Rules & Bylaws Committee Prediction Thread
Hillary Clinton supporters will continue to be the low class losers that we all know them to be.
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Hillary Clinton supporters will continue to be the low class losers that we all know them to be.
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I just read on Delaware DEM that Clinton has conceded the split vote!
http://delawareway.blogspot.com/2008/05/clinton-concedes-dnc-rules-were-broken.html
It looks like she knows that if she cheats the voters of MI and FL who supported Obama, her political career would be over.
I just love the way you think you are going to Charm us Hillary supporters to support your empty suit guy. Keep these smart ass remarks up and you will be singing hail to the chief to a SENILE OLD MAN.
Come to think of it 4 years isn’t such a long time and we all know that McCain has already said that one term is enough for him. So if we deside to sit this one out so what
McCain has as much chance of getting elected as Protack, and even less than Lee. The reason she’s willing to fight dirty is because she knows that the Presidential election will be, for all intents and purposes, decided by the Democratic Convention.
I made my prediction in the Al Green thread below:
(there will be a delegate split, there will be seating, there will not be adding to the HRC narrative)
So the DNC will split these delegates about 60/40 Clinton favor and give them all a half vote. All delegates will be seated. HRC will end up with the net of delegates, but not enough to stop people from rolling their eyes when she claims victory.
And at the end, the DNC — battered and bruised by both sides –will have preserved their credibility on setting Party primary rules (except of course by the blinkered partisans on both sides).
Delaware DEM says Clinton conceded to the DNC sanctions last night.
It is over.
oh goodie, my comments were blocked earlier this morning.
as you would say, Nancy… Linkee?
Clinton aloowed that rules had been broken. DelDem took that ball and ran with it to mean that Clinton would then have to accept a compromise. She will do no such thing – since her argument is that “rules have been broken, but so what?”
Clinton is flat out nuts. She is piss drunk on the fight itself. And like her zombie followers, she cares about nothing other than getting the nomination.
She’ll cause general mayhem with idiots like TT cheering her on all the way to Denver – and that will open the door for McCain. That’s my sad prediction.
I’m not even sad or pessimistic about it. I’m just seeing reality very clearly this morning.
This is Delaware Dem’s diary on this. They are conceding finally that rules were broken and that the DNC has the right to impose sanctions. However, they are now asking for forgiveness of those sanctions for full seating of the delegates.
See?
Pictures of the HRC protest crew before Joe Sudbay at americablog went into the hotel.
This reminds me of the florida recount protest staged by BushCo.
In fact, I am struck by how much Clintonites and Bushies have in common.
It has been amazing to me to watch the Clinton campaign adopt the strategies of the Republicans. In December I would have gladly voted for her — today, only if I hold my nose.
It makes absolutely no difference if 100% of the delegate are sat or not as it wouldn’t have been enough for her to even catch up. I would have thought all of you geniuses would have known that. This is about the popular vote. I don’t suppose any of you give a shit about the fact that she will likely finish with the higher popular vote, tho, since that doesn’t really help your candidate. I think the hope is that superdelegates will consider that when casting their votes. I’m sure in 2000 you all believed that Gore should have lost in spite of the popular vote.
Are you guys sure it’s the Clinton supporters who are bitter and angry? From where I’m sitting, I see a bunch of ungracious winners. You should all be very proud of your candidate. Instead you continue to attack Clinton and her supporters. What does that say about you?
Nancy, you moonbat, you’re new meme appears to be that Clinton somehow tried to cheat the voters of FL & MI in some fashion. Can you please explain this interesting pov?
Sorry Geek, the linkee is available from my blog post which is right there in comment # 1.
Dimness! The popular vote as counted by Clinton counts the votes in states where literate people read the vast media coverage that said their vote wouldn’t count and stayed home.
Clinton’s claiming any kind of popular vote victory from MI or FL is cheating as is her take that no caucus states provide any ‘popluar vote data’ and are excluded from her ‘totals’.
Cheater is as cheater does.
This reminds me of the florida recount protest staged by BushCo.
*
yup
I posted on that comparison, replete with photo of the yuppie GOPer mob.
OK, just so I’m clear on this, you think that Clinton is cheating because she wants to honor the votes of the people in MI & FL who took the time to vote? You think she’s cheating because some of the voters in MI & FL didn’t go out to vote? Bit of a stretch.
And just to clarify, you are maintaining that the caucus votes essentially give him the popular vote, right? And you believe that caucuses – where a limited number of voters actually participate because of the amount of time it takes, where single parents, the elderly and shift workers are essentially shut out of the process, where voter intimidation is alive and well – should count the same as primaries where everyone can participate in the process equally, right? Interesting pov.
I’ll bet you’d feel the exact same way if the tables were turned, right?
Oh, and I guess you’re ok with Obama blocking revotes in both of those states, right?
Yes, it reminds me of Bushco recount, too. Bush didn’t want the votes counted, just like Obama.
We really should all calm down on this. We’re just making the republican partisans happy when we bicker like this.
Viewed from a distance (if that’s possible) this promises to be an instructive lesson, no matter how it turns out. Hendrik Hertzberg has an interesting take on this in the latest New Yorker.
What’s most important, to me, is that we get past this and get to work electing someone who is not John McCain. I like McCain, by the way. I just don’t want a republican elected at this time.
We need to take a great big step away from the last eight years.
Unfortunately, Mike, many of us believe that electing yet another completely unqualified candidate is not a big step away from the last eight years.
Jason you called me an idiot for supporting Hillary if there ever was an idiot it’s you supporting a guy who talks about change but hasn’t defined what he means by change. A empty suit who has surrounded himself with preachers who are Race baiters. who is bowing to McCain on Iraq the old man told him to go and like a good little boy he obeys. After coming to the senate he has voted with Hillary on every Iraq proposal. The gasoline prices are killing all of us at the pump and who voted for the veeps energy bill he did. Hillary was smart enough to vote against this one now Dom has asked all of you on more than one occasion to list Obama’s successes
and accomplishments. And all we have received from your side is a dull void (silence of the lambs) So in light of the fact that your side hasn’t produced any evidence of why we should support him he remains an empty suit and the weakest of our parties choice. This party has gone down this road to many times before so lets smarting up and beat McCain or else we will be snatching Defeat from the jaws of Victory
And please don’t supply me with any of the Obama links I want to hear your reasons other than the fact that you dislike Hillary
[insert crickets chirping here]
The case for Obama:
1. Knows the constitution backwards and forwards – taught constitutional law. A president who will end the shredding of the constitution
2. Took a guaranteed million dollar meal ticket (president of the Harvard Law Review) and used it to be… a community organizer for peanuts. Unselfish, dedicated to helping people, sincere.
3. Opposed the Iraq War from the beginning – but is not blindly anti-war. Supports a national security policy that is tough without being stupid, immoral, or openly hostile.
4. Amazing charisma and speaking abilty combined with progressive leadership – which means he has the ability to increase American support for causes like civil unions, fuel efficiency, and net neutrality.
5. Has a better chance at helping us win Senate seats in Colorado, Mississippi, Virginia, Minnesota, Oregon, Maine, Alaska, and North Carolina.
Just five reasons off the top of my head
X – I would agree with you on most of your points except the following:
#3 I don’t think a speech someone makes qualifies him to be president.
#5 How does his being on the ticket help us with senate seats?
As far as the rest of your points:
#1 There is no proof that Obama is more familiar with the constitution than Clinton. There is, however, proof that Clinton is more familiar with the issues our country faces than Obama (see: any debate performance)
#2 People with political aspirations almost always take one for the team early in their career. Clinton worked for the Children’s Defense Fund and gave free legal aid. It’s all self-serving. In fact, no one has ever fully explained his work as ‘community organizer’ beyond coordinating a voter-registration drive (which, ultimately, helped him).
#4 There’s no denying his speaking ability in terms of a prepared speech. I would argue, however, that he is not very good on his feet. That said, I don’t see where he is any stronger than Clinton on the issues you listed. In fact, his vote in favor of the energy bill may indicate that he is not as willing to stand up to the oil and nuclear industries.
I’m not trying to poo-poo your list in any way. I understand and truly respect your decision to support Obama. I can see why people would be impressed with him. I just think he lacks the experience to get things accomplished in Washington – much in the same way that Hillary lacked the experience when she originally tried to achieve universal healthcare in the 90’s. Washington is a big, ugly, complex machine that takes years and years to master. I think it’s foolish and naive to think that an outsider will come in and change it. Virtually every election someone promises to do that and it never gets done. I think the only way to achieve anything in Washington is to elect someone who understands how to work the system. Is it a cynical pov? Perhaps; however, it’s based on history. I think electing a republican is better than electing a weak democrat. Look at the damage the Carter presidency did to the Dem party.
The committee broke the rules by applying an excessive penalty. They will now choose to abide by the rules and give each delegate half a vote. MI’s uncommitted delegates will be filled with Obama people. The result will be appealed to the credentials committee, but how vigorous of an appeal will be determined by whether or not Clinton and Obama reach a side deal for the dream ticket.
That is my prediction.
The DNC has really screwed the pooch here. They penalized MI & FL for moving up their primaries when IA, NH and SC did the same thing with impunity. It’s kind of difficult to take ‘the rules’ argument seriously when it doesn’t apply to all states equally.
David The committee if they vote the way i think they will will have shown contempt for the voters of Florida and Michigan by cutting their votes in half but letting the party hacks ( super delegates keep theirs at 100%) So much for the party of make every vote count. At least one thing will be settled by seating these delegates and that is the magic number moves up and Hillary has now won the popular vote.
X Striker you forgot to mention that when your guy ran for the senate in Il he ran unopposed the reason for this was he got a ban of lawyers to have his two rivals removed from the race so much for a fair election and not using the gutter tactics. Also who was his opposition in his run for US Senator. look your guy has never been in a real fight he is still whining about the ABC debate
What flavor is that koolaid you all drank? And how long before it takes affect?
mine was cherry. it went down nice and easy and kicked in immediately. 🙂
TT & Dom, Why would we list “Obama’s successes” for you two?? You are going to take any list we give you & shred it. (right or wrong….see above).
Nothing we say will change your minds….
You won’t read his website, you won’t read his books, you won’t dig deeper on your own (you both seem to rely on Clinton campaign talking points & cable news soundbites)….
And I’m sure you’ll say how my saying these things proves your point (somehow)…..
Of course we won’t change our minds. Do the points we make in favor of Hillary change your mind? Did you read Hillary’s books?
“It’s clear, this election they’re having is not going to count for anything,” Clinton said Thursday during an interview on New Hampshire Public Radio’s call-in program, “The Exchange.” “But I just personally did not want to set up a situation where the Republicans are going to be campaigning between now and whenever, and then after the nomination, we have to go in and repair the damage to be ready to win Michigan in 2008.”
TNR (TNR!) on the scene outside the Marriott.
Looks like Florida is seated with half votes and a deal for MI is rumored to be in the works.
“Of course we won’t change our minds.”- Dom
Then why do you keep going on & on??
We get it already….
And yes, I read “It Takes A Village” when it 1st hit the stores. And I have read her website & I have researched her stand on issues.
I support Obama because he is NOT “of” Washington.
He brings a whole new energy & new ideas & a new approach (read his book for much more on all these, no space for it all here) & his election would send a message to the rest of the world that this country has turned the page, no more Bushes, no more Clintons….The US is finally in the 21st century. (that part is huge for me).
IMHO, at this time in history this country needs someone who thinks WAY out of the box….to you guys that is total lack of experience….to me his “street” experience, his constitutional expertise, his sincere ability to bring all sides to the table and his way of making people who (really) listen to him feel excited to be involved in healing this country (sappy you say?? there is real power in that)….all these things, & more, convinced me he was my candidate.
There, I listed my reasons…now have at it….
Hillary protesters are occupying an utterly alternate (and healing-free) universe: a universe in which one of the big lawn rally’s speakers yells that the Democratic Party no longer is in the business of “promoting equality and fairness for all”; in which a Hillary supporter with two poodles shouts, “Howard Dean is a leftist freak!”;
CLASSIC!
Stella, honey, you’re faulting HRC supporters for doing the same thing you’re doing – refusing to change their mind about their candidate. Do you think that Clinton supporters should just sit down and shut up and embrace your candidate just because you think he’s great?
Maybe I want to send a different message to the world. Maybe I want to send a message that says that the most qualified candidate gets to be the leader of the free world, regardless of race, gender or name. I think that’s a pretty strong message to send.
How do you know that he has any ability to bring all sides to the table? What history does he have of doing that? He can’t even bring the Democratic party to the table.
Well it appears that you guy will win with the party hacks who you disliked at the start of this race I just can’t believe that the dem’s would take the voters of florida and cut their delegates by 50% and leave the party hacks at 100% THEREFORE NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS THIS NOMATION IS TAINTED
Also now that Obama is no longer a Christain what is he?????
No shit. Tainted by Clinton and morons like yourself.
Happy?
Dom hang in there just because they think we are pissing up a rope we have added life to this site before we entered this was a choir singing OBAMA OBAMA now we are making them at least respond to the weakness of their guy
Now if we can only make them act like adults instead of 2nd graders and respond to us with intelligent arguments instead of silly name calling we will have accomplished something positive
Yeah. Not going to stand on one foot waiting for that to happen. 🙂
The second grader response refers to you Jason
I ‘ll play your game for a moment get your head out of your ass
Remember Jason when we are all singing hail to the chief to The senile old man it’s asses like you who saddled us with the weakest candidate
Ha!
I think electing a republican is better than electing a weak democrat
8 more years of GWB how many of our soldiers sailors airmen and marines will be killed as result of a possible McCain win Can you live with that along with the other ills that have been brought on working people by these folks
IT WON’T BE EIGHT ONLY FOUR AND WHEN Obama gets to talk to the generals and they tell him we must stay ( that’s assuming he wins) he will not over rule them he has already indicated this Thur some of his surrogates the senile old man already said he will not run for a second term so 4 years passes quickly
besides it’s the parties fault for picking the weakest person to bear our standard
You seem to be worried about the useless deaths of our troops well we all gave our party the best hand in the 2006 elections Obama along with the weak leadership of Nancy and Harry have continued to give bush everything he has wanted on this war they could have cut off funds but didn’t I also don’t let Hillary off the hook on this
Go ahead continue the maddness with McCain
After todays display Mrs Clinton might be lucky to get elected dog catcher Her entitlement to the Presidency has ended
Andy you go after Hillary when your question seem to be the loss of troops and you failed to address that the Dem’s leadership ( if you can call it that) has let us down they have aided and abetted bush during these past 2 years and you are willing to allow them to pick our stander bearer
“Stella, honey, you’re faulting HRC supporters for doing the same thing you’re doing – refusing to change their mind about their candidate.” -Dom
Dom, sweetie, I am faulting no one….I am not even asking you to change your mind. In an earlier thread I wrote to you “let’s agree to disagree”…..
You & TT stated no one was listing Obama’s strengths…..I responded.
NO one expects you to “sit down & shut-up”…..really Dom.
You really don’t have to list anything for me. I respect that you support him. I really do. I see his strengths. I just think there’s a difference between strengths (the way they’ve been described here – charisma, great speaking ability, not a Clinton or Bush, etc.) and experience (actually having a history of making change or bringing people together). I’m just the kind of girl that likes something a little more concrete and a little less broad-brushed. That’s just me, though.
I wish I could see Obama through your eyes. It’s very much the way I feel about God. I wish I could believe in him – the people who do seem so happy about it – but I just can’t. I’m not being snarky or making an ‘Obama is God’ joke. I’m really serious.
you are willing to allow them to pick our stander bearer
Say again
watch fox and you can tell who the R’s want McCain up against and his name is not Barack Obama
As far as cutting off funding probably would have back fired you know the supporting the troops argument maybe Harry and Nancy learned from Newt’s downfall
and experience (actually having a history of making change or bringing people together).
Since when has Mrs Clinton brought people together she has been one of the most polarizing people in the history of American Politics
‘Since when has Mrs Clinton brought people together she has been one of the most polarizing people in the history of American Politics’
Wow, Andy, way to quote Fox.
HRC has worked with Republicans on a regular basis since she’s been in the senate. She is very well-respected by members from both sides of the aisle. Not so much with Obama. He’s pretty tight with the Dems, but has no real history of working with the Republicans in the senate. Sorry, it’s just a fact.
She is the Fox Candidate
Just watched Buchanon on MSNBC complain about her getting screwed
The R’s do not wnat to face Obama
If they did they wouldn’t not be HRC’s biggest cheerleaders
and that is not because the R’s have any love affair with her
Face it they know she is the weaker of the two