Massive Bailout

Filed in National by on September 19, 2008

There really is no other way to describe it.  The US Government will essentially buy the bad mortgages that are sitting on the books of the US banks and will repackage them and assign a fair value to them and sell them back to the banks.  Essentially we, you and I, will buy a bunch of loans for $100M, do the analysis on the loans that the banks are afraid to do, and then resell them to the banks fo $10M.

Privatizing loss, socializing gain.

About the Author ()

Comments (75)

Trackback URL | Comments RSS Feed

  1. pandora says:

    Balloon Juice agrees with you, LG. Although, you were more polite!

    http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=11356

    Here’s a little excerpt:
    I do not ever want to hear another damned word about the free market. I don’t want to hear another thing about letting the market regulate itself. I don’t want to hear about the free flow of capital. I don’t want to hear about government getting out of our lives.

    None of it. From superfunds to super-bailouts, I am tired of other people getting rich being irresponsible and then being told I have to pay to clean it up. I didn’t read one punitive aspect of this new plan. Not one punishment for the people who did this.

  2. anonone says:

    Welcome to repub welfare for wealthy criminals.

  3. jason330 says:

    The good news, as an earlier commenter pointed out, it is now blatently clear that Republican economic theory is an abject failure across the board and anyone who continues to support the GOP’s economic talking points (cough, McCain..cough) is a nut.

  4. anon says:

    Buy high, sell low – but we will make it up on volume.

    If I am buying these loans I want to keep them. I suspect they will mostly pay off in the end.

  5. mike w. says:

    We could just not bail them out, but that’ll never happen, especially in an election year.

  6. cassandra_m says:

    Count me in with John Cole. And I never want to hear the words Free Markets out of the mouths of republicans again, either. If the world was fair, all republicans advocating their free markets (as developed by Tony Soprano) would subject to the RICO statues.

  7. anon says:

    Now you see why the rich were so hot to shift the tax burden downward.

  8. anonone says:

    Thanks to all you repub Bush-lovin’ lock-step hinge-head wingnuts:

    From the Washington Post:
    “What we are witnessing may be the greatest destruction of financial wealth that the world has ever seen — paper losses measured in the trillions of dollars. Corporate wealth. Oil wealth. Real estate wealth. Bank wealth. Private-equity wealth. Hedge fund wealth. Pension wealth. It’s a painful reminder that, when you strip away all the complexity and trappings from the magnificent new global infrastructure, finance is still a confidence game — and once the confidence goes, there’s no telling when the selling will stop.”

  9. anon says:

    Can you believe that in the middle of this crisis the Republicans actually nominated a member of the Keating Five?

    They are incorrigible.

  10. anonone says:

    Right-on Jason,

    Anyone – ANYONE – supporting the repub ticket is a fool by definition. 4 more years of this?

  11. They’re all pigs. That’s all that can be said. Pigs at the Trough. In fact, Arianna Huffington wrote a great book with that title about five years ago. Probably out of print, but it certainly laid it out how these corporate pigs are robbing the public blind with the backroom tactics.

  12. mike w. says:

    Cass – I’d bet you were never a fan of free-market capitalism in the 1st place.

    I’ll still take our free market system over any socialist / socialist-lite system anyday.

  13. pandora says:

    Mike W., you are nothing more than a “republican” apologist.

    I would think that, at your age, you’d be very concerned about the economy. Are you planning on owning a home someday? Starting a family? Putting your kids through college? Possibly, subsidizing your parents?

    Your generation is about to be handed the bill.

  14. anonone says:

    Mike the Racist:

    Just shutup. This is your repub “freemarket” at work. A financial meltdown because of Bush-lovin’ lock-step hinge-head wingnuts like you. Massive nationalization of corporations. Socialism on a massive scale.

    And what are you most concerned about this election? Whether or not you can buy a semi-automatic weapon within 5 miles of a school. You are pitiful.

    Go away. You should be ashamed of ever offering your bigoted gun-loving opinion here again.

  15. mike w. says:

    You must have a reading problem Pandora.

    Did I say anywhere that I supported these bailouts? I’ve said several times, including comment #5 here that I don’t support them.

    I’m actually putting money INTO my IRA right now.

    Also, while this is a bailout (which shouldn’t happen) it is NOT socialization. The gov. isn’t coming in and buying & managing the banks, or god forbid the entire US banking industry. They’re giving these banks a loan to provide an influx of capital so that they stay afloat. Am I happy about it? Of course not, but to claim that it equals socialization of the banking industry shows profound ignorance of exactly what that term means.

  16. feces throwing monkey's evil twin says:

    You must have a reading problem Pandora.

    BURN!!!! YOU RULZ MIKE !!!

    In your face Pandora, you can’t fight MIK W’s FACTS and STATISIKS with your LIBRUL instigations!!!

    CONSERVATIVE FACTS CRUSH LIBRUL MALIFACTIKATIONS!!!!

  17. feces throwing monkey's evil twin says:

    USA#1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  18. mike w. says:

    She’s putting words in my mouth that make it clear she’s not reading. Then again, that’s nothing new here…..

  19. Duffy says:

    Mike,

    “Also, while this is a bailout (which shouldn’t happen) it is NOT socialization. The gov. isn’t coming in and buying & managing the banks, or god forbid the entire US banking industry.”

    The day ain’t over yet. I wouldn’t be surprised if they started talking about “oversight” and “agencies designed to prevent recurrence”.

    We have careened well over the line of socialism with this one

  20. Duffy says:

    One more thing: Since the US taxpayers are purchasing these debts, why don’t we have the power to simply forgive them? We forgive debt for developing nations all the time.

  21. anonone says:

    Mike the Racist

    You have not a clue what you’re talking about.

    Go away. You are a disgrace to America.

  22. mike w. says:

    “I wouldn’t be surprised if they started talking about “oversight” and “agencies designed to prevent recurrence”. ”

    True, this isn’t over yet.

    RE # 20. Interesting question Duffy.

  23. anonone says:

    Duffy,

    I play by the rules, save for my down payment, buy a house, and pay my mortgage and taxes on time.

    My neighbor buys a house for no money down, takes out a home equity loan, and stops paying their mortgage and home equity loan. They walk away with, say, $100,000 cash and free rent until they are evicted.

    And you’re saying that the government should bail my neighbor out? Or the criminals that sold them the mortgage?

  24. feces throwing monkey's evil twin says:

    One more thing: Since the US taxpayers are purchasing these debts, why don’t we have the power to simply forgive them? We forgive debt for developing nations all the time.

    Brilliant!! WHO SAYS CONSERVATIVES LIVE IN A DREAM WORLD?!?!?!?!?! It ain’t so!!!!

    IT IS ALL ELECTRIC ONES AN ZEROS ANYWAY!!!!!!!!

    Then we can start up another real estate bubble and we’d all be on easy street befor you could say, “USA#1!!!!!”

  25. Linoge says:

    Ok, so the “blame the Repukes for every possible thing that has gone wrong” meme I get – after all, this is a blazingly partisan, liberal weblog.

    However, one random, serious question. The Republicans have not been in control of Congress for the past two years. What, exactly have the Democrats done to prevent this situation? Because, apparently, they have been helping it along, and now are pulling a “Bush” and refusing to deal with it.

  26. anonone says:

    Linoge

    The repubs have been in control of Congress for 16 of the last 18 years and of both houses for 6 of the last 8.

    The executive branch is responsible for law enforcement. They failed. The SEC is responsible for oversight. They failed. You supported all this crap. You failed.

    Go back to your Freepers.

  27. feces throwing monkey's evil twin says:

    GO Linoge!!!

    YOU are my HERO!!! THE DUMBO-crat RULE DID all the SHIT!!!!

    STOOPID LIBRULS SUCK!!!! PHIL GRAM and BUSH are NUMBER 1!!!!!

    THEY tricked the DUMBO-crats to be in charge of this MELTDOWN!!!!

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

  28. cassandra_m says:

    And let’s not forget that this is no longer about individual mortgages. This is about the financial instruments created by the banks to sell off any risk that these mortgages may have represented (after they took the profits on writing the loans). It is those instruments — unvaluable, uninsurable (that were valued and insured) that is causing the system to seize up. I have no idea if these instruments can be unwound.

  29. anonone says:

    cassandra_m

    The bank buys a $300,000 mortgage on a house that drops in value to $200,000 and payments buy the mortgage holder have stopped. After foreclosure, the bank may see $125,000 if they are lucky. So the bank is out $175,000. You can’t unwind that unless you get the taxpayer to buy the mortgage from the bank for $300,000 and then sell it for $125,000 or less. Who eats the difference? The American Taxpayer.

    That is the repub plan.

  30. anonone says:

    Wait there’s more!

    If you stay in the house and keep up your mortgage payments (even though you have lost $100,000 in equity), you don’t get any help from the government such as a write-off for the home equity loss. But you have to help the bankers that made all those bad loans while the repubs did nothing.

    Rich? Break the law – you’re rewarded. Little guy? Follow the rules – tough luck. That’s the repub way.

  31. pandora says:

    anonone, you are on a roll!

    Republican motto: Screw responsible people! :-)

  32. cassandra_m says:

    Anonone — the bank NO LONGER HOLDS that mortgage. Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac or Lehman or Morgan Stanley or AIG or…. you get it… own those mortgages via those crazy investment instruments that they bundle the mortgages into.

    If those banks still owned those mortgages — if they were lending their own money — we wouldn’t be looking at these kinds of bailouts.

  33. Linoge says:

    Anonone, you are evading the question, and not terribly skillfully at that.

    I never said the problem could be fixed. I never said that the Democrats have been in power longer than the Republicans. I am merely asking what, if anything, the Democrats have done that would have delayed/assisted/abated/repaired/etc. this day. Both parties knew it was coming (given that representatives from both parties have repeatedly spoken warnings). So what, apart from refusing to deal with it, have the Democrats done with their two years? How about you answer the question, hm?

    Oh, and by the way, “Congress” is “both houses”.

  34. mike w. says:

    “Who eats the difference? The American Taxpayer.

    That is the repub plan.”

    If you’d quit your Republican bashing you’d see that both sides are supporting that plan.

  35. pandora says:

    Oh no, Mike and Linoge, you’re not going to spin this mess away. De-regulation is your ideology. Man up and own it.

  36. anonone says:

    Wait, there is even more!

    Home buyer takes out a no down payment ARM mortgage that balloons to a high interest rate and he can’t pay anymore and he can’t afford refinancing to the going rate for a 30 year fixed mortgage. So the government steps in and says “we’ll guarantee a mortgage loan to this person at 1% below the going fixed rate.” So the person gets to keep the house unless he can’t afford it at which point the taxpayer bails the bank out. Everybody happy?

    Well, not the person who took out a regular home mortgage in the same neighborhood and made their payments regularly. They end up paying thousands more for their home than the person above because they followed the rules, plus he has to subsidize the irresponsible person and the bank that gave them the loan.

    Everybody else in this transaction makes off like the thieves they are. That is the repub way.

  37. mike w. says:

    WOW – Anonone actually made a coherent comment that I agree with…… up until the last sentence.

    Pandora – It’s not spin. Put aside your blind partisan hatred for a second. BOTH parties and BOTH candidates are supporting these bailouts.

  38. Linoge says:

    Ok, then, Pandora, three more questions (of course, since you have proven incapable of answering the first, I doubt you will have useful answers to these):

    How is it “spin” to ask a topically relevant question?

    If your Democratic Party has, indeed, done something in the past two years to help alleviate the damage from this day, why are you not revelling in the opportunity to rub my face in it?

    Considering that I do not even know what my economic ideology is (apart from dollar-cost-averaging), how are you so sure what it is, and what I have or have not supported?

  39. anonone says:

    Linoge,

    Tell me, what could they do? What did the repubs do?

    Do you think the repubs in the Senate would not filibuster any new regulations? Do you think Bush would sign any? And the regulations that were on the books weren’t being enforced anyway.

    The problems that we’re seeing today are the result of years of repub rule. You can’t expect people who think government is the problem to know how to govern.

  40. mike w. says:

    So then it wasn’t the Repubs fault either Anonone…….

  41. RSmitty says:

    I had no choice but to scroll past the hate.

    This “free market” is not the true free market at work. It became totally perverted and abused years ago. Our NON-fiscal conservatives in the White House (and the administration cronies) helped it get exponentially further perverted. I certainly wouldn’t call it an all-Republican blame game, but the powers-that-are (cronilicious white housers) are absolutely complicit players, even if by ignorance of the issues as they festered (don’t look at the economy, look at Iraq!).

    I am now at the point of bewilderment of how serious fiscal-conservatives can still defend the path to destruction that your so-called presidential administration led us down. Cheney-Bush freaked me out in 2000, hence they never got my vote, ever. It’s been croniliscious ever since.

  42. anonone says:

    Mike the Racist

    Learn to read:
    “The problems that we’re seeing today are the result of years of repub rule.”

    Better yet, learn to think.

    Even better, go away.

  43. mike w. says:

    Rsmitty – Bush pretty much killed whatever fiscal conservatism remained in the Republican party over the last 8 years.

    Anon- that statement is one of an ignorant non-thinker. It is only partially correct, and shows an inability to look past your bias.

  44. RSmitty says:

    No need to tell me that, mike. The guy was a stooge for Cheney, anyway. In the primary season of 2000, Bush humored me like a circus chimp, then he won. Then they gave him Cheney. Then I said, “Oh fuck, we’re fucked.”

  45. Linoge says:

    And still with the ham-handed avoidance of the question. If they had tried anything at all, there would be records, bills put up and supposedly shot down, attempts for some kind of resolution made. Were there? What did the Democrats do? Where is it documented?

    You can’t expect people who think government is the problem to know how to govern.

    Actually, those are exactly the kind of people I want in the government.

  46. anonone says:

    And that is exactly who the repubs are. People who have no respect for our laws, our Constitution, or public service.

  47. anon says:

    What did the Democrats do?

    Blocked putting Social Security money into this disastrous stock market…

    You’re welcome.

  48. mike w. says:

    I still want to privatize social security thank you.

  49. cassandra_m says:

    Ok, then, Pandora, three more questions (of course, since you have proven incapable of answering the first, I doubt you will have useful answers to these):

    Uh, no.

    We are not following you down the rabbit hole here. There is a thread topic and if Pandora has mischaracterized your attachment to deregulation, just say it and talk about the bailout.

    Otherwise you are just trying to derail a topic with some wingnut crap in order to avoid looking at the culpability of your party.

  50. Unstable Isotope says:

    Republicans own this mess hook, line and sinker. It was caused by years of deregulation and crony capitalism. As far as getting out of this mess, I think we’re in a damned-if-we-do and damned-if-we-don’t situation. If we allow these entities to fail, we might feel superior but it would shut down our economy. If we rescue them, we’re on the hook for years of their bad decisions. I know this decision is going to get us in a bigger mess but there has to be some way to clean it up. One thing that bothers me is that these people who caused this mess will get their millions and their golden parachutes and will never see a day in jail. Privatized profits, socialized losses.

    I also never want to hear about “free markets” or “welfare queens.” We know who the welfare queens are – they are in Wall Street. I also don’t want to hear any more about we can’t afford things. If we can afford to spend trillions on Wall Street Welfare Queens and in Iraq, then we can afford universal health care and infrastructure rebuilding.

  51. anonone says:

    Right On, Isotope!

  52. anonone says:

    Mike the Racist:

    Your still an idiot, thank you for leaving.

  53. Linoge says:

    Well, anonone, thanks for playing. I must presume, by your silence and refusal to answer a simple question, that your understanding concerning the Democratic Parties action to alleviate the damage inflicted by today and the days preceeding it is “nothing”. Pretty much what I thought after the first evasion, especially after Pandora jumped into the game with further evasive tactics.

    And for that “nothing”, the Democrats share just as much guilt as the Republicans.

    Sure, blame the Republicans all you like – I honestly do not know what precipitated this situation in which we find ourselves. But the fact that the Democrats did absolutely nothing to even try and alleviate the situation… that is pretty damning. No, it might not have worked. No, it might not have even made it out of the first discussion board. But just trying, that would have been something. Indicative of a desire to help, if nothing else. Instead, not only have they done nothing to help anyone, and are not going to do anything to help anyone, but the people partially responsible for this mess are the same people advising Senator Barack Hussein Obama on politics, finance, and housing. Yeah, that gives me a big ol’ warm fuzzy.

    Unfortunately, anon, there is no way to prove where the money from a privatized Social Security system would end up, or if it might have helped or hindered this day. Null game, that.

    some wingnut crap in order to avoid looking at the culpability of your party

    Good grief, Cassandra. Is every mirror in your house broken?

  54. pandora says:

    Wow! I run out to the store (to do my part for the economy) and come back to Cassandra and UI doing my bitch slapping for me!

    Give it up, Linoge. This “let’s not argue over who killed who” mentality is pure crap. Suddenly you guys are all about sharing the blame. Funny, when housing prices were soaring I don’t recall any of you patting the Dems in congress on the back.

    You own this.

  55. anonone says:

    Like what should they have tried, Linoge? You can’t even figure out what got us into this mess. Please tell us your brilliant thoughts.

  56. Linoge says:

    Oh, and as for the kinds of people being in government, I guess our Founding Fathers were “people who have no respect for our laws, our Constitution, or public service,” given that a considerable number of them were of the same “the government is the problem” mentality.

    I own nothing, Pandora. And given that you cannot answer four little questions, you are certainly not one to call someone else out. There are people to blame here. There are lots of people to blame here. But the interesting thing is that they are on all sides of the aisle. Of course, given the RDS here, I doubt anyone would be willing to admit that.

    Anonone, logical fallacy, that. “Above my paygrade,” to use your hero’s line. It is not my job to find the answer – but it was, and still is, theirs. And they not only shirked that responsibility, but they are continuing to do so. Consistency in the face of adversity runs on both sides of the fence as well, apparently.

  57. cassandra_m says:

    Republicans have been in charge of Congress for the last 16 of 18 years. And there are 41 Senators who will say NO to any possible change to the Bandit Nation crafted by the repubs. 2 years doesn’t begin to derail all of the pathways to the banditry endorsed by these so-called conservatives.

    So instead of making pretend that this spectacular failure — one that the American taxpayer is on the hook for — isn’t the biggest repudiation of what passes for free markets among these so-called conservatives why not regale us with why you think they were so wrong.

  58. anonone says:

    The people who wrote our Constitution would be aghast at what the you repubs have done to it.

    Obviously, these discussions are “above your paygrade”.

  59. mike w. says:

    “The people who wrote our Constitution would be aghast at what the you repubs have done to it.”

    And they would have had a whole bunch of the liberal politicians you adore shot or hung by now.

    BTW – Obama aspires to hold the highest office in the Nation. Nothing should be “above his paygrade.”

  60. anonone says:

    Mike the Racist

    Oh, sure, Mike the Racist, the President should know EVERYTHING!

    Go back to masturbating with your gun magazines.

  61. Linoge says:

    Obviously, any logical or reasonable debate is massively above your head, given your amazing propensity for swiss-cheese stereotypes (I am not, by the way, a Republican. Funny, that.), ad hominem attacks, and evasive responses. We are done here.

    And, again, Cassandra, since your reading comprehension problems have surfaced once again, I never asked for the Democrats to fix the problem, as I mentioned back in comment #33. All I asked is whether or not they have done or tried to do absolutely anything that would have abated the damage inflicted by the recent turn of events. If the answer is yes, then good on them. If the answer is no (as I believe it is, and no one here has presented evidence to the contrary) then they are smeared with as much guilt as the Republicans, if not more so – by your narrow and blindered beliefs, they supposedly should have known better, and should have at least tried.

  62. cassandra_m says:

    Nothing should be “above his paygrade.”

    Why?

    The man is not God.
    And no one who holds the highest office in this nation is God.

    Anyone with any humility whatsoever is going to find some questions or issues beyond him or her.

    But then, you are a repub — widely known to need strong Daddy figures who are certain about it all — even the stuff they are wrong about.

    I think your short bus is waiting to take you back to your parent’s basement.

  63. mike w. says:

    Weren’t you guys just saying “The buck stops here?”

    If he’s faced with a situation where a decision must be made he can’t say “sorry, that’s above my paygrade” as a means of avoidance if he’s President.

  64. cassandra_m says:

    All I asked is whether or not they have done or tried to do absolutely anything that would have abated the damage inflicted by the recent turn of events. If the answer is yes, then good on them.

    Yes, keep repeating yourself.

    The discussion here is on the bailout. The one necessitated by stated conservative policy (speaking of narrow and blinkered beliefs) for the past 2 decades. Perhaps you don’t quite understand what it means to have repubs in control of congress for 16 or the last 18 years, and never enough from the other side to work with you when you do control it.

    Keep working on some bi-partisan blame here. It is the only way you get to try to vindicate policy that has blown up this week — we get that. And you (plus Mike) would be the only ones buying that juicy rationalization.

    And while we’re at it — has anyone noticed who here is mad as a hatter at this week’s problems and who is not?

  65. anonone says:

    Mike the Racist

    Look up the question Obama was answering when he made that statement, you racist twerp.

    Go away.

  66. cassandra_m says:

    You are an idiot mike w to think that no human being could face a situation (personal, moral, intellectual or work) where dead on certainty is not possible.

  67. mike w. says:

    I know exactly the context in which he made that statement and it changes nothing. Someone who wants to be President of this nation doesn’t get to pass on tough questions with “That’s above my paygrade.”

    He won’t be able to do that as President, and if he thinks he can it calls into question his leadership abilities.

  68. Linoge says:

    *snickers* And now with the endless exercise of putting words in my mouth. My, you all are almost predictable enough to fail the Turing Test.

    I am not trying to vindicate anything. I am not trying to defend anything. I am not trying to rationalize anything. I am asking a simple question. Your inability to answer it, and your increasing defensiveness when it comes to the answer, are all the information I needed. As I said before, and it continues to stand now, the Democratic Party shares as much guilt as the Republican Party for the situation in which we find ourselves, your evasiveness, hypocrisy, and attacks not withstanding.

  69. cassandra_m says:

    As I said before, and it continues to stand now, the Democratic Party shares as much guilt as the Republican Party for the situation in which we find ourselves, your evasiveness, hypocrisy, and attacks not withstanding.

    Who is the Turing Test? And who is not addressing questions?

    What a troll.

  70. mike w. says:

    “You are an idiot mike w to think that no human being could face a situation (personal, moral, intellectual or work) where dead on certainty is not possible.”

    You are absolutely incapable of rational & logical thought if that’s what you took away from my comment.

  71. pandora says:

    Linoge and Mike like to pretend their reasonable when they hijack a thread and parse the argument.

    Own it, baby!

    (OMG, I think I’m channeling DV!)

  72. anonone says:

    Linoge,

    From Forclosuredataonline

    Nov 2007: Democrats Ask For Fast Response to Mortgage Foreclosure Crisis: Politics has definitely entered the mortgage foreclosure crisis as anticipated and members of the Democratic-controlled Congress have been pushing President Bush to speed-up his efforts to halt the rapidly-escalating tide of mortgage foreclosures. Democrats who are on the House Financial Services Committee have stressed to administration officials that time is of the essence since current statistics project that 2-million sub prime mortgages will reset to substantially-higher monthly payments and thus elevate the number of defaults in the next several months…The adminstration’s point person, Treasury Undersecretary Bob Steel replies that the proposal was under review but provided no endorsement.

    GIYF

    We are done here.

  73. cassandra_m says:

    No takebacks, mike w — your comment allowed for no situations where dead certainty may not be possible.

    Write better.

    If that is even possible.

  74. mike w. says:

    “Write better”

    Sorry, but I prefer not to obfuscate, evade, eschew facts and logic, and offer personal attacks. That’s how you folks here write. I don’t write (or think) like that.

  75. Truth Teller says:

    Now that the Repuk President and his cronies are taking over the banks and investment houses like a bunch of socialist why not go all the way lets really help the citizens of this country . Don’t just stop there lets take over the Health Care system, and while we are at it why not the Oil Companies also and we can enjoy $.40 cent a gallon gas like the Saudis have, and we all could live longer like the folks in countries that have health care.