McCain Responds to Joe Biden “which of seven kitchen tables?” observation with….
….but, but, but…I was a POW.
Again, I shit you not.
“I am grateful for the fact that I have a wonderful life,” McCain said. “I spent some years without a kitchen table, without a chair, and I know what it’s like to be blessed by the opportunities of this great nation…So the fact is that we have homes, and I’m grateful for it.” -via TPM
So this is it. Any and all criticism of McCain is off the table because he was a POW. Burris must have gotten that GOP email last night, because he went directly to the “but, but, but…POW!” when cornered.
Maureen Dowd has a pretty good take on the POW thing this morning.
Dowd got this one right for a change.
In the long list of things that Bush/Rove did to F-up this country, poisoning the well of American politics has to be near the top.
I’m not sure they poisoned the well, Jason. Rush & Co. did that. What Bushco. did was draw down the water so the poison is now much more concentrated.
I’m not sure I buy the notion that right-wing hate talk against “libs” (make sure you spit while you say it, the way a 1960s middle-aged southerner would say the n-word) triggers the violence from the nutjobs who shoot people.
But it unquestionably has turned those who lost the 1960s culture wars into people who think nothing at all of viewing all dissenting opinion as “lib,” of accusing those who hold such views of seeking to undermine and destroy America, and of fostering a spirit that views compromise as surrender.
Hard-core conservatives are, basically, the Japanese soldiers on Pacific islands who refused to give up long after the war was lost. They’re still fighting to put the 1960s genie back in the bottle — or, if you prefer, the foetus back in the womb. They will never admit they were wrong because they will never know they were wrong.
He WAS a POW. He GOT tortured. For five-and-a-half years. We learned what kind of man John McCain is when he turned down the opportunity NOT to get beaten for five years because it wasn’t honorable or fair to the other torturees.
Hell, yeah, I’m gonna bring it up. Because Barack Obama’s never even gone so far as to cast a VOTE that opposed his party. So we have courage under the most extreme conditions, and then we have Barack Obama.
Deal with it.
Dave,
I guess saying, “POW, POW, POW, POW” tested in focus groups better than McCain’s old campaing theme, “You kids get offa my lawn!”
That’s what I’m getting from your comment.
And we know what kind of a man McCain is now — looking to use being a POW 40 years ago as an excuse to avoid any accountability or scrutiny.
And this kind of accountability and scrutiny avoidance we already have and look where we are. More of the same but with a new excuse doesn’t cut it.
Waiting for a Burris deflection in five…four…three…two…
I’m pretty sure the guy who camps underneath I-95 at the Columbus Ave. exit in Philly — you know, the one who always wears the pissed-in pants and won’t even offer to work for food — was a POW in ‘Nam, too.
I will tell you one fucking thing. When I was 10, my brother Eddie went MIA near D’Nang. It was 1968 and we waited on eggshells for the 5 years until the POW lists came out and he wasn’t on them.
There is a Willing dining room chair the sits empty in the Newark VFW hall as a symbol of those who never came back.
McCain can take his kitchen table and shove it.
Blah blah….I love your anger….mmm….your rage tastes delicious.
TICKETY TOCK!
Damn, Nancy. Sorry about your brother.
Dave, I think we can both honor McCain’s sacrifice back then and deplore the current over-use of his having been a POW.
I worry that his use of POW status will cheapen the sacrifice of others who made it back and of those who didn’t.
And please, Dave, don’t get all pugnacious about it. The sacrifice was McCain’s, not yours.
I’d tell all you Bush/McCain apologists to go fuck yourself, but you’re too busy fucking this great country of ours.
I never knew that, Nancy. My condolences. Did you ever find out anything about his disappearance?
Still highly skeptical of this report that went our under the first Bushie, the family has been told that an investigation in the early 1990’s revealed that he was killed avoiding capture.
My mom was in a constant vigil, keeping a high profile with the National League of Families of MIA-POWs and I figured that the Pentagon took an interest in his case and closed it ASAP in order to grease the squeaky wheel so to speak (remember that the timing of this investigation as Viet Nam was asking to be brought into the WTO and the world’s capitalists were seeking grand new global markets in commie countries and Russia had recently abandonned the financing of her satalites).
So, he may have died and he may have gone AWOL. I have his letters and it is clear that 1968 USA was not a place his USMC 18 year old ass was interested in returning to.
Holy crap. So you never really found out? Damn. My heart goes out to you. Yes, I do have one.
I know you do and thanks.
No, we never found out. When I was twenty they buried an empty box in Arlington and shot of the salute.
“He WAS a POW. He GOT tortured. For five-and-a-half years. We learned what kind of man John McCain is when he turned down the opportunity NOT to get beaten for five years because it wasn’t honorable or fair to the other torturees.”
Do you know what would’ve happened to McCain if he DID take an early release? His military career would’ve been over if he stepped outside of the protocol of “First in, First out”.
Yeah, he made the right choice, but honor and duty wasn’t the sole reasons for it.
But if you want to play that game, then I guess you can say the same thing for Obama, since he didn’t take a high-salaried position with some massive firm, but chose to work with community-based programs right out of Law School. And since he was editor of law review and a Harvard grad, do you know how much money he gave up? Foregoing such a payday and subsequently passing on immediate economic security, what does that say about his character?
Joe Biden doesn’t have a whole lot of room to talk. His house is much nicer than most “middle class” folks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nncgHGVcN7Q
No di, he has plenty of room. You’re wrong.
Come back, di, when Biden no longer knows how many houses he owns.
“But if you want to play that game, then I guess you can say the same thing for Obama, since he didn’t take a high-salaried position with some massive firm, but chose to work with community-based programs right out of Law School. And since he was editor of law review and a Harvard grad, do you know how much money he gave up? Foregoing such a payday and subsequently passing on immediate economic security, what does that say about his character?”
Thank you for this. Trying to compare the two made me realize that I was at Delaware Liberal, where reality and fantasy mix to create an atmosphere of pure ridiculousness.
Back in 2004, McCain told the world: “I’m sick and tired of re-fighting the Vietnam War. And most importantly, I’m sick and tired of opening the wounds of the Vietnam War, which I’ve spent the last 30 years trying to heal,” the Arizona Republican said at a lunch with USA TODAY and Gannett News Service. “It’s offensive to me, and it’s angering to me that we’re doing this. It’s time to move on.”
Later, in the same article, he criticized Kerry for highlighting his Vietnam experience, saying “it’s clearly a tactical or strategic move” designed to shield Kerry from criticism.
And now we have McCain doing exactly the same thing, and expecting a big giant pass for it. (h/t Crooks and Liars)
“And now we have McCain doing exactly the same thing, and expecting a big giant pass for it.”
A pass he deserves.
FSP,
You’re reaching a level of becoming parody. McCain said in 2004 that he’s tired of having the Vietnam War brought up in a political fashion, yet HE’S DOING THE SAME FUCKING THING TODAY. You say he deserves a pass and should have the right to cite his POW status to deflect from the real issues? C’mon, Dave. You can’t possibly believe that tripe.
The world according to Burris: All Republicans not named Atkins live in an accountability free bubble.
McCain deserves his bubble because he was a POW. If he wasn’t a POW, Dave would contrive some other reason.
Get a grip, Dave, this counts as another of the 74 (to date) flip flops McCain has made since he started running this cycle. Even you have to know (tho we get why you won’t say) that asking folks to excuse McCain from any accountability because he was a POW is not the action of someone serious about being President. Talk about your entitlement mentalities…..
Here’s what everyone should understand: My homie Dave Burris is a Republican. A party-boy Republican. Jason is a Democrat, but not in the same way Dave is a Republican. Dave has to maintain a perspective whereby Republicans can never be wrong, unless massive public opinion allows him to dissent (a la the Atkins case). Dave’s modus operandi is to defend Republicans at all costs, no matter how ridiculous. I’ve made this comment on other blogs as it relates to some of Dave’s commentary: Maybe it would be better for him to just keep quiet and let the REASONED arguments here (in this case, Cassandra and Jason) continue. There are many times when Dave is right on MANY issues, however, this certainly ain’t one of them and his defenses are so ridiculously weak as to border on parody, as I mentioned above.
Who’s excusing McCain from accountability, crazy people of DelawareLiberalWorld?
He was accused of having too many houses, and he responded by remembering when he didn’t have a house because he was being held against his will, which gave him the perspective to appreciate what he now has.
When Obama is accused of being an elitist, does he not cite his childhood and rough start as giving him perspective?
Just because you have no answer for the fact that McCain was tortured in service to his country doesn’t mean you can make it go away by crying about it. Whiners.
I’m really happy to have Mike Matthews in my life to point out my shortcomings.
Mike has pwnd you Dave. Time to shut up.
I didn’t think you’d have anything for #28.
Ah… but according to the Bush and McCain definition McCain wasn’t tortured.
He was accused of having too many houses, and he responded by remembering when he didn’t have a house because he was being held against his will, which gave him the perspective to appreciate what he now has.
How the hell does he make his way to home every night?
For di’s information, Joe Biden is considered the U.S. Senator who has accumulated the least wealth. And that’s saying something since he’s been there for 3 decades.
There’s no need to “have anything” for #28 — none of us need to answer for McCain’s torture OR his service to his country.
Just as you can’t explain the mechanism by which POWness gets the man a pass on any accountability for his gaffes or mistakes.
Unless this is it.
OK, Dave, we’ll play your game. Show me the list of former POWs who, in that situation, said to themselves, “Damn, how I wish I had a house to live in right now. Or, even better — so many houses to live in I wouldn’t know how many I had.”
Or make it easier — just show me a list of former POWs who responded to their torture by accumulating enough houses that they couldn’t keep track of them anymore.
BTW, it’s not the only thing he can’t keep track of. He clearly is so out of touch with what migrant workers make that he’ll make a half-assed offer like $50 an hour to pick lettuce. If he were forced to live up to his word — “I was just kidding,” I’m sure would prevail — he’d need every cent his wife has and more. You or I might not be in physical shape to pick lettuce all day, no matter how much we want the money, but you can bet your fat cheeks I’d start exercising tomorrow if that offer held good next spring. And I have a head start — since I pick my own garden’s beans, I’m already an amateur “beaner.” Lettuce is a lot easier to pick.
Seriously, though, as a response to having 10 houses, it’s a classic non sequitur — the response has nothing to do with the question. It should be used in logic textbooks from this date forward.
Unless, that is, he’s making the literal claim that while in the Hanoi Hilton he daydreamed about amassing a real estate empire, or marrying someone who would.
FSP
Yes lets deal with it the truth is McCain is not a hero but a victim. Family connections placed him in harms way. had him take the place of a more qualified person. and put him in a fighter jet that he was unqualified to fly. Which led to his ass getting shot down and captured. he then broke under pressure and gave the names of his flight group to the enemy. So we should feel sorry for him. The real hero is X senator Max Cleanden of Georgia who Thur himself on a grenade to save his buddies and lost both hands and a leg, However this didn’t stop the GOP from swift boating him and getting him defeated by a DRAFT DODGING CHICKEN HAWK
these are the real facts crashed 5 air craft the last one being a ULTRA LITE you know the kind a kite with a lawn mower engine. Some hero
I note that McCain does not mention that because of his war wounds, the VA has classified him as 100% disabled. He receives an annual pension of $53,000 + as a result.
For wealth rankings in the Senate, these links courtesy of AMERICAblog:
Poorest– http://www.opensecrets.org/pfds/overview.php?type=W&year=2006&filter=S&sort=A
Richiest– http://www.opensecrets.org/pfds/overview.php?type=W&year=2006&filter=S&sort=D
I’m enjoying Dave’s sheer panic.
While the houses gaffe is a chance for Democrats to have some turnabout on the usual class crap coming from repubs, there is a more serious question, well documented by the Rogue Columnist here:
This is the candidate who repeatedly confused Shiite and Sunni — all the while trumpeting his expertise on the Middle East. At one point, his sock puppet Joe Lieberman had to whisper the facts in his ear. He couldn’t tell Sudan from Somalia. He kept talking about a nation that hasn’t existed for years. Iraq and Pakistan share a border, the senator wrongly said, and the Sunni awakening happened ‘after’ the surge (edited out by CBS). He said he didn’t know much about economics, then denied saying such a thing. He spoke of a withdrawal timetable one day, then denied saying it later. He volunteered Cindy for a topless contest. Then there was the stupendous dead space and mumbling when he was questioned about claiming Obama was playing the race card. He claimed he walked through Baghdad without body armor or protection, etc., etc. Most of this has been captured on tape.
What’s going on? Neither obvious answer is comforting. He’s either going senile as he nears 72, or he’s lying and unprepared on critical issues without realizing how easily this can be caught in a YouTube era. (Whether the duhs and ignos — those ‘undecided voters’ and angry Clintonites — will care, is another, depressing matter). Either one of these answers should disqualify him for the White House, particularly because so many of his misstatements, confusions and subsequent lies come about issues where he claims superior experience and judgment.
Combine that with the recent WaPo poll that shows that a substantial number of people are uncomfortable with a septuagenarian President, you have the makings of a real issue here.
Dave,
Just let it go. They’re guzzling kool-aid on their talkie end, and warming it up enema style on the other.
I think they’re really headed for a mass suicide this time. Heaven’s Gate….purple capes, sneakers, the whole bit.
If not the cheap way out, then when the Obamination goes down in flames, they will at least blow a gasket. Big time.
The good news is that Ruth Ann has left the psychiatric hospital in great hands.
Donviti, Jason, deldumb…..your rooms await.
Bring the KY.
No, you need to get “la finger” out of your fucking ears and answer the damn question, fool! Is it fair or appropriate for McCain to defer all criticism to his “I was a POW” line?
Answer that questions before spouting off your BS.
I think, Mike, that all of the bluster and belligerence means that this new sockpuppet can’t answer the questions, either.
Complete with dreams of violence, I note.
Umm….no.
Ha!
“Is it fair or appropriate for McCain to defer all criticism to his “I was a POW” line?”
I knew someone would drop something legitimate in all of that. The answer is no, it is not fair, but it is not a non-sequitur, either. It is legitimate for a guy who surely thought he was gonna die many times in Hanoi to reflect back on that experience when talking about the position he is currently in.
By the way, John & Cindy McCain have an iron-clad prenup and keep their finances largely separate. Not that most of you care about the truth of the matter.
If McCain’s actions 40 yrs. are important to a discussion of his character, then I think his actions in the years since he hasn’t been a POW are even more relevant.
Yes, lets talk about his serial adultery, his Keating 5 buddies which cost U.S. taxpayers billions of dollars, his opposition to a Martin Luther King, Jr. holiday and his complete embrace of Bush, Cheney and Rove – a group of people who smeared his family. Those things say a lot about his character as well. Being a POW does not give him a free pass from those actions.
“Being a POW does not give him a free pass from those actions.”
You’re right, and I’ve never heard him say that it did. In fact, contrary to what you may believe reading here in fantasyland, he never said “I was a POW, so I’m immune from criticism.”
But he is allowed to talk about it, anytime he wants. He earned that right.
Yeah, and the voters reserve the right to believe that he uses his misfortune as a ‘get out of criticism’ card.
Good job at the ad hom with #21. Didn’t answer it, but definitely proved your reluctance to admit your (and McCain’s) silly premise of being a POW gives a person instant credibility on all matters and acquittals from logical assessments on mistakes made, infidelity, Keating, deriding lobbyist while still employing them, breaking his own campaign finance rules, and childish temper tantrums.
You and McCain are intellectually dishonest and deserve all the mocking you receive.
And finally, I think I understand the “Tickety-Tock”!
Must be the McCain temper time bomb. It’s gonna blow when everyone in the MSM starts telling him to shove his patented POW excuse line up his dusty ass!
You know, we could make a deal. McCain won’t mention being a POW if Barack Obama will quit talking about his blackness. I’m for that. I’m tired of hearing how Republicans want to play the race card when it is Democrats in general and the Obama campaign in particular that keeps bringing it up. I don’t wanna hear any more about “dog whistles” in every freakin’ ad that shows what a clown Obama is.
We got a deal?
“Yeah, and the voters reserve the right to believe that he uses his misfortune as a ‘get out of criticism’ card.”
I have a ‘real people’ meter that I use. I ask everyone I see who appears to be a senior citizen about John McCain. Most of them won’t even listen to criticism of him because he spent 5+ in Hanoi. And I was laying it on heavy during the primary. So I know your frustration.
Simply put, there are two reasons why it’s neck-and-neck right now in the polls and the EC:
1. People don’t know Barack Obama.
2. They do know John McCain.
Oh, believe me. I understand that.
I’ve heard plenty of people excuse his actions with the “he’s a POW” line. It simply makes others less likely to criticize. But even the most sympathetic will be turned off after hearing it interwoven into every rationalization.
No deal, Sharon. You want to think Obama always talks about his ‘blackness’, but in reality, he doesn’t.
Once or twice, he’s mentioned that the GOP wants to make him appear different, or not like one of us – eg, he doesn’t look like the presidents on money. But if you actually believe that the GOP machine won’t do that, and hasn’t already, then you have not been paying attention and that’s your shortcoming.
But keep going on making shit up in your own head; that’s fine with us.
Come on Don V, you were in the Navy. Didn’t you always want to marry a blonde nymphomaniac whose father owned a liquor store? For the record, I have no proof that Cindy McCain is a nymphomaniac, but this whole thing is about envy.
Sharon,
WTF are you talking about he keeps “talking about his blackness?” Gimme some of what you’re smoking, honey, because something’s surely effing with your brain cells!
To be fair, Obama’s not talking about his blackness; he’s talking about how us evil Republicans are going to talk about his blackness. Of course we won’t ever have to, because Prince Barry won’t STFU about it!
Obama is the one interjecting race into things, which is funny since he specifically said he would not do so early on in his campaign.
Other than looking different from other Presidents, what are you guys referencing?
And yet, GRex, here you are — talking about his blackness. The difference is that Obama does not use the fact that he is black as an excuse for not knowing the number of houses he has.
I’m sorry FSP, McCain is definitely using his POW status as a get out of trouble card. Why would he invoke it about his gaffe about not knowing how many houses he owns? It was just bizarre.
G REX and Sharon,
Are you guys nuts? Can you link to a single instance of Obama using his blackness or even talking about his race?
If anything, I keep hearing him talk about his mother and his Kansas grandparents.
Honestly, you guys have lost your grip on reality.
Well, there was Obama’s “he’s got a funny name. And did we tell you he was black?” reference. There was also the “presidents on the dollar bills” statement.
And this isn’t including the idiocy of “dog whistles” that every argument made against Barack Obama is because he’s black.
Of course, you have Joe Biden who thinks Obama is a “clean and articulate” black man on your ticket, so maybe that balances out the “OMG, I’m black!” argument.
And this isn’t even talking about his books which are all about being a black guy in a white world (even though he’s half black…is there such a thing?).
So, who’s lost their grip on reality? People who actually note Obama discussing his race and accusing others of racism when he’s feeling the pinch, or Democrats who don’t remember what happened less than 2 months ago. But hey. Accusing everybody of racism is way less important than how many homes one of the rich guys running for president has.
The difference is that Obama does not use the fact that he is black as an excuse for not knowing the number of houses he has.
You’re right. He just uses it as an excuse for not being able to defend himself.
^ Yup, he plays the victim card
What?
Care to link to something Sharon? I’ll accept even a link to Fox News. Anything that gives me some idea of where you come up with the stuff.
I mean, I could just say, “John McCain is a child molester” but that does not make it true.
John McCain is a child molester? I can see it now.
Reporter: Senator McCain, when was the last time you molested a child?
McCain: [stammers for 30 seconds] POW.
To Dave @ #50: You left out a word. People THINK they know John McCain.
^ Al, the same can be said for Obama.
This is going to be the pattern of this election —
1. Make a critique of John McCain
2. McCain and his supporters say POW
3. Obama supporters laugh and say GTF Outta Here
4. McCain supporters accuse Obama playing the race card.
They aren’t going to be able to link to anything real (as in something the man has said himself). This is their best chance at changing the subject on the POW idiocy.
Mike: Dave’s post said they don’t know Obama. I don’t think most of his supporters can say they “know” him in the sense Dave is talking about.
And “I’m rubber, you’re glue” doesn’t exactly qualify as scintillating discussion. This thread was once about McCain’s houses. The fact that you and Sharon refuse to talk about that and have turned the discussion to Obama’s perceived faults instead does not change the original point.
The original point has about as much meaning as Obama not wearing a flag pin…….
From Paul Krugman today:
And in that world, stripping away the regular-guy facade — pointing out that everything Rush Limbaugh said about Mr. Kerry applies equally to Mr. McCain, that Mr. McCain lives in a material world few Americans can imagine — is only fair. Yes, Mr. Obama vacations in Hawaii — and Cindy McCain says that “In Arizona, the only way to get around the state is by small private plane.”
The squealing from the usual suspects demonstrates how much the Obama counterattack has the G.O.P. worried. Back in 2004 Fox News described John Kerry as “one of the haves” with a “billionaire wife”; now it asks whether raising the issue of Mr. McCain’s houses is “bashing the American dream.”
Um, I hate to burst your bubble, but the longer Obama is out there, the less worried I am that he will win in November. Back in March, I really didn’t want him to win the nomination because I thought he’d be tougher to beat. But his stumbling and bumbling over the summer–coupled with the lame attacks he’s made against McCain–have given me confidence that the GOP can win the presidency in a year that was supposed to be a Democrat cakewalk.
The fact that you and Sharon refuse to talk about that and have turned the discussion to Obama’s perceived faults instead does not change the original point.
No, the original point was to complain that John McCain brings up his status as a POW in every discussion. I merely pointed out that I am equally tired of hearing about Obama’s blackness and how the GOP is going to use it against him, even when it has been Democrats, from Hillary Clinton on, who have been the ones using it.
Frankly, I don’t really care about how many houses John McCain owns. Senators are wealthy people and McCain, like John Kerry, is married to a very wealthy woman. And it isn’t like Obama is poor. Does owning one million dollar house make Obama “more like the rest of us”? I don’t see any difference when he spends $10k a year on “enhancements” for his children. He’s just as far removed from my life.
Wow, I can’t wait for the day I make a million!
Through some sort of self-imposed amnesia, I’ll be able to forget everything about what it was like to have student loans, living from check to check, so forth and so on.
It must be very liberating!
You should ask Obama about it. Maybe those “aren’t the student loans he knew.”