackos okay?
I do not support those, and haven’t defended them. I don’t expect that you believe in all that fall under your tent either. I would only hope to see the same condemnation from you side of the muslim who shot those two soldiers in Little Rock.
You can’t blame an entire group for the problems of a minority. Well, you could, it just wouldn’t be right. Thats like saying the greenpeace or peta activist that vandalize or attack people should be held accountable by democrats. If that is the case, stereotypes for all!
Republicans: Hate mongers!
Democrates: Whinning pussies!
Muslims: Terrorists!
Blacks: Criminals!
Whites: Rascists!
Latinos: Lazy!
Native Americans: Drunks!
Asians: Nerds!
Germans: Nazis!
Italians: Mobsters!
Feel free to add to the list….
Blah blah blah…words words words.
That didn’t address my point one bit. You guys never attempt to walk back the rhetoric. You are complicit by your silence.
Where is the mainstream Republican saying, “We might have political differences but we are all Americans.” ?
The ‘Progressive Agenda’ seems to be rather weak.
Take the issue of ‘gun control’. This is a euphemism for incremental and unilateral victim disarmament that is offered as a panacea by politicians who fear doing anything that will harm the criminals in their constituency.
Yet where is the debate? Which side runs from it?
What about socialism? Where has it brought great prosperity to a nation? Look at the example of Eastern Europe. Before WW II, Poland had a living standard akin to that of Northern Italy and Czechoslovakia was on a par with Switzerland. How well did the people of those workers’ paradises fare under the Commissars?
No wonder that most ‘Progressives’ fear any sort of debate where they do not have absolute control over the microphone or the camera. No wonder that there is a movement to impose censorship in the name of ‘Fairness’.
Progressives control the microphone! LOL!!!! That’s why MSNBC, the only network with real liberals on it, has 3 hrs. of Joe Scarborough and has Liz Cheney as a frequent guest.
I don’t judge all Republicans by the actions the fringe. The Republicans’ problem is that they have a lot of their fringe in elected office. An the ones in elected office are afraid to make their fringe angry. You can’t say that about Democrats, they throw the left under the bus at a drop of the hat.
I don’t want ineffective government, definitely not Eastern European socialism. That’s failed. You know what else has failed – Republican-style deregulation and corporation worship. I don’t want that either. I don’t know what it is with Republicans – everything’s either or with them. Either deregulate everything or you want state control of everything, and that’s not anywhere close to the truth.
The guy that shot the soldiers in Arkansas does not belong to “our side.” Nice strawman there. I can say unequivocally though, that I condemn murderers no matter their political persuasion.
when republicans say it is ok is when buddy!
Art – Germany, France and Italy have been more or less socialist for the past 50 years, how are they faring?
Take the issue of ‘gun control’. …
Yet where is the debate? Which side runs from it?
Nobody is running from debate. If anyone is running, they are no doubt running away from Republican gun nuts spray fire indiscriminately into crowds of heathens.
Did you even read the post Art?
What actions are you talking about? Surely the Pro-Israel, pro-monetary, Republicans are not being blamed for someone who has nothing to do with them. You are right there is no debate because you just make stuff up with no evidence even if it is contrary to the evidence that exists. If anything you should be blaming the anti-Israel left.
I wouldn’t even know that you were referencing the recent act of violence if it weren’t for other comments on posts. This guy was so anti-Republican in his policies that it wouldn’t occur to me to even make a connection.
It would be laughable, but we see tyrants have used that throughout history. Take unrelated actions and try to manipulate it to marginalize the opposition. It is unseemly and unAmerican.
There will be 20K serious acts of life threatening violence this year. Are we now going to play games with every tragedy. There was a car chase in Phily were a thief hit 3 people. The guy obviously believed in wealth distribution. Do I blame Democrats for that?
When does it become okay to judge Republicans based on the actions of the conservative movement’s most passionate and engaged members?
Well, considering that “movement” comprises mostly of people who have a common bond in racism, can you then also say white people are to blame, too?
Look, there are Republicans, probably moreso in the center/more-progessive sect, but others as well, that find this stuff repulsive. The talking heads that dominate are horrible, inspiring (not in a good way, but they manage to get people whooped up), bloviated gas bags who don’t see the far-consequence for their action. There is irony there, too. One of the ear;y hallmarks of true conservatism (MIA for decades) is to be well thought out, completely understand what consequence action-A today could have on everything from there all the way to event-Z, way down the road. That doesn’t happen with these hype mongers. They see what’s at the tip of their nose and throw it at a wall to see if it sticks.
Of those that find this repulsive, I honestly don’t think you care, seriously. I’ve stopped trying to address it here, because it’s not noteworthy, it’s ignored. Why should I even bother? There are others, too, whom you’ve become used to razzing, that have made statements in the past against it, but because of the source, you don’t give a crap, because nothing, and I mean nothing they say can ever be worth your while, so they get dismissed with likely an ad hominem to boot.
Sorry, but that’s how I see it. Now go blame all the whities, they haven’t spoken out against this enough as a group.
“Art – Germany, France and Italy have been more or less socialist for the past 50 years, how are they faring?”
“Did you even read the post Art?”
Save your breath, folks, Art pontificates but almost never engages.
“I don’t judge all Republicans by the actions [of] the fringe.”
I do, UI! They never speak out against their fringe, and Congressional Repubs all act in lock step. Contrast that to the Dems who are in constant debate publicly with one another. I trust the debaters to come up with the best solutions.
I agree with Jason330: “Where is the mainstream Republican saying, “We might have political differences but we are all Americans.” ?”
“I do, UI! They [Republicans] never speak out against their fringe, ….”
Except those like Smitty and Burris, rare breeds in the Repub Party. How often do we here Mike Castle speak out against his party leadership, let alone his party fringe?
He is not a Republican and not part of the fringe of the Republicans. You all know that very well so what is the point to this?
I think the actions are repugnant enough that it doesn’t require “speaking out” against it. Our expressions of horror are enough. I would like to see the people who spend time fueling anti-Jewish feeling by bashing the Israeli’s for just finding ways to survive and protect themselves (who are mostly progressives) start toning it down, but in the end these people do not care what the rest of us think. We are all blind followers of the Jewish conspiracy so what ever we say against them does nothing. We will continue to engage so the young and misinformed do not fall in their web, but know that these types of games do nothing to help.
I think we all agree with President Obama about the danger of Holocaust deniers. It is obvious that this is not a political division between left and right. It may be a division between the loons and the sane, but that has always existed.
David… Jason was using “Republicans” and “right wing” interchangeablely.
A person may be a right winger and not a Republican, although the converse is less and less true.
To answer Jason’s question, I have a tipping point in my mind: if the President is assasinated by a right wing extremist.
With every act of right wing extremism we see, that horrible possibility becomes more and more likely.
Smitty,
Where are the movement conservatives working to cool down the wackos? Where are the moderate Republicans doing that in fact? They don’t exist.
The modern Republican party is built on firing up the worst in its followers. FSP takes part in that when it suits him. (see state sovereignty for example) It is the Republican Party that is sick and un-American.
If I’m missing the times when saner Republicans are trying to turn the GOP ship and cool the passions of the more volatile members please let me know.
“If I’m missing the times when saner Republicans are trying to turn the GOP ship and cool the passions of the more volatile members please let me know…..”
….so I can ignore that, too.
Well?
I guess you’d put up a link if you had an example. Instead you’d rather just try to be clever. That’s fine.
Murder stats (’08, FBI);
Phx 212…LA 384…Chi 510…NO 179…Balt 234…Det 306…StL 167…NY 523…Phil 331…Dal 170…Hou 294…and so on and so on…
“Limbaugh, your insidious plan is working!”
(What about the Muslim looney who shot the GI in front of the recruiting center? Rachael Maddow?)
Actually, Jason, just letting you know, FSP has, at least in the recent past, denounced some of these talk-radio whack jobs. Yet, at the same time he publishes David A, who supports some of the most un-American ideology that one could possibly imagine (like the imprisonment and torture of American journalists by North Korea!).
Why FSP provides a platform for David A’s Christianist totalitarian rants is beyond me.
So, I can’t figure it out. But just do what you gotta do to take care of your health in regards to the blog commentary back and forth.
OK, Repubs, conservatives, 2nd amemdment types, etc. How about this. Since the guy in Pittsburgh killed cops because Obama was coming for his guns… a “Christian” lunatic killed an OB/GYN… and this nazi pig shot up the museum… Just apologize for ripping the DHS report last month and we’ll call it square.
The GOP and its multi-media wing owned these bastards once they began pandering to them….let us not forget all those Palin rallies, Bachmann Retard Overdrive, and of course the nightly scare-fest on FoxNews!
In other words, words matter.
They’ve fed the beast and now are backing away…afraid of what they helped create.
Dr. Franken-STEEN.
They’ve fed the beast and now are backing away…afraid of what they helped create.
That’s the point. When people are killing people with your words on their lips you bear some culpability.
When people are killing people with your words on their lips you bear some culpability.
I disagree, Pandora. Book burners and censors everywhere welcome words like yours.
What is also scary is (and I think Shep Smith made this point) that these hate groups can now get together and bitch about their crumbling world views via the internet.
So let’s extend the scary — these radio entertainer types and the internet performance artists keep track of all of these seething resentments and use it as fodder to capture their audiences.
A1, I’m not advocating banning speech. They can continue to say what they will, but they have to own them. They can’t feign surprise when someone acts on them. Funny, how quickly someone will take credit for their words inspiring positive action.
The point is… the O’Reillys, etc. and Roeders, etc. are reading from the same script. Fine. Let’s stop pretending they aren’t connected. Let’s stop saying things like “just because I called this man a murderer, a Nazi, said he must be stopped, displayed his picture and address of his clinic I wasn’t in any way involved with his murder. It was just one crazy person. And I had absolutely nothing to do with it.”
Link.
And as far as I’m concerned, the Roeders and the Von Brunns aren’t listening to jackasses like Rush and Beck. They’re in groups and on web sites that are far worse and far more dangerous than those punks.
“I don’t think it was murder, because murder is when a person kills another person without justified reason.”……..Abdulhakim Muhammad
Mr. Muhammad shot and killed a U.S. soldier as he was smoking a cigarette outside a Little Rock recruiting office.
I guess we should blame the actions of this lunatic on the Koran.
All people have the freedom of choice and the freedom of thought.
If they choose to believe, hook line and sinker, everything that a particular party tells them, GOP or not, then they are fools.
If those fools act on that information, and do anything illegal, they should rot in jail for it.
All political parties spin the information to their benefit. All play on the emotions of the base. All parties are engaging in negative political hate speech towards other parties.
Not one party, mine included, is immune from this. If foolish people aren’t smart enough to recognize this and act accordingly, than they are just pawns in the system.
But that’s the point, CR, a lot of people will blame it on the Koran and Muslims in general – or at least Islamofascism.
Look at the quote you cited, and tell me how different it is from what the anti-abortion crowd said after Dr. Tiller’s murder.
Fine, but my point is that nuts come in all persuasions.
pandora,
I know that you’re not advocating banning speech. But your statement gives aid and comfort to those who would.
A person’s speech, as protected by the First Amendment, does not make them culpable or responsible for the criminal actions of another person, even if the criminal says that it inspired him/her.
I agree that there is some social responsibility for all of us to try to maintain at least a semblance of a responsible civilized discourse.
That’s all.
You can apologize to Republicans now. Apparently, the guy had the address of the Weekly Standard and investigators think that the WS was a target, too.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0609/Weekly_Standard_may_have_been_shooter_target.html
Apparently, the guy had the address of the Weekly Standard and investigators think that the WS was a target, too.
Are you claiming the neocons as your own now?
Never mind, they are hanging around your neck anyway.
You’ll be apologizing when this lead goes nowhere. Just like the wingnuts who tried to paint the recruiter shooter as a lefty peace activist.
I get it. The right wing can be the target of a shooting, and it still can be the right wing’s fault. Whatever fits in the desired storyline, I guess.
I have always tried to differentiate between Republicans and Social Conservatives. If your party’s being hijacked… look Right.
Sorry, FSP, but I never considered you one of the 20%ers. Hopefully, that’s not an insult! 🙂
“Sorry, FSP, but I never considered you one of the 20%ers. Hopefully, that’s not an insult! :-)”
Not at all. But Rush330 REALLY wants to link every evil in the world with the Republican Party. I like to shed a little light in those scenarios.
Ah… but the Republican Party is at a crossroads. The path that’s taken may not be up to you and Smitty. I am watching, and… hoping.
As far as you and Jason… I don’t get involved in family disputes! 😉
“Ah… but the Republican Party is at a crossroads. The path that’s taken may not be up to you and Smitty. I am watching, and… hoping.”
Be sure to watch this then.
I’ll try and tune in – you do know I’m a Sussex Countian now!
Now, take this for what it’s worth, but unless you guys get rid of the haters and develop policy it’s all talk. Believe it, or not, I want a viable second party – and, just between you and me, I’m not seeing Libertarians going anywhere fast! (Sorry, Steve! 😉 )
“you do know I’m a Sussex Countian now! ”
Does that mean Drinking Liberally south of the Canal? 🙂
“Does that mean Drinking Liberally south of the Canal?”
Drinking liberally is not an event in our part of the state. It’s a way of life.
Believe it, or not, I want a viable second party
pandora, once again, takes the role of the mouse cheering for the cat.
I’ll see what strings I can pull!
FSP wrote:
But Rush330 REALLY wants to link every evil in the world with the Republican Party.
Well, in fact, most of them are.
A1, we’ll have to agree to disagree – but I know you still love me!
In Dover, it’s because you can’t drink the brown water, so you drink beer instead 🙂
But of course!