Updated: Comment(s) Rescue: Delaware Politics
Noman, a commenter at Delaware Politics, makes a great point. David A.’s response disturbs me greatly. Is this really how Conservatives view women?
Noman: If you say abortion is murder, you must propose laws that prosecute women who have abortions, and prosecute them for murder. If you don’t, you are admitting that abortion is something other than murder.
David A.: It does not follow that I have to prosecute women to be consistent. I only have to prosecute the doctors and recognize the women as co victims.
Co-victims? Is he really claiming that pregnant woman are somehow emotionally and mentally impaired? That they are incapable of making a decision and accepting responsibility for their actions?
Read the whole thread. David dodges the question… but the question remains.
UPDATE: Obviously no one can answer this question… Furthermore, there doesn’t seem to be a whole lot of thinking going on.
Watch video HERE.
(h/t to Noman for finding this video)
Comment by Unstable Isotope on 2 June 2009 at 11:33 am:
The infantilization of women is extremely common in the anti-abortion rhetoric. I think they know they’d lose the argument if they started putting young women in jail. I think the abortion opponents are pretty desperate to keep women ashamed and afraid of speaking out about their experiences. That’s why reading all the stories about the women who were helped by Dr. Tiller has been so important.
Comment by Dorian Gray on 2 June 2009 at 11:36 am:
Do doctors perform these procedures will unsuspecting women are asleep? Personally, I have completely given up trying to sort out what the fuck DA is talking about. It’s futile.
Comment by pandora on 2 June 2009 at 11:44 am:
It’s supply and demand… and demand is high. I can’t fathom how any sane person leaves the woman out of the abortion equation.
Actually, I can. Prosecute the woman and the pro-life movement dies instantly. (I intend to pursue this strategy!
)
Also… does that mean that a pregnant woman who commits a crime now has a legal defense?
Comment by Delaware Dem on 2 June 2009 at 11:44 am:
If women are the co-victims, that means in David’s mind they are unable to make a conscious choice to have an abortion. Or that, like children, their consent is not legally binding.
But Noman is right. If abortion is murder, any adult, whether male or female, whether pregnant or unpregnant, who makes the decision to commit an abortion is guilty of a crime. The doctors are guilty of actual murder. The nurses and the pregnant woman are guilty of conspiracy to commit murder and being an accomplice.
This has always been the logical dead end to the pro-life movement. They are scared to death to follow through to the logical conclusion of their claims.
Comment by RSmitty on 2 June 2009 at 11:49 am:
The idea, which I don’t agree with, is that there are many doctors and practitioners who, with baited breath, seek out pregnant women and dupe them into thinking that abortion is their only option. I am not kidding…that is a common perception of the practice. From that is where you get the ‘co-victim’ label, that they were defrauded into the procedure.
In defense of David, specifically to your conclusion, I sincerely doubt he intended to portray women as mentally/emotionally impaired. My above paragraph, though, is no joke. That is a mantra I have heard over and over again.
Comment by pandora on 2 June 2009 at 11:52 am:
Smitty, that’s one of the scariest things I’ve ever read.
Comment by RSmitty on 2 June 2009 at 11:54 am:
Imagine being in, let alone near, the company that holds that view. That’s when you stand up (when you realize you are one to their many), and slowly creep away, backwards, hoping they do not notice you leaving.
Comment by pandora on 2 June 2009 at 11:56 am:
I think David is too use to preaching to the choir. He’s obviously surrounded by people who nod their heads when women are portrayed as co-victims.
Frankly, he may not have meant to portray women as impaired… but it is what he did. I asked him several times to clarify his position over at DE Politics and he never did. Which, I guess, means I win!
Comment by Geezer on 2 June 2009 at 12:16 pm:
No, it means we all lose. By refusing to listen with an open mind to anyone but their own kind, they frequently act on the bad information they’ve been given.
Comment by Delaware Republican on 2 June 2009 at 12:26 pm:
I won’t dodge the question or the response. For the record I do support state regulation of abortion and not a federal solution. My pro life belief has nothing to do with religion but the simple fact that killing unborn children is not something our society should be proud of nor should we support with federal money.
Now, for the victim issue. You have to ask yourself if abortion is a positive event or an unfortunate event. I think it is a negative event for all concerned while some feminist voices see abortion as a positive transformational event.
In the end abortion should be put to the people and the ballot box.
Mike Protack
Comment by pandora on 2 June 2009 at 12:31 pm:
You just dodged the question, Mike. If abortion is murder/killing should the women seeking them be prosecuted? Why, or why not?
Comment by anon on 2 June 2009 at 12:33 pm:
some feminist voices see abortion as a positive transformational event.
Another mind-blowing slur on women from a wingnut. I’m a guy, and I’m offended.
Comment by Geezer on 2 June 2009 at 12:35 pm:
“I think it is a negative event for all concerned”
And I think it’s none of your fucking business.
Comment by pandora on 2 June 2009 at 12:36 pm:
Scary how I just glossed over that piece of Protack stupidity. I think I’ve achieved immunity.
Comment by Republican David on 2 June 2009 at 12:41 pm:
Mike is right and you are in denial. Every abortion creates victims. A dead child, a broken family, a father denied, and a woman who will ever dream about the child she had terminated. It is a wretched business which needs to end.
Comment by pandora on 2 June 2009 at 12:44 pm:
Still won’t answer the question, I see.
Comment by nemski on 2 June 2009 at 12:44 pm:
And Republican David not answering the question either.
Comment by nemski on 2 June 2009 at 12:45 pm:
#5 is scary.
Comment by anon on 2 June 2009 at 12:46 pm:
“#5 is scary.”
I am surprised liberals didn’t know this was going on.
Comment by pandora on 2 June 2009 at 12:54 pm:
My bad! I had no idea such nonsense was going on, but, then again, I didn’t know that women are emotionally and mentally impaired or that every time a transformational abortion occurs a feminist gets her wings.
Comment by RSmitty on 2 June 2009 at 1:01 pm:
“#5 is scary.”
Seriously didn’t know this? Oh man, I’ve heard that rhetoric for years. Obviously, it’s not the only talking point, but it’s been around. If this ultimately sheds light on some of the polarization, then I am glad to assist.
Comment by Unstable Isotope on 2 June 2009 at 1:02 pm:
Once again, David claims to speak for all women. He has no clue about the women who choose abortion or any of their circumstances. By portraying women as too stupid to make their own decisions, they put up obstacles, like making women have to go to two appointments, waiting periods and having to look at ultrasound pictures.
Anti-abortion activists don’t want to talk about the consequences of this thinking because they know that it will be the end of their movement.
Pandora,
There’s a pretty famous web video of a person asking anti-abortion protestors if women should be jailed. None of them could or would answer. I’ll have to see if I can find it for you.
Comment by Delaware Dem on 2 June 2009 at 1:03 pm:
No, anon, I knew. But I just thought conservatives wanted to take America back to the 1950’s. Little did I know that they wanted to go back to the 1850’s.
Comment by pandora on 2 June 2009 at 1:09 pm:
I swear I didn’t know this. But if this is their line where is all their secret footage of real abortion providers trolling for pregnant women?
Comment by RSmitty on 2 June 2009 at 1:11 pm:
Funny thing, Pandora…it doesn’t exist! Well, we should clarify, in reality, it doesn’t exist. In “it must be true, because we say so” land, it apparently does exist.
Comment by pandora on 2 June 2009 at 1:15 pm:
Thanks for the primer, Smitty. As of Friday I’m a Sussex County resident!
Comment by RSmitty on 2 June 2009 at 1:19 pm:
As of Friday I’m a Sussex County resident!
Good for you, but BOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooo!
Consider that a fit of jealousy.
Comment by pandora on 2 June 2009 at 1:23 pm:
Aw, maybe we could meet for… coffee?
Comment by Frieda Beryhill on 2 June 2009 at 2:40 pm:
YOU WILL NEVER GET AN ANSWER !!!
If Abortion is murder, who goes to prison ?
I asked and asked…….
Comment by liberalgeek on 2 June 2009 at 2:51 pm:
Smitty has only heard this rhetoric because he is a Republican. This is why it is a surprise to Democrats. It is only discussed at the Republican conventions.
Comment by RSmitty on 2 June 2009 at 3:01 pm:
It is only discussed at the Republican conventions.
Wrong and misinformed again (ew, I suddenly feel like an unnamed pilotician). It is done at our skullz-n-crossbonz type of secret society meetings where we praise Montgomery Burns and then go on to discuss our diety-loaded propaganda and how it will benefit you…yes, you, LG. We then scoff and laugh at the misconceptions you have of us, for we are far…worse! BWAAAA-HAAA-HAAA-HA-HAAAAA!!!!
Nah, really, I just try to keep my eyes and ears open in all directions. It really is beneficial to try to know as much as possible of what is going on.
Comment by pandora on 2 June 2009 at 3:03 pm:
Check out the video I just posted. Un-freakin-believable!
Comment by nemski on 2 June 2009 at 3:06 pm:
Just double click on the video to view.
Comment by nemski on 2 June 2009 at 3:08 pm:
The sad thing is the inability of the anti-abortion women to answer the question. Men too, but it’s really sad as you see the light dawning on women.
Comment by liberalgeek on 2 June 2009 at 3:22 pm:
Indeed.
How long have you been doing this?
Two years.
And you haven’t thought about what the punishment for women that have abortions should be?
Ummmm.
Comment by anon on 2 June 2009 at 3:30 pm:
Let’s look at this video the positive way, folks, and give the women credit for following the teachings of Jesus and putting away their stones, and “judging not” at least for the women.
Now if only they could do the same for the doctors and politicians.
Comment by Republican David on 2 June 2009 at 7:28 pm:
All that you have to look at is Planned Parenthood’s opposition to informed consent and their pre-abortion counseling to see that abortionists are scumbag c0nartists unworthy of the medical profession.
They create entire families of victims in their wake including millions of dead.