I’m Not Shocked, And Neither Is Anyone Else
Words cannot express how upset Dr. Tiller’s assassination has made me. But I’m not shocked, which, in some ways, I find more unsettling. Everyone knew this was going to happen. Everyone knew. Funny, how easily the “ticking time bomb” scenario comes into play with this case, and yet, those that worship at the altar of “24” will now dismiss their own premise in favor of the single bullet theory.
Now, I’m all for free speech, but this idea that words are just words is nonsense. Words matter. Every revolution, war, movement and religion began with words. Words are what have driven us to pick up a sword and to lay it down. They incite and diffuse, and to pretend that they stand alone, and can’t be held accountable (accountable, not banned) is unbelievably simplistic and intellectually dishonest.
At this moment the Pro-Life movement is trying to distance itself from its rhetoric. They’re desperately pushing the “lone crazy person” argument. It’s not going to fly, and they probably should be concerned. (BTW, at what number does the “lone crazy person” argument stop being an excuse?) When you classify those that disagree with you as the enemy, as murderers, as people who must be stopped, you really have no right to act surprised when someone follows your words. And while Scott Roeder may have acted alone, he pulled the trigger in the name of a cause – a cause that will half heartedly condemn his act while justifying what he did in the name of the unborn.
Which is really why the Pro-Life movement should either embrace Roeder as their warrior or tone down their rhetoric. They simply can’t have it both ways. And, frankly, I’d appreciate a little consistency. Seriously, own your crusade. It’s extremely annoying to listen to all your fire and brimstone talk and, then, when something like this happens to have you turn into mealy-mouthed cowards who trip over yourselves in an attempt to throw one of your own under the bus. And Roeder is one of your own. If that makes you uncomfortable… too bad. For if you’re serious about condemning a murder, there’s no room for the word but in that sentence.
And if you disagree with what I’ve written here… ask yourself, were you surprised by Dr. Tiller’s murder? Did what happen to him hit you out of the blue, were you completely gobsmacked, or were you resigned to another inevitable attack against an abortion provider?
So, yes, Pro-Lifers can continue to say what they want, and I can continue to point out the terrorists putting actions to their words. And while Roeder has much in common with those that flew the planes on 9/11, the movement behind this lone gunman bears a striking resemblance to those dancing in the streets when the towers came down.
Don’t like that comparison? Then look in a mirror and change your appearance.
Just to back up your claim, Pandora, as soon as I saw the internet headline “abortion doctor killed,” I assumed it was Dr. Tiller, if only because he’s been in the news a lot lately.
Is it me, or is the parallel universe legal system that Roeder belonged to, eerily similar to the Sharia law?
While we wasted billions of dollars and thousands of lives looking for non-existent WMD in Iraq, we have these home-grown, Timothy McVeigh wannabes killing innocent people. Kind of makes you want to slap a politician in the face and tell them to wake up.
Of course our friends on the right will say this was an “isolated incident,” but we know better. My only question is who will be the next target?
The rhetoric is designed to create donations. With each passing year the usual appeals for money are less effective, so they have to ratchet up the shrill in order to get dupes and suckers like Tom S and RWR to contribute.
The problem is when the shrill level hits a certain pitch the real hard core dupes need some way to show that they are heros – and not merely ATM machines.
It’s gotta hurt being an ATM machine!
All I want is for them to claim their heroes. I’m tired of these groups throwing rhetoric bombs and then feigning shock when someone in their group puts their words to action.
So when are they gonna apologize to Napolitano?
“And if you disagree with what I’ve written here… ask yourself, were you surprised by Dr. Tiller’s murder?”
Yes, I was.
“and I can continue to point out the terrorists putting actions to their words. ”
Please do. Please find me an instance in which a mainstream pro-life leader called for the killing of abortionists.
“With each passing year the usual appeals for money are less effective, so they have to ratchet up the shrill in order to get dupes and suckers like Tom S and RWR to contribute.”
Actually with each passing year more and more Americans have been identifying themselves as pro-life, pro-life organizations have gotten larger and we have done better and better in congressional and gubernatorial races but whatever. Don’t let those facts get in the way of your assumptions.
Go watch the video of Bill O’Reilly comparing Tiller to the Nazis. He’s on TV all the time, and he calls himself a moderate.
A lot of “mainstream” anti-abortion groups called Dr. Tiller a murderer and said he had blood on his hands in their statements about him.
Yes, UI. But just saying that this cold-blooded killer is freely walking the streets (and here is his address, BTW) is not an invitation to violence. Just like saying that a black man that raped a white woman in Alabama circa 1890 just walked free wasn’t a specific call for lynching.
“Please find me an instance in which a mainstream pro-life leader called for the killing of abortionists.”
What a fucking stupid question. I think calling for or carrying out an assasination puts one solidly out of the mainstream. Of course it isn’t mainstream. But this isn’t the first and likely won’t be the last.
Your “facts” are irrelevant. OK the mainstream position is gaining popularity. Let’s accept that. Why do the extremists on on side have this strange propensity for violence?
While Tom S tries to take comfort is a very dodgy reading of a recent poll that somehow he is in some majority here, how could he be surprised that Dr. Tiller was assassinated? The man was shot twice, his clinic bombed and subject to mass protests by wingnuts for many years. In other words, he’s been a target.
Go watch the video of Bill O’Reilly comparing “Tiller to the Nazis. He’s on TV all the time, and he calls himself a moderate.
A lot of “mainstream” anti-abortion groups called Dr. Tiller a murderer and said he had blood on his hands in their statements about him.”
None of those thing constitute calling upon people to kill people.
The same (and worse) is constantly heard of George Bush and it doesn’t particularly worry anyone.
“Yes, UI. But just saying that this cold-blooded killer is freely walking the streets (and here is his address, BTW) is not an invitation to violence. Just like saying that a black man that raped a white woman in Alabama circa 1890 just walked free wasn’t a specific call for lynching.”
If that is so why is only one abortionist dead? With a majority of Americans in the pro-life camp why aren’t our streets not littered with the bodies of dead abortionists?
“While Tom S tries to take comfort is a very dodgy reading of a recent poll that somehow he is in some majority here, how could he be surprised that Dr. Tiller was assassinated?”
Abortion has been legal nation-wide for over 35 years, about 50 million abortions, about 150 million pro-life Americans, and this is the first time in over a decade that an abortionist has been killed.
You have to admit, this stuff is pretty rare.
Notice they weren’t at all interested in taking a referendum on the subject until they found a poll in which they “won.”
They still don’t want a referendum… only a weak talking point.
There have been exactly 2 Islamic terrorist attacks operations on American soil since the founding of Israel.
You have to admit, this stuff is pretty rare.
Pan: Protack proposed a referendum on one of the other threads. Of course, Protack would quit before the vote was taken.
“There have been exactly 2 Islamic terrorist attacks operations on American soil since the founding of Israel.”
A – fail.
B – the body count is a bit higher.
Protack and Co. are like toddlers. All for taking a vote, until they lose and quit the game.
Not enough damage for ya, eh Tom? Need some more numbers? Okay…
Violence against abortion clinics and doctors/staff – connect the dots version.
9 murders
17 attempted murders
153 assaults
383 death threats
3 kidnappings
655 bio-terror threats
41 bombings
173 arsons
91 attempted bombings/arson
619 bomb threats
1630 trespassing
1264 vandalism
100 attacks with butynic acid
Big enough for you now? Geez, all this talk about the sanctity of life and you casually dismiss certain acts based on body count? You are such a hypocrite.
I see MJ is talking out of his enlarged asshole again. There are plenty of innocent people being murdered by homegrown killers. Just go to any ghetto.
“There are plenty of innocent people being murdered by homegrown killers. Just go to any ghetto.”
Few of the innocent victims are truly murders, in which the victim would have to be targeted. Ghetto gun violence is mostly drug violence, similar to gangland killings — they don’t go after civilians, because it screws up business. The innocent bystanders who are killed aren’t the targets of the shooters.
“Big enough for you now? Geez, all this talk about the sanctity of life and you casually dismiss certain acts based on body count? You are such a hypocrite.”
I in no way causally dismissed these acts of violence, what I casually dismiss is the idea that their scale rivals the threat of Islamic terrorism.
Sorry, Tom, but that answer is a big FAIL. I thought life was precious? I thought one abortion was too many? So tell me, how many abortion providers have to die before it suits your scale?
I stand by my assessment. You are a hypocrite.
3000, P. 3000.
“Sorry, Tom, but that answer is a big FAIL.”
Sorry if there was any confusion, you original fail was in believing there are been “exactly 2 Islamic terrorist attacks operations on American soil”
“I thought life was precious? I thought one abortion was too many?”
It is.
“So tell me, how many abortion providers have to die before it suits your scale?”
What scale are we talking about? Disgust or fear for the future? Your assertion that abortion related violence is on par with the threat of Islamic terrorism is laughable.
Honestly, VC, dealing with these hypocrites is tiresome.
Funny, Tom, no one seems to be laughing today.
Can’t fix stoooopid, P! 🙂
Just read #22… How about this. Tom can carve out “Islamic terrorism” and I’ll just call it ALL religious terrorism… this guy had the Holy Mackerel (the Jesus Fish thing) on the back of the getaway car….
Yeah this isn’t as bad as “Islamic” terrorism like WWII wasn’t as bad as the Civil War. What a silly argument.
Tom knows that his duped ass is hanging out on this.
Abortions continue to be performed apace, and the anti-abortion PR hucksters are living the sweet life thanks to stupid suckers like Tom.
I actually feel sorry for the dumb fuck.
Ah Jason, call me what you will, the abortion rate has continued to fall over the last decade and shows no signs of slowing.
“the scale of the threat of Islamic terrorism”
Let’s pretend, for a moment, the 9/11 attacks had not happened, or rather had happened on a smaller scale. Would the Islamist threat be the same? Greater? Smaller? In other words, is your assessment of the “threat” higher of lower because of that attack?
What, exactly, do you think the scale of the next attack will be? Why are you so afraid of it? Do you really think a few crazies with bombs can take down our civilization? If that’s the case, you don’t put much faith in our civilization, do you?
“the abortion rate has continued to fall over the last decade and shows no signs of slowing.”
Do you think extremism by your comrades has helped? If so, do you think such extremism should continue?
Loved this line from Jesse at Pandagon…
But, pro-lifers, there may be something wrong with your movement when you have to send out press releases making clear that you don’t actually condone cold-blooded murder.
He has a point.
the abortion rate has continued to fall over the last decade and shows no signs of slowing.
This doesn’t even make any sense. The rate is declining but not slowing?
“Abortions continue to be performed apace, and the anti-abortion PR hucksters are living the sweet life thanks to stupid suckers like Tom.”
Abortion rates have been falling… so the hucksters are expanding their jihad to new issues like contraception or frozen embryos. It doesn’t take much to reel in the dupes.
I know that you are too sad and shaken up (having your ass handed to you) to keep your fact straight, but abortions fell under one recent President: Bill Clinton.
Why? An emphasis on family planning, access to contraception and a decent economy.
Don’t give bloodthirsty wingnut shooters credit when it belongs to common sense and reason.
Abortion rates are falling – I hope it’s because of expanded access to contraception and not because of continuing harassment by jerks like Tom.
“Let’s pretend, for a moment, the 9/11 attacks had not happened, or rather had happened on a smaller scale. Would the Islamist threat be the same? Greater? Smaller? In other words, is your assessment of the “threat” higher of lower because of that attack?”
If the terrorists lacked the capacity to carry out an attack of that magnitude than I feel confident in saying the threat the pose today would be lower.
“What, exactly, do you think the scale of the next attack will be?”
Not sure.
“Why are you so afraid of it?”
I think that should be rather self-evident.
“Do you really think a few crazies with bombs can take down our civilization?”
I doubt it.
“Do you think extremism by your comrades has helped?”
Of my comrades? I don’t think you’re acquainted with my comrades.
“But, pro-lifers, there may be something wrong with your movement when you have to send out press releases making clear that you don’t actually condone cold-blooded murder.”
President Obama sent out a press release…
“I know that you are too sad and shaken up (having your ass handed to you) to keep your fact straight, but abortions fell under one recent President: Bill Clinton.
Why? An emphasis on family planning, access to contraception and a decent economy.”
Sorry Jason, abortion rates have fallen under every president since Reagan. It isn’t the economy, stupid.
2005 are the most recent numbers dim wit.
So? Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush first term. We had what? 3 recessions in that time period?
“If the terrorists lacked the capacity to carry out an attack of that magnitude [9/11] than I feel confident in saying the threat the pose today would be lower.”
What “capacity” are you talking about? The ability to buy box-cutters? By the time three of the planes reached their targets, the terrorists lacked the capacity to complete the fourth leg of the attack. Do you really think they’ll ever be able to hijack another plane and turn it into a bomb without intervention by passengers and crew?
“Why are you so afraid of it?”–I think that should be rather self-evident.”
Sorry, but it’s not. Unless you live in a major city and work in a skyscraper, I can’t think of any reason to believe any terrorist would ever harm you.
“President Obama sent out a press release…”
And you think I suck at comparisons? Thanks for the laugh.
“What “capacity” are you talking about?”
The capacity to motivate, train, bankroll, clandestinely communicate with and smuggle 20 foreign operatives into the United States who lived undetected for years.
“Unless you live in a major city and work in a skyscraper, I can’t think of any reason to believe any terrorist would ever harm you.”
Who says I don’t? Who says my friends and family don’t? Who says I can’t empathize with the tens of millions of Americans who do?
Empathize? Sure you want to use that word, Tom? Thought empathy was on the conservative “No” list.
Only in so much as liberals make that list.
Thank you for your clarifications.
“The capacity to motivate, train, bankroll, clandestinely communicate with and smuggle 20 foreign operatives into the United States who lived undetected for years.”
You realize, I hope, that the “capacity” you cite does not include “committing violence.”
“Who says I don’t? Who says my friends and family don’t? Who says I can’t empathize with the tens of millions of Americans who do?”
Nobody says you can’t be afraid. Just as nobody says we can’t fight your attempts to mold American society to minimize your fears.
You still haven’t said what, specifically, you fear, which is a major reason you can’t dispel that fear.
“You still haven’t said what, specifically, you fear, which is a major reason you can’t dispel that fear.”
There exists a self-described international conspiracy of men who have announced that it is their intention to attempt kill you and I and our friends and family and countrymen. I am afraid that they may someday succeed, as they have in the past.
Guess you can relate to the Iraqis, Tom.
I suppose I won’t have to wonder now that President Obama got us out of there.
“a self-described international conspiracy of men who have announced that it is their intention to attempt kill you and I and our friends and family and countrymen. I am afraid that they may someday succeed, as they have in the past.”
Really? Do you have a copy of that memo? Because I don’t remember any that specified which Americans they wanted to kill, or any that claimed they wanted to kill us indiscriminately. And, once again, you have failed to explain how you think they could wreak such havoc again, now that the airlines have radically changed their modus operandi for hijackings.
And, of course, just because you fear these men doesn’t mean the rest of us should, or will. The only way terror works is if you’re terrified. You apparently are.
Pandora: No, he can’t, because he lacks the ability to empathize with those who do not share his external characteristics. Those people are not Americans, therefore he cannot identify with them, therefore he cannot empathize with them. It’s common to conservatives, who think innocent Iraqis have nobody but themselves to blame for living where they do.
They have tremendous empathy for their own kind, none at all for anyone else.
It’s funny how conservatives went on about empathy with Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito.
I forgot, Geezer. My bad. I guess it was Tom’s use of the word empathize that threw me off! 😉
“he lacks the ability to empathize with those who do not share his external characteristics.”
Do you know me, asswipe?